Hello Folks,

After reading how irreverant this question was considered by some on the Old CS Forum, I thought it would be fun to run it here. There was another irreverant question too, but I did not want to post so as not to offend. This all came from a discussion on Freedom Self-Reliance Forum. In the discussion one individual was criticizing our Forum Guru, Ken. Justly so, in my opinion but, I felt that despite what Ken has/or is doing the the CS Forum has no reflection on how I feel about the CS Magazine. In this person's criticism, he suggested that we all cancel our subscriptions to CS Magazine and get a subscription to BWH, (Backwoods Home). I myself, enjoy both magazines and forums and have been a member of them all for quite awhile.

I did not post on his thread and would never even consider it a thought. But, what I read was so typical of the anomosity of CS Forum posters, that I had to say something to someone about it. Despite, all the anomosity that many of the posters had torwards Ken, I do not feel that it is necessary to condemn anyone, Ken or CountrySide Magazine for those past actions. I am sure that Ken is doing what he thinks is best for the majority. And CS sure is not going to suffer one way or the other over the fact.

What I did noticed mostly, was an attack on Ken for deleting Christian related material. The attack was seen by me by Christians. In all honesty I would think that after all that has gone on in the world with others attacking Christians that they would understand how much hurt it causes. Christian or not, I believe that it is wrong to attack in this matter.

I do not know the magnitude of Freedom Self-Reliance Form has with anybody else but, it is one of the forums that I enjoy visiting. Occasionally, I do even post on it. It is political and I enjoy a good political debate, as long as the debatee's do not start name calling and/or try to crash my hard drive.

I only hope that this kind of attitude does not infiltrate to this and other splinter-forums that have sprung from the mother forum, CS. As, one of the reasons I moved away from CS, was to avoid this very same situation.

Anyway, I do not know if I said anything that would help but, at least I got some of it off my mind!

And by the way.....I am a Libra!

Sincerely, Ernest

-- http://communities.msn.com/livingoffthelandintheozarks (espresso42@hotmail.com), February 09, 2002

Answers

My sign is wet paint!! I do not read self reliance/ freedom; the sky is falling over all the time. I would rather read MEN than Backwards home magazine.

-- mitch hearn (moopups@citlink.net), February 09, 2002.

OK here is my thought on the matter, I still get my magazine, I think it is inspiring!!

Also as to the "rules" on the forums, I don't mind consistent rules. But I don't like them to change without warning. I don;t like it when a heartfelt prayer request is deleted, but an offensive joke is left on.

I truly believe that a forum is srongly influenced by the moderator. I have many, many times told everyone what I will tolerate and I have found that 99.9% of the time it is followed very well. Usually minor infractions are from new people who haven't got the hang of it yet. Do I practice censorship then, sure, if I feel it is over the lines of good taste it is gone. If I feel it is a legitimate, heartfelt topic it stays. It is pretty much my decision and it is a fine line to walk. I don't want to offend too many people (but I don't mind of you get mad about a decision I make, we won't always agree) but I want to keep the forum "clean" and refreshing. so I don;t allow profanity, offensive jokes etc... I don't mind debate, but I don't allow name-calling.

So I think we are making a difference here, and can help each other and show that people CAN disagree politely and can give each other support. I think there are many trials ahead in this world and we are going to need each other.

-- Melissa in SE Ohio (me@home.net), February 09, 2002.

Ernest, you should have noted your feelings about the situation at the original posting. Yes, there are still a lot of hard feelings about the CS incident(?- I don't know just how you would describe what it was.) I hadn't thought it would still be a matter to be considered much after this long.

If you read all the replies you should have noted several things, 1) the # of people responding was rather small. 2) Few truly agreed w/ the intent of the posted message.

If you are really concerned about the infiltration of attitude into this or other splinter forums, I would ask you politely not to introduce it. Please consider this a gentle rebuke and a request. I would apprciate it if you would email me if you feel I'm out of line and we'll work it out together. I've always respected your intellect and I'm sure we can come to an appropriate understanding. Sincerely, John

PS- I'm a sagittarius. Heck, I can't even spell it!

-- John in S. IN (jdoofus@hotmail.com), February 09, 2002.

I do understand what some people get upset about. Like this morning I read two seperate postings on CS. One was a joke that I inadvertently clicked on (meant to click the post above it as I generally avoid the jokes there) and then I did read it. Mildly offensive about a preacher. Another was a very disturbing prayer request from a man whose neighbors lost their 4 year old son and their home in a devastating fire.

Guess which one was deleted????? Is there NO compassion at all? It has given me serious questions about continuing my subscription. I do believe I am going to at least write a letter explaining my thoughts. I just wish I had a copy of the letter that man wrote to enclose, and a copy of that joke as well. It is somewhat beyond my comprehension.

Oh well that is why I started this board, at least we can mention God here (all you want actually!!!) without being deleted.

-- Melissa in SE Ohio (me@home.net), February 09, 2002.

Agreeded. The first descent thing I have seen Ed post and it gets droped. But the religious stuff in such an open forum allows those with over blown religion outlooks allways starts a fight.

-- mitch hearn (moopups@citlink.net), February 09, 2002.

I know Mitch, some of those battles last year were awful, and you know they made me cringe, but a prayer request???? What is so offensive about that?????

-- Melissa in SE Ohio (me@home.net), February 09, 2002.

I agree w/ Melissa that if Christianity offends someone and that's their reasoning for deleting a posting, then an offensive "joke" should be deleted as well, because it offends me -

Heck, (oops - maybe I'll get deleted for that!) if we deleted everything that offended someone, we'd have nothing!

-- hmm (h.m.metheny@att.net), February 09, 2002.

It is not offensive to me, but I do not run the forum over there. The only disagreement I have to religion is when someone ambushes me with it, beliving they are springing something new on me and will change my life to their way of thinking because they think its the ONLY way to think. I belong to me, not to other peoples perceptions of what they think I should be. I will agree to those who think that the only way is their way - it is - for them; I will not shatter their reality, even if it is not my reality. I have destroied enough early this lifetime - the aftertaste is not good - I ask the same from them.

-- mitch hearn (moopups@citlink.net), February 09, 2002.

I'm not sure what y'all are talking about since I've only been on CS forum since about August, but Ive had a subscrittion to CS for many years. I seperate the magazine from the forum, so I won't unsubscribe just beacuse of something on the forum. However, I'm hesitant to post on that forum. (I do sometimes) becuase a few people are really nasty and mean. Its a shame, because there is a lot of good information there and I believe some folks are working hard to create a sence of community. I can see why Ken feels he has to delete the prayer requests- unfortantly, I can see where that would get out of hand, people start with a sincere request and then after a while others try to take that oppertunity to convert others to their ways of thinking-"Please pray for all the sinners on this forum who are not going to church three times a day" kind of thing. It is after all a forum dedicated to homestead issues-though often the postings do not seem to have anything to do with homesteading! I quess I can say that because I know that prayer requests are accepted here, in a much more graceful,recieving spirit. And some jokes offend me too, but may not offend others. One of the most, shall we say "Earthy" joke I ever heard-one that made me blush down to my toes, was in fact told to me in a very forthright way by a devout Amish Farmer! I don't go to other forums -I go here, CS, and Craft and Cooking_I don't have time! and it seems that often people just use the forums as a chance to argue.

Anyway-back to the original question-which was, if I remeber correctly-I'm also a Libra.

-- Kelly (KY) (homearts2002@yahoo.com), February 09, 2002.

>>My sign is wet paint!! I do not read self reliance/ freedom; the sky is falling over all the time. I would rather read MEN than Backwards home magazine. >>

I'm with Mitch! I can't handle that Ayoob guy who is always writing about guns and such on BWH. Maybe he's an 'expert', but he hides it well. Maybe he's just not a very inspiring writer, maybe I just have trouble with the 'militant' feel of the magazine. Which is the same reason I don't go over to the Freedom! forum.

Sign? I don't worship the stars, I worship the One who created them.

-- chuck in md (woah@mission4me.com), February 10, 2002.

Melissa, you've been upfront about everything. Very clear what you will and will not allow. You didn't lead us in then betray us. There should be a thread or two over on Cs where we the majority agreed on what we could do-that being- write about anything as long as we were respectful and not vulgar. It was that way for a short while then a certain group a people started 'disrupting' things, perhaps orchestrated by the powers that think they be, perhaps not. Then the censorship thing hit big time. The quality here is good, but what is the quality there? It all comes home to roost.

-- Cindy (SE. IN) (atilrthehony@hotmail.com), February 10, 2002.

Cindy, it doesn't matter what "the quality is....etc." All that's in the past. Let it go and let it lay. Dragging out old, hurt feelings and precieved wrongs is only going to make new hurt feelings and precieved wrongs.

Lots of folks who come to all the LUSENET forums now wern't around for any of that time and really don't know what the trouble was about. Our "explaining" it to them won't help. It only serves to make us look small and vindictive. Just what satan would like all Christians to look like. Don't play into the Decievers hands and have your good intentions twisted.

Take the high road and "Shake the dust from your sandals" regarding the whole affair. Remember who you belong to and remember "His Grace is sufficient". I hope you don't think I'm picking on you here. That's not it at all. I just sense a general revival of the animosity among the threads regarding this past history (not meaning you in particular) and would hate to see a return to those days. Sincerely, John

-- John in S. IN (jdoofus@hotmail.com), February 10, 2002.

Ahhh, the controversy still rages on...LOL! I also seperate the magazine from the forum. I am still upset about the non-religious postings; however, there is some great information there. It is just a matter of balance.

I like the Countryside Forum for the volumne of activity and the broad subject matter.

I like Country Families for the "family" closeness of contriubutors, the personalness of its content, and the fact that religion is recognized as being just a much a part of homesteading as is sun, rain and air.

I like the Freedom Self-Reliant forum because I think the government plays too much a part in our lives and I get ticked off about it and need to vent.

I loved the Beyond the Sidewalks forum, but they went private and won't let anyone else in -- even those of us who don't cause any trouble. Still can't figure them out (doesn't the term "delete the post if you don't like the content" ring a bell with the forum administrator???)

I love the new Barter Board just to see what folks have and think it is great to have a place to go to support each others ventures or just to swap things.

I started the Cooking and Crafts Forum because sometimes we just want to relax! It is non-controversial...LOL... although believe it or not I have already had to delete one post from a very rude guy with very bad language who went raving about how bad a rock group was treated -- it's a cooking and crafting forum for crying out loud -- where did he think he was...LOL???

I find it very diffucult to understand why homesteaders are so unacceptable of other people's view points. After all, aren't we viewed as a little "off" to the rest of our society??? Don't they find us rather peculiar for using doing things like using wringer washers, stocking up on a year's supply of food, butchering our own meat, using alternative energy supplies, building some rather strange (but creative, I might add) homes to live in??? What about those that live without electricity at all, use outhouses, or live in travel trailers -- or do whatever they have to do to get out of the city???

Seems to me it is all about tolerance and growing up and being adults. So what if someone says something that makes you mad? Gez, it is only in type...the guy isn't even there to deck him! So either read it and tolerate it...or don't read it and go to the next post. You never even have to see it again if you don't want to. It is about choices.

Why does someone asking for prayer for his dying mother offend someone. It is titled in the post...if you don't want to read about prayer..don't click on it.

I do have to say that I do get upset with Ken's inconsistancies...one guy's post gets deleted for prayer for his dying mother...but prayer request for child who died gets to stay. The child's death was indead very very tragic; however, one person's value is no less than someone else's. A loss of a parent for that indvidual is as much a loss as someone else's for thier child. A heartbreaking loss is a loss -- there is not big and little hurts. A hurt hurts no matter how big or small it is. Prayers are asked because we believe it can change things...if someone goes to the trouble of asking for prayers it is because they feel feel desperate for help...believing it can made a differance. How can that be offensive to anyone? But then again, it is Ken's forum so he sets the rules. If I get upset at him it is because I let myself.

If I get really upset at a forum..I don't go there anymore for a while until I realize that in the big picture...my friends, it just don't matter! I would like to say, Ernest, you have some great homesteading experiences and have a wealth of information to share. I have always appreciated your input, ideas and suggestions -- I even use them once in a while...LOL. Keep posting!

-- Karen (mountains_mama2@hotmail.com), February 10, 2002.

I'm a Leo! And I love this forum because everyone is different and accepted as such. I love the respect that is shown, and I love the common sense. I love the positive attitudes and the broad range of topics. I love this forum!

-- Dawn (olsoncln@ecenet.com), February 10, 2002.

Good points Karen, however many people do remember when it wasn't "Ken's forum"! Sometimes when I read throught the archives, there are so many good people who no longer post. I imagine we are all losing out on many great experiences and much insight.

I for one see no trouble quoting the Bible, we can quite from any other book on the planet, but if you put a Bible citation, it is gone!!!! I do think I may do as many others have done, and just eliminate it from my daily reading. Sometimes it is so upsetting to see what happens it isn't worth it.

I will keep getting the magazine, but I do wonder if they realize what a lot of damage is sometimes done. After all it is their name sponsoring it, so it does reflect on them.

One thing I have done though is if I see someone who looks like they would really fit in here, is send them an e-mail inviting them to join us. So I would miss doing that, as I think many of you have received and responded to that invitation from me.

I had to delete that same post Karen, so I think he was hitting everyone!!

I guess we just need to let it rest. Since Joel is back online at Freedom, I'm sure there will interesting times there as well!!

I hope we here at Country Families can continue to help and encourage one another with the kindness and consideration that we do.

-- Melissa in SE Ohio (me@home.net), February 10, 2002.

I think it's just about all been said. All in all, each of us brings a unique perspective to each forum we visit, it's just a shame that there are people who don't practice tolerance (if you don't practice it, you lose it, you know!). I also always enjoy your posts, Ernest please keep them coming.

Also, though I don't believe in the stars guiding our lives, as that is between us and God, I do know my sign. I'm a Scorpio (and I DO NOT LIKE scorpions - nasty little things, they are!). I've also been accused of being a witch (usually by my husband!) - born October 30!

-- Christine in OK (cljford@mmcable.com), February 10, 2002.

Ernest---- I will repeat what John in In. said/ as it is exactly how I feel!!!!

"You should have noted your feelings about the situtation at the orginal posting!!!!!" "If you are REALLY concerned about the infiltration of attitude onto this or other splinter forums, I would ask you politely to not introduce it here!!!!"

Thank you John (in In.)-- for the gentleman you are & saying exactly what I think -but could not have said it as well as you did!!!!! Thank for allowing me to quote you!

Now I would like to quote Chuck (in Md) as he also said/ just what I think & I can't say it any better than he did!

"Sign? I don't worship the stars -- I worship the ONE who created them"

I treuly feel like Ernest, you wanted to start something-----but have found we are all bigger than that/ on this forum!!! Thanks to the tone of this forum-- I don't think the problems that are seen on some other forums can be spread to this forum----as it is a different tone & different type/ & won't be premitted----by the biggest share of the "family" who comes here!! Let alone the one who is the "keeper" of the forum!!

Ernest--- I'm sure you have "positive things" to share with all of us- --- lets keep it to that--please!!!! Sonda in Ks.

-- Sonda in Ks. (sgbruce@birch.net), February 10, 2002.

Hello Sonda, I have been posting on a half a dozen forums for years and years. You may check all the archives of my postings and see if I ever intentionally tried to "start" something. I posted my thoughts about a unending issue and how it has leached its way into other forums. Nearly all the forums that refer to homesteading, self-reliance, etc that are on Lusenet originated because of Ken's attitude on CS. Now, the evolution of this attitude is creating contention within Freedom Self Reliance forum. If warning you and others of this situation is creating trouble, then I am sorry. But, to me it was a way of "talking it out" with other forum members to see their point of view.

As for your lack or originality on the "Whats my Sign" post. I got by your "tone" that you will not tolerate anything that is not Christian. That is no different then Ken's approach! Fortunately, everyone here is familiar with my position on religion and has accepted me just the same.

In the future please be careful where you place your exclaimation marks and how many you put at the end of a sentence. As, I interpetted you as being perturbed over my post and believe that I was correct in that assumption. If I am wrong, I apologize for the misunderstanding.

Sincerely, Ernest

-- http://communities.msn.com/livingoffthelandintheozarks (espresso42@hotmail.com), February 10, 2002.

I also don't think Ernest started this thread for the purpose of disruption, or I wouldn't have left it. Sometimes when something bothers you, you just want to get it off your chest with people you can trust.

Sometimes I get a little fired up and Mitch usually bears the brunt of my rapid fire e-mails!! (Thanks friend!!)

We don't have to agree with one another, but we can still be respectful to each other. Most of us have pretty set in stone attitudes about things!!! And won't change our opinions very easily, but I do understand the need sometimes to share your feelings with people who will at least consider your ideas in an open way.

-- Melissa in SE Ohio (me@home.net), February 10, 2002.

John, I don't dwell on the problem, I've forgiven just haven't forgotten. Being berayed leaves a bad taste behind, maybe someday, we'll all get an apology.

-- Cindy (SE. IN) (atilrthehony@hotmail.com), February 11, 2002.

Cindy, Think positive. Some day it won't matter! Today is a good day to start thinking in that direction.

-- John in S. IN (jdoofus@hotmail.com), February 12, 2002.

Actually John, it doesn't matter now, I was just writing some thoughts

-- Cindy (SE. IN) (atilrthehony@hotmail.com), February 12, 2002.

Well according to the zodiac, I am a Capricorn. Just have to look at the table and find out how my day is going to be like. Hey, don't laugh; it sometimes is correct. Now I know beforehand when I should just pull the covers over my head and stay home.

I most agree with Karen and the others who share her opinions; I enjoy surfing several BBs, and learn from everyone. Even though I may not agree with the questions or answers, I learn a different perspective. Thats why I'm here in the first place; to learn.

-- j.r. guerra in s. tx. (jrguerra@boultinghousesimpson.com), February 12, 2002.