Maybe you other mothers could give us some advice on potty training our 33 month old daughter! She refuses to go on the toilet! She has in the past, both #1 and #2, and will tell you when she has went, but will not go on the pot unless you force her to sit, and then she screams bloody murder! She will even change herself (pull-ups) when she is wet! We have tried rewarding her w/ stickers, M&M's, even pennies for her bank, but she loses interest real quick, then we are back to square one...she is also VERY bull-headed! Any ideas? Diapers are SO expensive! We have even tried regular panties, telling her to keep them dry...sometimes she does, and others, she will stand there and watch the puddle forming on the floor, laughing all the while! Everyone we talk to says she is ready to be trained, but we aren't having any luck, so we hope some of you mothers could give us some tried-and-true tips! Thanks!! Joe

-- Joe (threearrs@hotmail.com), January 28, 2002

Answers

Did you ever try spanking her? Any child of mine that laughed while disobeying me would have her little rear paddled!

-- Ardie/WI (ardie54965@hotmail.com), January 28, 2002.

Ardie has a very good point. Many people talk about the terrible twos, but the threes are just as bad, if not worse. You are now locked into a power stuggle with your daughter, this is one of the very few things she can control and she's going to. I wouldn't try anymore rewards. I would suggest you withdrawl from the field of battle for a while, have the attitude (around her) that you could care less wether she was trained or not. Then after, say a week, very causally hold out some treat-say a trip to the playground, but say, Oh, I would love to take you to the playground, but only children who can use the potty can go there. Have her show you over the course of several days that she can use the potty on her own.

Yes, thats a sneaky and deceptive way to go, but she thinks she's winning, you KNOW you are winning, and its much less headache. I still agree with Ardie, that children need to obey thier parents,and do what they are told. But its also good to teach them to Want to do something and to accomplish that goal on their own. Let them have a little-not too much-control over what they are doing-I think it helps them learn self-control.

-- Kelly (KY) (homearts2002@yahoo.com), January 28, 2002.

Sounds just like Lindsey! Anything you made her do, she didn't want to do at all. I finally just gave up and one day she came walking out of the bathroom carrying the potty chair. She sat down on it in the middle of the living room, said "Mommy, I go to the potty now" to which I said an amazed OK, and she has ever since!!

Some kids just won't do what you want them to, it is part of their nature I guess! She was very kind and loving child, and listened to me about most everything, but when it came to mastering new skills she wanted to do it herself.

I would just not even mention it, but whenever she wants to do something special that requires extra money, just mention calmly that you can't do it because the diapers cost so much you have no extra money to spend. Say this in a matter if fact, calm way, and she will understand. Even 3 year olds understand the concept of paying for things. It may take 3-4 times but once it sinks in, you may see a big change! Let us know what happens.

-- Melissa in SE Ohio (me@home.net), January 28, 2002.

Hi, Joe, we are having similar problems with our 3 year old son. We think a previous caregiver influenced his attitude about the potty, as we later found out after we changed caregivers, that he would be punished for pottying in his pants and made to sit on the toilet for 30-45 minutes at a time by himself in the bathroom while he was there. I think this really made it a control issue for him. We have had much better results by not making a big deal about "accidents", but lavishing praise and hugs when HE decides to go potty on his own. Our current caregiver shares our view. It has really helped that there are a couple of older kids there, and since he wants to be big, he follows their lead. It has taken a lot of patience, perserverance, patience, and perserverance and he is almost there!! Hang in there, it WIll happen.

-- Gina NM (inhock@pvtnetworks.net), January 28, 2002.

I had the same problem with my son. I thought I would be sending him to school with a diaper bag! There really is nothing you can do until they are ready. Here's what we did (funny story, too!):

We were taking a trip to Gatlinburg and my son loves trains. He could not wait to ride the train at Dollywood. We were having lunch in resturant on the way in Georgia. While we were on our way into the resturant, my husband held the door for a man dressed in a business suit, VERY important and distinguished looking. My husband (who thinks he missed his calling and should be in stand up comedy) exchanges a few words with the man and then turns to our son and says, "Look! That is the governor of Tennessee! (of course it was not). "He was just telling me that they are not allowing any one to go on vacation to the state of Tennessee, and especially to Dollywood, if they are over 3 years old and still wearing diapers!"

Never a diaper since! Just goes to show, when they are ready...they will use the potty.

-- Karen (mountains_mama@hotmail.com), January 28, 2002.

Oh, I wish I had the proverbial penny for every time this came up in my practice! Forcing a child to be "potty trained" simply does not work..the kid gets upset, the parents get upset and after all is said and done the wet pants are still there for you to launder. I agree with the above posters...Please do not allow your 33 month old to mock you. Very bad habit to allow....I am not advocating that you whack the child...I never struck any of mine and they are not spoiled brats. A very small child can certainly understand "time out" with alot of firmness. Obviously your little girl is loving the attention this gets her..unlike adults, children often will persist in a "bad" behavior because of all that extra attention they can have. I often had great success with my patients when they stopped trying to potty train their child at all..ignore it 100% Change pants or diapers with an attitude of a chore...no punishment, no direction, no criticism, no pleading, no promises, etc. etc...change the child with a matter of fact attitude (like dusting or washing the floor)..NO attention for soiling at all..THEN, be sure to enjoy your child in everything else..lots of play and praise for other things she is learning to do: if she picks up her toys and puts them away..if she shows you a drawing she has colored....if she hops into bed when she is told, etc. etc. etc...she will soon re-learn that when she does as she is supposed to,THEN that attention is all good and she has plenty of it. Eventually, she will be uncomfortable with a wet or soiled behind and will decide on her own to remedy the situation. BTW, "encopuresis", a medical condition where the children hold stool in so long that they become actually compacted with it is a common thing with children who have been forced to be "trained". They never actually WERE trained, they just stop having bowel movements. Diagnosis is usually made at around age 4 or 5 when the child has chronic diarrhea. (the intestine forces stool around the impaction)..this is unfortunately a fairly common condition. We saw it increase drastically when more and more kids were in daycare..so many daycares will not take kiddos unless they are toilet trained, hence parents forced the issue way too soon and many kids developed this condition. Just another reason to back off, but the main one is for the peace and calmness of your entire family. God bless.

-- lesley (martchas@bellsouth.net), January 28, 2002.

Is this an episode of "soggy cookie syndrome"?m A name given to negative attention. If a child does not get enought attention they will creat a negative attention magnet so they will not feel left out. Ignore their negative actions, praise their positive actions, you are the adult.

-- mitch hearn (moopups@citlink.net), January 28, 2002.

It sounds like the potty training has turned into a big power struggle- one that you CANNOT win. You cannot (well, not without abuse) force her to go in the potty, so you are on the losing end. It would be better to drop any pressure and act like you don't care much about it, except to be MILDLY pleased when she goes in the potty. Just try really hard not to lay a whole lot of emphasis on the potty training.

Other things that will help- cloth diapers. Disposables are nice and dry even when they've been wet in, cloth gets soggy and uncomfortable. Stickers, stars, candy, scolding, cold baths, and varoius tyoes of bribing or punishments, don't work. I should know, I tried all of that and now have a 6 year old with a complex about going to the bathroom. It would have been a lot better just to have been patient and understanding, but, it is so easy to listen to thise who insist every one of their seven children were potty trained at 13 months old!!

So, just put her in cloth diapers, provide the potty, and let her draw her own conclusions, she will decide that it is what she wanted all along.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), January 29, 2002.

I too agree with using cloth, especially since it's cheaper. Rest assured, she will grow out of it eventually. Also, it is not unusual for children to seem to "regress" a bit, especially as they learn other new skills (vocabulary, for instance).

I am not sure about not letting a child do this or that (unless it is truly a special treat) because of being potty trained or not. The example of going to the playground was brought up, and for us that would be a treat, for other parents (who maybe don't have a big enough yard for children to play in) that might be a necessity.

Have you tried one of the many potty training books on the market? They can offer positive reinforcement, and children love to look at books just about anywhere--even in the "reading room", lol.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 29, 2002.

There are 2 things about a child YOU have no control over. What goes in and what comes out. Don't bother fighting over these because you will not win.

The only thing you can do when it is obvious that they CAN control it but won't is offer an incentive for them to stay dry.

With my first daughter it was, "No, you may not have a pony until you are potty trained." She was dry day and night and never had an accident.

Kid number 2 struggled with self discipline for a week to earn a goldfish. She called the deal off when I said she could not eat the goldfish. The deal was back on when I bought a whole red snapper for dinner. (yes, a very strange child)

Child number 3 wanted a swing as her reward. It took a few months but she earned her swing.

Keep the panties and pull up under your control and do not let her have clean and dry ones until she is sick of wet ones and asks nicely for them. Choose how many you will let her have in one day and stick to it.

Let her know sitting on your furniture or carpet with wet or dirty pants isn't going to happen either. She can play and sit on the linoleum when she is wet.

When she stands there and pees on the floor, toss her a towel, tell her to clean it up and remind her where her play area is for the rest of the day. Walk out of the room.

The point is to give her every positive reason to use the potty and make it very uncomfortable and restricive not to. No negative attention, no fresh clean panties or diaper whenever she chooses. She will get sick of the game.

Also, how are you handling going shopping or visiting? Put her in panties for these events. If she pees them in public, let HER be embarrassed, not you. ("mop up in produce, Rachel peed her pants!")

Every new place you go into, make a point to find the potty. Some kids want to pee in every potty they can find. As much as I hate public restrooms, none of my kids have died from using them. Much of our shopping and trip planning revolves around clean restrooms, still.

Have fun with all the new adventures of parenhood. Potty training is just the FIRST of many battles to come. Choose your tools wisely.

-- Laura (Ladybugwrangler@hotmail.com), January 29, 2002.

She will train when she is ready. She isnt even three yet. While its nice from a partents stand point to have them potty trained as early as possible its not a requirement of mother nature.

I know with my son, we were open about what happens in the bathroom, he would would walk in with me while I didnt my business. Maybe taking your daughter in with you, Not to do anything other than to see that its something everyone does.

-- Gary in Ohio (gws@columbus.rr.com), January 29, 2002.

Please remember you know your child,we dont ,you know how she responds to things ,do what is best for her. I am raising child number 4 he is 25 months we will potty train when he is ready.I dont compare my kids to each other or to others kids.Potty training is a hassle but it really does work out.Diapers are expenisve but they arent forever.I believe in spanking when its needed,and being patient when I need to be,and of course I believe in loving our little ones all the time,and letting them know so too.Also I talk to my kids ,find out why she doesnt want to use the pot she is old enough to tell you.I am raising to very strong-willed children.

-- willa (goodall6@hotmail.com), January 29, 2002.

I might add that I watched when my daughter and son-in-law had that problem with my favorite grandson. He DID NOT want to use the potty. And why should he if someone will conveniently clean his messes?? He got a few spankings and, gee whiz, he got the idea. Smart kid!

Yes, it is a control thing, but remember YOU are the parent and she is the child.

Next time, ask me how I solved the picky-eating,dawdling-at-mealtime problem!

-- Ardie /WI (ardie54965@hotmail.com), January 29, 2002.

Is there something that has changed --like a move, or a new baby? Does she like to read? Can you provide some new books for the potty? Can you borrow one of those little potty chairs--sometimes the newness of it may interest her.

All kids are different in this area and they do develop at different rates so I wouldn't worry unless she is going to college in diapers.

Put some of the responsibility on her. Buy the training pants or make some yourself by sewing a pad into larger panties and using rubber pants--these are washable. No kid likes to be uncomfortable. When my kids were like this and complained about diaper rash I would say, "this hurts because you had a wet diaper on..." and let them learn that dryness is worth it.

Let her also experience the work that diapers are. Ask her to get you the dry diaper and make her dispose of the dirty diaper in the garbage. It's a drag dealing with diapers and she should help with it--even at this age.

Does she have friends of the same age--you would not believe how having another child ask why another is still wearing diapers will motivate them!! No one wants to be a baby! Not saying it's nice, but it sure cured the thumb sucking and blanket dragging for us!

-- Ann Markson (tngreenacres@hotmail.com), January 29, 2002.

Thanks to all for answering! There are so many answers, it will take us some time to go through them all! We do spank when it is nesesary, but don't make a practi1`1ce if it...however, she is learning words, phrases, numbers, and letters at an alarming rate right now, so we have thought that maybe that is taking the place of her potty training skills...its as good of an excuse as any, I guess! We are just going to back off right now, and see if she shows any interest herself...the saga continues!! Thanks again, all! Joe

-- Joe (threearrs@hotmail.com), January 29, 2002.

My son (Ardie's grandson) probably could have been trained a lot earlier than he was, say 2 years old instead of 2 years & 9 months old. But by the time he was nearing three, I was really sick of diapers. So with a firm resolve, he went naked for about 2 days. When he hid behind a chair to go potty, then I KNEW he knew what he was doing and he got a "putch" on the butt. There was one more accident after that (which we caught later) and that was it. Been dry ever since.

-- Lisa in WI (llehman16nospam@hotmail.com), January 29, 2002.

Smart boy...takes after his grandma! LOL!

-- Ardie /WI (ardie54965@hotmail.com), January 29, 2002.

Joe, First off let me say, CALM DOWN IT WILL BE OK. Now that that's out of the way here goes. Your daughter like the trillions ahead of her is not ready to only go potty on the toilet. Yes, it is expensive to keep them in diapers, but so is washing laundry from messes several times a day. The thing I recommend is use pullups and the toilet. When my daughter was 40 months old she was at this stage and that was only 6 months ago. She had a sticker chart on the wall by the big potty. Every hour and a half I would set her on so she could try to go. If she did she got a sticker, if not that was ok. We still went through 3 or 4 pullups a day after the first month but then it started to reduce greatly. I think that I had to train her mind to sit and go potty on the toilet. Her brain had been going in her pullups/diapers for a long time. We all no how hard it is to break a habit! Anyway, after about 3 months she started to ask to go herself. We went to the store and she picked out a pkg. of Pooh panties. I told her that when she went two days with not one accident in her pullups she could wear them. She has been doing great every since, with only a minimal amount of accidents(maybe one every 2-3 weeks). It is a long process but I have found that being positive with her and excited about her being a big girl is important. Also, books in the bathroom make the transition a little more enjoyable!

-- Stacy in Michigan (dsparsons@lakeshore.net), January 30, 2002.

I agree with a post. If any child of mine stood there and laughed letting the pee run down her legs, She would be getting her bottom spanked. There is no need for such. I have trained 5 kids and if a spanking was required then they received it. This is a case when a spanking is required.

-- Mrs. David Orrick (bbincanada@yahoo.com), October 16, 2002.