Fight for the right to kick limp bizkit in the ass!greenspun.com : LUSENET : Freedom! self reliance : One Thread
Someone posted this at some metal forums. and I actually found it to be quite interesting/disturbing. If this is true, I just don't know how to react. I never knew just how pathetic the money-making machine of Limp ****kit really is... ------------------------------------------------------------
This was posted by Zeromus-X at the Harmony Central Forums. -----------------------------
** Warning. This will be explicit and long. **
Some of you may have heard about the Limp Bizkit guitarist search. Basically, the band has been "touring" the country visiting Guitar Center stores, holding auditions for a new guitarist to replace the one who left the band.
The deal is this. From 7:00 to 11:00 AM you can sign up for a slot to try out that day. The tryouts are from 10:00 AM to 5:00 PM. During this time, they take you into a room to play your stuff. At the end of that time, you leave. They call three to ten people at 5:30 to come back to the place and play in front of Limp Bizkit. Out of those people, one is selected to return at 9:00 to jam with the band, and anyone who participated is invited to watch -- a free concert, basically.
So I arrive there, with a copy of our band's full CD in hand. I'm with a friend who wants to try out, so I go ahead and sign up too. We get there at 5:00 AM and we're 83rd and 84th in line. Not incredibly bad. Free Krispy Kreme donuts and coffee, so all isn't too bad.
10:00 rolls around. The line is moving slow, but that's to be expected. We finally get up around the corner of the building to the front of the line at about noon. Current total time there: 7 hours.
Get to the table, and I notice there's a waiver you have to sign. No problem, standard stuff. Then I notice it's a three page contract. This contract basically said that if you play, you must sign the contract. Okay. No big deal here either. So I keep reading it. An interesting note. Anything you play can NOT be copyright, and can be used by Limp Bizkit in audio, video, or recorded form of any sort. Other big words which basically translated to the fact that if you play something, they are fully authorized to steal it and use it on a CD. The artist agrees to zero compensation and zero rights over the track, and will get their name in the liner notes "if possible."
This didn't sit well, as me and the guy I was with were planning on playing something we wrote with Starfront. So we sign it and decide to make something up. An annoyance at the very least, but we'd waited seven hours to get this far.
Then we got to stand in the parking lot for another two hours. We finally get inside at about 2:30, where it's another 30 minute wait for your turn. Current total time there: 10 hours.
So then we get the "rules". They are outlined for us straight out. No guitar solos. No playing cover songs. No playing copyrighted material. No playing Limp Bizkit songs. This effectively means that you're forced to play something that you made up, but don't have a copyright for. You may see where this is going.
Entering the room, there's one guy. He's got a mute button under his foot. His job is to make sure you follow the rules. If you break any, you get muted and kicked out immediately. So I go in, and there's one amp for me to plug into, and the settings are turned to "mud". It sounded awful, and was not pleasing to the ears. And it was loud enough that the awfulness didn't go away for some time. Then comes another fun part.
"You have 60 seconds to play. Starting now."
One ****ing minute?! I mean, ****ing... okay. So since the thing I'd been planning was two minutes and thirty seconds, I cut most of the parts out. Kept it under time (about 57 seconds), but it still sounded worse than a handful of ass due to that beautiful amplifier (hmm). And I leave the room and the line proceeds. We're told that the winners will be announced at 5:30. And that we are to remain in the front parking lot until that time. No leaving. Period. This makes for unhappy people. We're talking 200+ people here, plus any wives / girlfriends / husbands / boyfriends / family / friends which accompanied them. But what can you do? We stay until 5:30. Total current time there: 12 hours, 30 minutes.
5:30 rolls around. People are getting ansi. The band management promised "free pizza". It came, and there were two boxes of pizza. Two large pizzas. For about two hundred people at least. No cool points here either. Anyway, the clock keeps ticking, and it's 6:00 before we notice anything going on. Guitar Center management flags all their people and security to come inside to discuss something. They go in there, and the guy in charge walks out with a megaphone. After getting everyone's attention, the guy on the megaphone speaks:
"This competition has been called off effective immediately and will not be rescheduled. The band will not be performing with nor for anyone. They will not be signing autographs. This is beyond our control, but please exit the area immediately."
The guy then proceeds to enter back inside the huge glass doors, and two armed officers stand behind the door. They lock the building as the massive amount of people head directly towards them. After reaching the building, people start going ape****. Cops are called in basically a way to clear the crowd. After about an hour, most have gone home or been "taken" home by the police. The radio station is completely screwed, having brought their entire broadcast booths out to cover it. Everyone is very, very pissed. Me and the other guy stayed awhile to figure out what was going on. It's now about 7:30 PM.
FM99 is having a field day with it. They're referring to this as "**** Fred Durst Friday", taking calls in from people who went. But unless you've read this carefully, I don't think you understand what happened.
Limp Bizkit now has over 200 guitar parts, written by various artists around here, which are unowned and not copyrighted. Limp Bizkit now owns these riffs. Limp Bizkit just stole 200 pieces of material right out from under these guitarists' noses, myself included. If I'd played something off our CD, I would be ABSOLUTELY pissed. I *am* absolutely pissed. They have completely ripped off hundreds of people, and they're getting away with it because they can. They're on their way to Georgia, and the radio station here has given out request line numbers for the stations down there for us to call and let them know what's happening over the course of this event, to warn them. But people aren't going to buy it. They're going to go and get their **** stolen too.
Someone needs to beat the living hell out of him. He's an *******, and someone who doesn't deserve to be breathing the same air as a ****ing cockroach.
To add insult to injury, Guitar Center ran a contest where the winner would get to watch the band play even if they didn't play guitar. One person and a friend. That person also won an autographed Gibson Les Paul Studio ($1500+ guitar) by the band. She showed up after a near 200 mile drive to the area. Guitar Center told her that the band refused to acknowledge the contest at this point, and so not only did she drive three and a half hours for no performance (which she took her ten year old kid to see as his first concert), but apparently the guitar wasn't given either. All because the band wanted to be one giant collective *******.
If any of you know anyone who's considering going to these tryouts, show them this message. If they have any questions they can contact me directly. I'm doing everything I possibly can to make sure this does NOT happen to anyone else. It's not my stuff I'm concerned about -- our CD is copyrighted completely and legally -- but I'm guessing 90% of the local bands who passed Durst a copy of their CD are going to be ****ed. Many bands, especially newer local ones, don't have the money or know-how to copyright their stuff, and by giving it to them tonight, they just basically tossed them a new Limp Bizkit CD if Fred wants to do that. I wouldn't be surprised if he copyrights their **** tomorrow.
It hurts to look around and see hundreds of people get excited at the chance to be able to make something of their guitar work; to have a shot at being in a popular band, making a living doing what they dream of. Fred Durst and Limp Bizkit are taking that dream and ****ing it over. And anyone who wasn't there who just caught the coverage at noon and 5:00 on the news just think everything is perfect. Happy Fred Durst in front of the cameras behind the place, fenced off, saying how good the turnout is and how happy everyone seems, and talking about all the great **** he's hearing. That man is the true meaning of a music label representative. He's the perfect salesman and nice guy in front of the media, and turns around and screws everyone involved in the ass without having to take any hit in his overall popularity, and possibly gaining a **** ton of new music in the process that he's ripped from people.
Not many things piss me off, but I'm pissed off. I'm not the only one. All sorts of "this band is playing tonight at this place, and they'd like me to announce to Fred Durst that if you're still in the area and you come to this venue, you will be able to see what a REAL band is like -- right before the real band beats your skull in." This radio station is sick of the **** from this band, and so are its listeners. If this keeps happening, I wouldn't be surprised if some **** goes down somewhere really damn soon. If it does, I'll let you know.
-- Bob Knob (Bob@Knob.com), February 03, 2002
They had another contest 4or5 months ago to win some guitars and gear and it was the same rules , besides paying $20 to enter, it had to be original material and you had to sign over the copy rights to them all for a chance to win.I don't like the energy there and would not buy anything more permanent then picks and strings from them.They also take buisness away from privately own mom and pop type music stores that have some loyalty towards their customers, they use the (we'll beat their price trip), but when the other stores close down , they'll be the only store around and sell for just as high or higher then their competitors.Just a bunch of Pirates.What state what this in?
-- UU (Nowhere@wastenet.com), February 03, 2002.
And for that matter what country?
-- Ed Copp (OH) (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 03, 2002.
What do you expect? Limp Bizkit sucks anyway. The only one that was any good was the guitarist and he had the sense to bail. You know that when you sign a contract you can cross out parts you disagree with and if they don't accept it, don't do it. Sorry man, it just sucks.
-- (email@example.com), February 03, 2002.
Don't blame you for being very angry and upset, yet I must remark that it is never necessary to use or imply vulgarity to convey one's thoughts. Musicians work so very hard and put their entire being into their music, so undergoing a process as you and your friend did is a double betrayal by other musicians. I was in a band for over 20 years..we were one of millions of very talented people who were never in the right place at the right time, although we sure had fun with our music. I think you are on the right track in warning others to stay away from this band and their cheap gimmicks, although it would not be possible if everyone else simply looked at the contract and refused to play their music at all for these opportunists. You sound like a young person..I'm not..it took me way too long to understand that there indeed is no such thing as a free lunch, especially in the music profession. If YOU believe in YOUR music, then keep on keeping on..a "professional" band will NOT last long when they become so greedy that they sink to the depths to steal other peoples music. If it were me, I'd be tempted to travel with my band to the next LB "show, set up my amps outside on a public sidewalk with a city permit and happily play my COPYWRITTEN-PROTECTED music for the disgruntled crowds' enjoyment..make sure you have plenty of CDs on hand to sell to them..who knows? Perhaps soon we'll be hearing that your band got signed? God bless.
-- lesley (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 03, 2002.
Sorry, I re-read the first part of the post and now realize that the itemm was not yours, but copied from another forum..ah well..perhaps, since you visit heavy metal sites, you could pass on my suggestion? LOL..I do so hate folks who try to take advantage of young musicians.
-- lesley (email@example.com), February 04, 2002.
My email has nothing to do with me liking Limp Bizkit as I have to agree with Archie Enemy up there for the most part!
That said, the music industry is a brutal machine. I played in a serious band for 10 years and we had a bunch of meetings with record companies, but reading the contracts always resulted in not signing them....Two were serious offers, but the liability side lays heavily on the band members if the album isn't a raging success.;). My advice to anyone is to keep your motives pure and just play because you love it, don't let money or wanting to be famous destroy it. If it happens that you get a good deal and are signed "Yippeeee!!!"- but don't worry too much about it.
Lesley, what did you play??
-- Doreen (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 04, 2002.
I don't think it was the band that had the contract, it sounds like the tactics of the music center mentioned that held the contest, they had that same contract with other contest they've held.Bands have little conrol over buisness transactions anyway. Unless your a Mick Jagger or Sting .We have a store around my area that's part of that music store chain, they treat musicians just as bad as their employees.
-- UU (Nohwere@wastenet.com), February 04, 2002.
Getting a record contract is only one way of being successful in the music business, (and success is a relative term anyway).
With the internet, a good home studio, a CD burner, etc., you can sell your own music online, and also pretty much anywhere you're allowed to play (licensed street performer, or at the local county fair). If you're CD's are comparably priced to the biggies (what, $15 or so?) you will keep more per CD than the artists do. It is not uncommon for an artist to get $1 or less per album sold (which then has to be split among the band members), after everyone else gets their take (the blank may cost $3, if that), especially if someone else wrote the music. There was an interesting article on the Dixie Chicks and basically what came out is that you get so little off the album sales you HAVE to go on tour to make your money.
Also, you're relying on the record companies to tell you how many they sold, and their accounting. After Enron, I don't think anyone trusts accountants anymore, especially if they're someone elses!
A lot of authors have published and sold their own books through the internet, and places like Amazon (don't make quite as much, but the audience looks there for books). I don't know what the equivalent outfit for online music would be. If you get really successful, as some books have, the companies will approach YOU, because you are a proven success, and you have a lot more say in the contract, because then they are more in the line of "distributor", you would be hiring them to get your CD in all the major chains. Just a thought.
-- GT (email@example.com), February 04, 2002.
Doreen, I didn't play anything..I was a Blues singer..also did Summer Stock in Cape Cod when I was a teenager and..LOL, love this, was a singing waitress at a posh resort in Jackson, New Hampshire..those were the days! Something to cackle about in my very old age!
-- lesley (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 04, 2002.
THAT is great! I can only sing Country and lounge music...and no one really wants me to do that. Those third harmonies are the only thing in my range;). I play bass and percussion...or played. I still do sometimes but not regularly anymore. Now my favorite music is big band, and ambient stuff....mind candy music, that type of thing. It wouldn't be very bright to have bass playing waitressing!
-- Doreen (email@example.com), February 04, 2002.
To add further to GT's comment on the dollar the artist have to split with band members form a CD.I met Clerance Clemmons, the sax player from the Bruce Springsteen E- street band.It was after Bruce went into a solo folk music act and the E-Street band was broke up for awhile 1997. Clearance was upset with Bruce cause he wasn't getting any royalties from the 18 years in the band and The many albums he did as one of the band members, at least that's what he said .. He was playing local nightclubs and was getting $3,000 a performance ,charging $10 addmission .He'd play an hour set , then have a open mic session . People who came to perform at open mic got if free.I brought my guitar and 4 tract casette recorder for memmories.It's not often I get to play with famous band members.I did two of my original copyrighted songs with him and some other musicians.After we played his publicist threatened me with a law suit if I didn't give her the tape I recorded.I told her they were my songs and to ask Clearance if it was OK. When she turned away to ask Clearance ,I switched the tape in the recorder with a Blank cassette. She came back and said "hand over the tape we'll find you and bring a law suit against you if you don't.I took the blank tape out of the recorder, broke it and threw it in the trash.I still have the good tape , with me jamming with The BIG Man. Sorry for the long story but since then every time I hear music being played , I just see a buisness deal with music notes attached ,in my mind . Music just never sounded the same again since that day.
-- SM Steve (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 04, 2002.
I was going to direct people to the other part of my response to this same thread on another forum, but the entire thread was deleted, so here goes (at least most of it):
The contract in this case (while 3 pages long due to possibly ignorance and perhaps an impossible desire to cover "every" contingency) is actually legal and quite common. Usually what people see are one-paragraph variations of "you send it to us, it's ours, period." They are especially common in all sorts of skill contests (read the fine print), such as recipe, essay, and think up a logo contests. The hope of winning/being published is your payoff.
These contracts/rules are designed to hopefully prevent lawsuits from someone saying "I sent you this and you stole it" and yet having no proof but wasting time in court nonetheless. Imagine yourself being "on the other side", for just a moment, and you'll see what I mean. TV shows, for example will return unread any unsolicited (meaning usually not sent through an agent) scripts (The original Star Trek was a notable exception to this rule).
If you write a book, keep the copyright in your name, and also negotiate to get the rights back to print it yourself if the book ever goes out of print for any reason (sale of publishing company, they don't want to do your book anymore, they go out of business or go bankrupt, etc.). Or, bypass all the hassle and go into self- publishing, you can keep it in print for your life plus 50 years (for your heirs) I think.
I read somewhere that all the Disney copyrights were due to go into the public domain a few years ago, and that was what led to the change in copyright law.
If you have money to buy guitars/other instruments, and knowledge to play, you've got the money and smarts to go to the bookstore and/or library and get some books on copyright law. Nolo Press (self-help law books) has an excellent website with lots of good information. www.nolopress.com I think.
Bottom line, if you don't want to give up your rights, don't do these types of concerts and contests. I will say that the rest of the concert behavior was pretty awful, but what do you expect from a band with that name? English high tea?
-- GT (email@example.com), February 05, 2002.