My problem is this, and I'll try to be short, although I wouldn't count on it. I grew up in a nearly gun-less home. My brother had a gun that he hunted with on occasion,but other than that, I was always led to believe they were not such a great thing. Well, my husband grew up completely opposite and was exposed to guns very early on and has had a love affair with them ever since. So now, after being married for several years, we have a number of guns in the house. That was hard for me at first, but now I love them. We have 3 kids, 2,6, and 11. The 6yrold has been introduced to guns for a good year and a half now, and is learning to respect and admire them as my husband did when he was young. My husband {and now myself} believe that the best thing you can do with children and guns is to teach respect for the firearms and it's capabilities. If you make it seem like it's something {meaning a gun} really naughty that they should never ever go near, well, I don't have to tell any of you with young children that that will make them MORE curious about whatever it is you're trying to discourage them from!! We have rules about even the kids play guns {no pointing at people,etc...} and they remind each other regularly. We recently got a couple more guns, handed down from his grandfather, and I was telling my folks about them. They trying to be respectfull, but I know that it bothers them that 1} we don't have safety locks on them, 2} our 6yr old shoots one of them -the .22- and 3} they've never seen any 'gun cabinet' where our guns are all kept. Now, we do keep our ammo out of reach , guns unloaded,hidden, and the kids don't know where the ammunition even is. Now..... What do I say to them, knowing that I 'll never change thier mind on the whole subject, but make them understand that this is the way it is in our house, and although having guns in the house does make the chances of something bad happening more of a possibility, we won't be giving them up. Where we live is quite rural, and there's been several break-ins in the neigborhood. On a good day, a policeman is 40-50 minutes away should I ever need one, so you pretty much have to be able to protect yourself. I KNOW many of you can relate to that. With that being a concern, I want the guns accessible too. Is this anything anybody else out there has ever had to deal with?? With all the anti-gun sentiment out there now, we fight hard to let our kids know the truth about guns, and like I said, to teach them the respect that they HAVE to know regarding them. This question doesn't apply to just calming my folks, it's also: what could I say to others who question why we have them.? I know I've really got the anti's going on this one. But I can deal with that. I have read several threads regarding gun issues, but I haven't come across one that deals with this problem specifically. And I figured I start with the pros!! Ok, I realize I'm rambling here....I just need a few quips to be able to shoot {respectfully, of course} back at them to make them realize that there are far more dangerouse things to be worried about in our home- nail polish remover for example!! But also, that we don't take the gun issue lightly in our home. Alright! Enough said. Can ya help??

-- Nancy (heartsathome45@hotmail.com), February 12, 2002

Answers

Well Nancy I agree with your position on all counts but one. I definitely agree that kids should be exposed to guns and taught how to handle them safely. I am a firm believer that education is better than keeping them ignorant and uninformed. A long time ago, in another thread, I posted that my young nephews had been gun crazy until I gave them guns of their own, and they took a gun safety course and started shooting at a firing range. After the mystique was removed, and guns were no longer forbidden, the kids pretty much lost interest in them. They do, however, like the IDEA that they each own a gun, and won't let me get rid of the guns which they never even use!

I disagree with the fact that you keep unlocked weapons in the house. I think you are leaving too much room for error. No child, no matter how well trained, can be counted on to never touch a weapon. And don't you believe for a minute that your kids don't know where the ammo is kept. Long after you have forgotten where it is, they will remember. BTW- all of the guns in my home have trigger locks, even the kids' BB/pellet guns. They are allowed to use them whenever they want, but I keep the keys and supervise their use (and the boys are 10 and 12 1/2 now).

I appreciate that you feel the need to keep a weapon accessible, but in that case I would carry the unlocked weapon on my person- what good is having a loaded, unlocked weapon in the drawer of the nightstand in an upstairs bedroom when an intruder comes in through a downstairs door in the middle of the day? If you REALLY need the weapon, keep it at hand. If not, lock it up, because it won't do you any good when you do need it if you have to go get it.

-- Elizabeth (ekfla@aol.com), February 12, 2002.

A recent ad comes to mind, in which a father is shown looking at a picture of his little boy. The caption reads, "Jim hid his gun so well, it took his son six years to find it." Powerful stuff. We keep a gun in the house with our 10 and 13 yr. old kids, but it is dismantled and the parts are hidden all over. No, it wouldn't do us much good for an intruder emergency, but we only keep it for shooting dying animals anyway. I still feel nervous about having a gun in the house.

-- Shannon at Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary (gratacres@aol.com), February 12, 2002.

I dont uncerstand the "hiding" of the gun,, kids will go thru EVERYTHING,, and will find more hiding places than you even knew about. TEACH the kids,, learn them to respect the gun for what it is,,a tool,, what would happen if a kid just took one of Dads tools,, and was playing with it, Keep ammo locked up,, but not "hidden away" . Kinda remind me of the story,, (think it was george),, about the matches,, they kids KNEW it was not allowed, but because they wernt taught to respect them, they burned the barn and the critters up,, Makes sense to me (N O T )

-- Stan (sopal@net-port.com), February 12, 2002.

Consider a locking gun cabinent with a built in quick release lock feature that is well hidden and as intricate as a chinese box puzzle or heavy glass that can be shattered in an emergency.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), February 12, 2002.

Shannon's post reminds me of another gun safety ad- A picture of a little (maybe 5-6 yo) girl on a swing in the yard. Caption read (paraphrased, and I can't remember the girl's name)-

"Sally's father hid his gun on the top shelf so Sally could not reach it. Sally had to use the coffee table, a box, and six books to reach it, but she found it. Sally will never play on her swing again".

-- Elizabeth (ekfla@aol.com), February 12, 2002.

Their will always be pros and cons to the gun question only you and your husband can answer the question for your family, BUT if you are going to have guns in your house why not a gun lock. They are easy to install and offer a lot of protection for little ones. You cannot take back a bullet once it leaves the chamber of your gun so the intention must be the right one from the beginning as it will be a forever thing. If you feel the need for having an unlocked gun in your home then it needs to be in your possession at all times as no matter how much training and how much a child will promise not to touch unless they ask; you and I both know that sometime, some reason they will touch and who know where it goes from there. I am not against guns as we have more then our share but when our children were growing up they were in a locked gun cabinet (no trigger locks then) and my husband and I each had a key, yes our kids were taught to use and respect the guns but they were still locked up. Your parents have no doubt heard all the horror stories that are out there and only want their grandchildren safe and not have to go through the experience of losing someone they love from a gun shot wound. If you feel that you have the possibility of being broken in to get an alarm that will give you time enough to unlock the trigger lock and use the gun for protection if necessary. As I said you can't take a bullet back. Blessings, Sally

-- (mallardhen67@hotmail.com), February 12, 2002.

This does not address your question, but on the subject of teaching kids about gun safety-

A friend of mine took a 5 gallon bucket and filled it with red kool- aid. He let his son shoot the bucket, then had him watch as the kool- aid flowed out through the holes in the bucket. When the bucket was empty the son asked if he could shoot it again. The father replied that he could, IF he could get the kool-aid back into the bucket. Once the son realized the futility of the task, his father had him imagine that the kool-aid was actually the blood from a person who had been shot. After that his son fully grasped the concept that death from a gunshot wound is final and irreversible.

-- Elizabeth (ekfla@aol.com), February 12, 2002.

I know first hand what having guns in the house can mean to a family. We always keep them locked in a gun cabnet and the key where only the adults know where that key is. No kid under 18 could use one without a adult with them at all times!! Well my daughter who was a church going straight A student (Never any problems ever and even worked with kids to help bring them to church and find god. I on the other had never go to church and it use to make her mad.) Broke up with the boy she was going to marry and when no one was at home just poped the back off the gun cabnet with a butter knife. She shot herself in the head and her 15 year old brother found her two hrs after the fact and called 911. She died instantly so the report says. That was 3 years ago and still the pain is so great I can't even tell you. I believe people are responsible for there actions and my daughter is no longer here because of her's. I will blame myself till the day I die because I am responsible for having guns in the house. So just remember, guns are not safe away from kids in a locked cabnet only a gun safe!! If this saves one parent from the pain I have gone through it is worth posting. And yes we still have guns in the house. But I am more carful as to where I store them!! God Bless

-- Teresa (c3ranch@socket.net), February 12, 2002.

I have to agree with everyone that has posted about children and guns! It only takes once! I remember reading how a boy and his sister were home alone and they went exploring. Their mother's BF had a loaded gun LOCKED in a closet. well, the boy picked the lock and accidently killed his sister while examining the gun.

My next question is why do you have to justify anything to your parents about how you live your life?

-- Ardie/WI (ardie54965@hotmail.com), February 12, 2002.

Hello Nancy,

Tell your parents that times are different today. Security has become a necessity nearly everywhere in this country and one of the best ways to be secure from crime is gun ownership.

There is a crime committed with a gun every 15 seconds. Death by guns in violent crimes exceed 2,000,000,000 to 1 to deaths by accidental shooting. States that allow conceal weapons have less crime than other states.

Nations that have armed citizens have less terrorism. Years ago when Japan was surrendering to the US after WWII. The ambassador of Japan explained that they were NEVER really planning to attack the United States as they KNEW that over half the US citizens had guns in their private homes. Fighting the military and the civilians would been an impossibility!

These are all good reasons to own guns.

Finally, you maybe can demostrate how safe you and your family are with handling guns by inviting your parents out to the target range for some shooting action. Maybe, if they understand that you are responsible as adults, they can rest with that peace of mind.

I am a parent of four children myself and I understand their concern over you and their grandchildren. But, they may not see you as a responsible adult, when it comes to something as serious as guns. I know that I worry about the decisions that my children make and will usually intervene when I have doubts. But, that is a parent's concern since they knew you when you were just a child and needed constant guidance, just as all children need guidance. Once they realize that you are responsible, I am sure it will all be put to rest.

Sincerely,

Ernest

-- http://communities.msn.com/livingoffthelandintheozarks (espresso42@hotmail.com), February 12, 2002.

What a creepy question, but I'll try to answer it.

Tell your parents that you love naked triggers more than your children. That you cannot be bothered to take simple, commonsense safety precautions just because the lives of your family hang in the balance. That only several hundred children a year shoot themselves or their playmates with guns they find in the home and with odds that good, you'll gamble.

Make the argument that lots more children are killed in auto accidents, by falls or drowning than are killed by guns - as if it matters. Tell them you wish they had kept unlocked guns in your house when you were growing up, so that your luck and character could have been tested as a child.

Let us know how it goes over with your crazy, extremist parents. They probably are lost causes, but you never know - it's worth a shot.

-- anonymousforthisone (anon@sorry.com), February 12, 2002.

Raising children is all about teaching them the dangers that surround them every day. There are many farm accidents! Some involve guns, I would bet more involve farm equipment. It is our responsibility to teach our children to use tools wisely, safely and responsibly. There are just some things that are common sense. I wouldn't let my teenaged boys run a chain saw without first being there to teach them how to use it.(or more appropriately, my husband since I don't use the thing). We have guns in the house for protection, for critter control when one is killing the chickens etc..., for hunting, and sometimes for target practice. We haven't let them use them without parental guidance and gun safety ed. When our children were younger we took them outside and had them stand beside the gun while it was being fired at a jug of water. They saw that the damage was irreversable and violent!! Will this keep my children safe? Not ever any guarantees in life. Can't promise that they will be safe when they take the car out alone for the first time either. You can prepare them by teaching them responsibility. That is all you can do in any situation! My sister in law has a fit that we keep guns in the house. It is only fair that if you know that someone is anti-gun that they know that you have them. It is their choice whether or not they come to your house with them there. It doesn't change our attitudes on guns. Just lets our friends know that we have them. We keep one loaded, unlocked, ready to shoot! It has dust on it under the bed, but is ready if we need it. Which occasionally means an old possum in the chicken shed. If needed, for an intruder at night. The best prevention for ANYTHING! is to talk to your children but more importantly...LISTEN TO THEM! My opinion.....

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), February 12, 2002.

Nancy, I don't like guns, either, but I have a shotgun to put down cows. I wouldn't have a hand gun on the place.

But, if you feel your guns are safe, and your children are educated properly, it's not your parents' business. And you shouldn't have to justify yourself to them. If you have explained to them how you are raising your kids, well, that's enough in my book. They aren't their kids, they are yours. Rear them as you see fit.

-- Jennifer L. (Northern NYS) (jlance@nospammail.com), February 12, 2002.

I was brought up with guns in the house and NEVER did I once think about touching one. It really never did cross my mind to check them out-I knew they were off limits and I kept away from them. (such a wonderful child! HA!) Maybe I just had other things to keep me busy. One thing I think about now is that my children might be smart enough to leave them alone, but what about the children that come over to visit, be it a small child or teenagers. Lots of them have never been around guns, haven't had the opportunity to see what guns are all about. Don't know the first thing about gun safety. This is one reason I would keep the guns locked away. Just my opinion.

-- cowgirlone in OK (cowgirlone47@hotmail.com), February 12, 2002.

Regardless of education, gun safety and hands on, leaving a weapon of any size in your home without a lock, your asking for trouble. If your children are syuper educated about them, you probably wont have anything to worry about...but what about thier friends.

In California, it's illegal to have weapons without trigger locks. Ours are with locks in a locked safe. Ammo is stored seperately, and that is all in our bedroom, that is locked. There is no way you can justify to your parents your view on weapons, so don't even bother. My mother will never understand, but she at least has the piece of mind that everything is locked. I'll never understand why she has to give my children candy while they are there, knowing I disapprove. We all have our own reasons for things, and that's that.

Good luck

-- Wendy A (phillips-anteswe@pendleton.usmc.mil), February 12, 2002.

That is my point exactly! If you know someone that will be in your home doesn't have the same ideas about guns, then you need to advise them before they come over that you have them. Especially if you will be entertaining their children. For most of us here out in the country, we don't have any children in the house that just drop in. Ha! You have to want to get to my house if you come over! No one just drops in! Delivery guys can't even find it! heehee! A gun is a tool! The people out there that don't have livestock to protect or need them on occasion, forget one thing! Responsibility! We have to teach RESPONSIBILITY! It is NOT responsible gun ownership to have a loaded gun in the house without first realizing that it is your responsibility to protect untrained or uneducated people about it when they are in your presence. I have been known to break the shotgun down and remove the shells and put them in another place, when we have small children in the house for long periods of time. I don't worry about my older children with the gun because they are like Cowgirl above. They have grown up with it being in the house and KNOW what it will do or can do. They are not the least bit interested in it unless they needed it for critter control(they are older now). I liken it to having a pond. I would NOT let young children play around it unattended. I would however let my older children do that. You have to use common sense. Many dangers other than guns out in the country. Tractors, farm implements, bulls, awnry mama pigs, mowers, tillers, ponds, rivers, guns, on and on and on........

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), February 12, 2002.

I had the experience of my two year old finding and bringing a .45 out of the bedroom. Nothing happened other than proving to me a kid can find a firearm no matter where you hide it. A lot of places are giving away trigger locks. Some states have passed laws making parents liable for their children who have firearms accidents.

Even though you may trust your children there's no way you can conceive of all the potential situations that can lead to tragedy. Even making the situation as safe as possible may not persuade your relatives to change their mind.

-- Darren (df1@infi.net), February 12, 2002.

What I want to know is: what ever happened to ALWAYS knowing where your children are and what they're doing?

-- rose marie wild (wintersongfarm@yahoo.com), February 12, 2002.

Sorry A## answers, what is wrong with being personally responsible. Great, just great, another group who blames the inatimate object for all the worlds woes. For a group of homesteaders, why not let the goverment take care off all your problems. And take away all your freedoms!

-- Frank (Noway@aol.com), February 12, 2002.

Oh Frank....look at my post....Responsibility is all caps. Most of us agree with you. Read the rest of the posts!

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), February 12, 2002.

We had guns in the house when I grew up. They were for hunting and remained in a gun rack, chained and locked. My brother was really the one who enjoyed going out hunting rabbit in the winter. My dad hunted very rarely, but felt it was a reasonable pursuit. He made sure that we knew how to use them and that they were chained up while in the house. Neither myself or my oldest brother showed too much interest in hunting. But we knew where the ammo was and the key to the lock. I will never forget waking up in the middle of the night to hearing my mother wailing and the smell of sulfer in the air. I followed the sound of her voice to my 18 year old brothers bedroom to see her bending over him, trying to plug a whole the size of a tennis ball in his back with her hand. A .306 makes a big hole in a man even at close range. Even with proper training and security, a gun can be chosen as the means to ending a bad situation when the person using it is a troubled teenager dealing with a not-so-perfect life. And isn't that most of our lives? No one ever guessed he was that depressed. My mother bannished the guns after that. My father didn't resist.

-- Dwight (summit1762@aol.com), February 12, 2002.

I know that I will catch heat for this...but I have to say it....DOESN'T ANYONE TALK TO THEIR KIDS???????

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), February 12, 2002.

Sorry, I was so taken by all of this that I hit enter when I was doing my question marks......anyway.... I talk to my kids every day! I know what is going on with them. I know where they are at all times! We pray together, do school together, eat every meal together, and I certainly know when they are bummed. We take a walk and have long talks! I know that my job isn't over yet. THey are only 11, 13, and 15. But they are sweet kids. Bright, Hardworking, and loveable! Not perfect! Awnry at times! Please Please parents, talk to your teenagers! I know that most of us on this forum seem to be more actively involved with our children, but those that aren't.....It is our RESPONSIBILITY! to raise them and love them and help them make sense out of a world that is increasingly nonsensical!!!!!!!!!!!!! Someone up above said.....doesn't anyone know where their kids are anymore or something to that extent....I agree! 100%! Shew! Now I will get down off the soapbox......

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), February 12, 2002.

I understand where you're coming from. My mother is a gun phobic as well, and my wife comes from a country (Tuvalu) where the grand total of privately owned firearms is about 4. I personally keep all of my small collection in a gun safe. Crime around here is practically nil, and the odds of my kids shooting themselves is greater than the odds of needing one for defense. In your case, if you feel you need one for protection, I would probably keep one out, but lock up the others. They have trigger locks now that can be opened in about a second without a key, that I would probably put on my "protection gun", and then hide it. I've also tried to take the "forbidden fruit" factor out of the equation. The kids (3 and 5) know that any time they want to see the guns all they have to do is ask and I'll drop whatever I'm doing and show them. Before I open the safe they have to repeat the gun rules (for now, simply "don't touch"). I'll probably give the older the standard exploding milk jug demonstration after it warms up and start her shooting the .22.

As far as what to tell your parents, telling them that you need them for protection probably isn't going to help much - just make them worry about you living in such a crime-ridden place that you need a gun to defend yourself. Locking them up and having them see that you are teaching you kids to handle them carefully like all of the other potentially dangerous tools around your house (knives, power tools, cars, etc.) are probably the only things that will bring them any peace of mind.

-- Steve - TX (steve.beckman@compaq.com), February 12, 2002.

Tell them MOM POP I have a gun because criminals would have guns always and we need protection, my father was active against guns. I have three of them. And I am completly against gun control. Gun control is equal to lost of freedom... Check Castro,s policy about this. Ralph.

-- Ralph (rroces1@yahoo.com), February 12, 2002.

Nancy, As a mother of 5 boys and sister to 3 boys; get trigger locks. They will find the guns and the ammo, I bet they know where they are hidden now. I could give you a good reason for doing it but you already have 3 good reasons. Have a great day and may Godd bless.

-- Karen Mauk (kansashobbit@yahoo.com), February 12, 2002.

We have a gun safe and instead of a key lock we went with a combo lock. Harder to open.

-- kathy h (ckhart55@earthlink.net), February 12, 2002.

If you want to lock the guns up, then by all means do so. Just don't let that be an excuse for not controlling your children's actions! There will always be something that a boy can get into if he is allowed to do so. I have a friend who has 8 children and they run amuck all the time. She is a mess and so is her home. I have another friend who has 8 children roughly in the same age groups. She has well disciplined children and they are a joy to be around! There is a lack of teaching responsibility to the children of today. It is not a popular thing for me to say it, but it is true! Discipline equals LOVE. You don't have to worry about kids getting into everything if you teach them from the beginning that it isn't the thing to do. You have to start early and by the time they are teenagers your work is just about finished. Then you can sit back and enjoy your teenagers! Mine are the joy of my life. Are they always easy? No! But they are neat kids. I talked to them today about the suicide in the story above. We discussed it at length. It is important to know your kids and to give them boundaries. They will love you for it later!

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), February 12, 2002.

Tell your parents why you value the guns, how your educating your children, how you recognise the limits children can be expected to live with, and how you (hopefully) respond to flaws in your own handling of the guns and try to make changes. No one's perfect, your kids might respect how guns are kept but will their friends? I've read the answers, alot of what's suggested is law here in Canada. I'm not so sure our laws make anything safer, but they do make you think a little. In the last 10 years we've changed how guns are kept here but reading this stuff i think I'll get a safe as well for the unused guns at least. Maybe all of them, I'd have time enough I expect. Intruders? Get past my dog??? Not with a smile. Trigger locks are OK but one more line of home defence can't hurt. It's nice to see your respect for your parents concerns, merit so much thought. Your kids are lucky, they'll see that too.

-- Ross (amulet@istar.ca), February 12, 2002.

Nancy,

First tell your mon that you love her. Then tell her to mind her own business, that you are the mom now.

It is my personal opinion that all guns should be readily accessable at all times, and that that they should be always loaded. That would eliminate the whiney excuse "I didn't know it was loaded". An unloaded gun is a useless piece of scrap iron.

Now while we are talking about risk it is time to deal with the fact that cars KILL a lot more people than guns do. SO we should all go home and take our cars apart. Then hide the pieces in different places all arount the property. If we can get all the BAD things hidden then nobody will ever die...

I am very sorry for the fools who have an opinion but do not have whatever it takes to sign thier name. They are already dead.........

-- Ed Copp (OH) (edcopp@yahoo.com), February 12, 2002.

nancy, if you choose to have guns in you house that is your business and noone elses and you shouldnt have to explain you position to anyone.BUTsince you asked let me give you my professional opinion.im not going to tell you all the gross details, we all see the news.you have very young children,i agree with a previous person that they already know where the ammo is.children are naturally curious.when the get the chance they will "practice" putting ammo in all on their own.its like "cant wait to drive the car without mom in it" no matter what you tell them at some point they will want to just hold it or load it by themselves.let me say this to you.. LOCK UP YOUR AMMO. loose ammo,unlocked guns and children are a DEADLY COMBINATION.especially children that have already been introduced to firearms.let me say to you that as a member of law enforcement and part time 911 dispatcher, this type of call is the toughest to answer. cody

-- cody (urbusted@alltel.net), February 12, 2002.

I liked the koolaid in a bucket idea. I think you should have trigger locks not because of your kids but, the possiblity of other visiting kids. I think it would quiet your parents fears for the safety of there cherished grandchildren. You should really consider purchasing a gun vault. It's a small price to pay compared to the potential loss of life due to foolish handling by an uninformed visiter(remember your children may take for granted the respect you instilled in them for guns would automatically be felt & understood by another person)!

-- Katie S (cashcrop90@yahoo.com), February 12, 2002.

Since I only use my guns for hunting and not for self defense, I never leave them assembled. When I take them apart to clean them, they get left in the gun cases disassembled until I next want to use them. The children who are old enough to reassemble them have been taught the proper respect for the guns. I also use demonstrations to teach the younger ones what guns can do. Fill a pumpkin with water and shoot it with a hollow point and tell them that is what happens to a human body when it is shot. It makes a point.

-- Paul (treewizard@buffalo.com), February 13, 2002.

Hmm, I guess your kids "don't even know where the ammo is hidden" just like my brother and I didn't know where the Xmas presents were hidden. Come on, this is just silly. I was raised with guns. I knew where the "stash" was. I respected guns, but come on, in todays world, keep it locked and the guns locked to! (as a side note: there was, not too far from here about a year ago, three kids who wound up dead- they and their parents were homesteaders just like us- because one had gone a little batty and shot his siblings and himself. And, yep, Pa had the stash of guns and ammo "hidden.") This is a worst case senario.

-- me (Agunsupporter@Bsmart.net), February 13, 2002.

Nancy, How do you "love" a gun?

-- Susan in Northern LP Michigan (cobwoman@yahoo.com), February 13, 2002.

In the last 4 years I've seen 4 victims of gun accidents.One shot himself in the foot with a shot gun while trying to hunt,and because of the time of year, while he was trying to flag down cars to get help, people saw all the blood and were laughing but not stopping thinking it was a holloween gag.The other had his forearm blown off up to his elbow by his best friend, another took a shot gun blast to his testicles and blew off part of his ass cheek and the last had a 45 pistol go off into his shin bone and shattered it and has a devise on his leg that sends electric charges to the bone to help it heal.All four were raised around guns all their lives,and were no stranger to firearms.Solutions ? who knows maybe a computorized trigger that can read a persons IQ before allowing the gun to fire.In the last 4 years no one I know needed a firearm to protect them from harm.

-- SM Steve (notrealmail@msn.com), February 13, 2002.

I saw a car wreck this week, too, but cars shouldn't be banned because some aren't careful enough with them. Common sense will always be whats needed to protect us and others. Some kids will always need the protection of others from themselves, then there are those that are responsible enough to be trusted. Some of it is heredity and some is training. No one else can make the call for you, but you will also be responsible for the consequences. There is probably nothing that you can say that will change relatives attitude about guns. It is a subject about which many minds are closed. Just try to avoid the subject rather than debate a closed mind.

-- charlie (charliesap@pldi.net), February 13, 2002.

Wow.......I never thought I'd get this many answers. Thank you all for your insight. Teresa, Dwight, I'm so sorry for what happened in each of your families......I can identify with you Teresa, as I kinda figured the same thing out of my straight A 11yr old girl. Each child's different. My dad worked for years as dipatcher for the state police, so that's where a lot of his fear comes from. I know both my husband and I feel that a disasembled gun is pretty useless. But I feel 'convicted' to do something more with the guns now. As a parent, it's my responsibility {since this is a lot of what we've been talking about} to put my kids safety before my own personal wants of having the guns 'ready and waiting'. We too, have a nice big German Shepard that someone would have to get through first. I don't understand the theory of having 'your own personal gun' to keep handy in case I need it in a hurry! Seems like THAT'S the one the kids would grab! I respect my parents enough to know that thier years of living has granted them SOME insight into things, however i also realize that my husband and I are the final 'judges' as to what is acceptable in our house. With all this said , where do you start? What's makes a gun safe so much better? I'm not trying to be sassy, just curious. Also, are trigger locks really that easy to pop off or whatever you have to do?? How quick could i get to a gun if it was in a safe and had a trigger lock attached?? Quick enough after the dog has slightly mauled them.....??

-- Nancy (heartsathome45@hotmail.com), February 13, 2002.

Gun vaults get the guns out of sight from visitors, and are too big for theives to carry out. We're not paranoid here but we did add a motion sensor alarm to our driveway, really just to let us know a customer is here. Wireless battery powered and so far has worked very well. Another reason I'll get the vault is, trigger locks are a pain, compared to a vault with a push button combination. I expect I'll speed up my accesability. I'll find the name of the vault if you want.

-- Ross (amulet@istar.ca), February 13, 2002.

I know I grew up in a very different day and time,but we always had rifles and shot guns in the house which were for hunting and dispatching a sick animal now and then.My parents,and I feel very blessed for having them raise me the way they did,taught us responsiblity from the start and also taught us the consiquences of not being responsible.We learned that guns were a useful tool,but a dangerous tool to be handled carefully and with respect.I can never remember any of us 3 kids 'playing' with a gun and believe me I would have remembered.Also none of us has ever been on gov't assistance,been in jail,abuse alcohol or drugs,been arrested for stealing or any of the other things you hear kids doing these days that are not lucky to have parents like we did.

-- Gary (burnett_gary@msn.com), February 13, 2002.

Trigger locks are two pieces that go on either side of the trigger and come together. You have to lock them in place with a key, very small one, too. Most locks are universal, so discard all the keys that come wiht the locks, except for a couple, that you have on your person, give to a neighbor in the event you lose one, and in a safe deposit box, or taped completely out of site on the back of something.

You sholdn't feel guitly for owning guns. It's your right, and your children's right. Most people are biased about guns becuase they never owned them, used them, or only see the negative side. Guns don't kill people, people kill people, Never seen one walk into a bank unaided and rob the place. You should be proud that your teaching your children about thier heritage...that's something not too many get to learn about. Getting a rifle was a big dream for youngsters a long time ago. I'd rather mine want that than the stupid nintendo or sega games. those rot the brains.

-- Wendy A (phillips-anteswe@pendleton.usmc.mil), February 13, 2002.

Nancy all I'll say is that my 7 year old knows more about guns than most adults. She has common sense I'd attribute to a much older person. So if your kids are knowledgeable and have common sense, try explaing that to your parents. If that doesn't work send them a apple pie and tell them you love them anyway.

-- Kenneth in N.C. (wizardsplace13@hotmail.com), February 13, 2002.

Gary,Nan-- two people i would like to meet!!

-- william Henry Szall (billisaszall@earthlink.net), February 13, 2002.

Nancy, it is a shame you live where there is so much crime or the fear of it, that you feel you need a gun.

Please at least lock them in a gunsafe or have trigger locks, if not for your own children, then to keep you and your husband out of jail because someone else found them and committed a crime, or worse, some bigger kid finds them and shoots your children instead while playing. Just something to think about.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), February 14, 2002.

I can't believe some of these gun phobics. It's not the gun...!! It's the people using them. I also have a good friend who came home to find his 18 year old son dead...but he used a rope! Very sad and still hurts today, but guns are not the problem.

Here is an idea if you need a gun. Likely it will be at night when you need it so get a good safe with a good keyed lock. Put the key on you car key ring and keep only one key (don't lose it!). Put a good handgun in the safe. Then at night when you go to bed stick the key in the lock and unlock it. It will be ready when you need it and easy to get at. You will automatically lock it away the next day because you need the car keys.

I personally have guns in the house and some are loaded. What good is an unloaded gun.

-- marty (marty@alaska.com), February 14, 2002.

Thanks Mr. Szall! Howdy back to you! :~)!

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), February 14, 2002.

I think it's time to stop blaming guns for what's wrong in this country and take responsibilty for our own actions. We raised 5 kids around guns as have my brothers and sisters. It's up to you to teach your kids,too many parents today either don't want bothered with or are over protective. I have young grand kids now 11 at last count some well behaved and disciplined and two or so mouthy and disrespectful.I can see already what trust to put in who later on.The difference is how you raise them

-- Ken Brothers (wombat_12@hotmail.com), February 14, 2002.

So none of you as teens, smoked out behind the barn? Did drugs, smoked pot, stole your fathers car in the middle of the night, snuck out, had sex, snuck your boyfriend/girlfriend into the house at night? None of you snuck out the guns and messed with them without your parents knowing? Kicked the dog? So all of you are SUCH better parents than yours that your children are never going to have sex before they are married like YOU did? Perhaps you pray better? For God sake, we all raise our kids to the best of our ability, our parents weren't perfect and neither are we. You can't watch your children every second of the day, and as you give them responsibility as teens they will make mistakes. Please don't let the mistake be killing themselves! An old saying, one boy one brain, two boys half a brain, three boys no brain. And that is how I raise my 17 year old son. He can shoot his rifle whenever he wants, but not when his friends are here. He can drive the car, but not with his friends. He can have sex, but not.................just kidding... Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), February 14, 2002.

The NRA is a good place to start looking for answers, the Eddie the Eagle stuff is for kids. Your parents atleast seems to respect your opinion for the rules in your house. My kids were raised around guns, they each have there own .22 but they all started with b-b guns to teach saftey and responsibility That has taken the mystery out of it for them and they have done fine. With proper hunters saftey/gun saftey instruction our kids will be the future of our second ammedment rights.

-- jh (jameshill88@yahoo.com), February 14, 2002.

Thanks Vicki!! I knew you'd come through! I was starting to think that only neglectfull parents were the ones whose children were irresponsible with guns. We all know better, please don't think I'm picking on any of you. But I think most of us realize that you do your best to guide your children down the right path, but they DO make bad choices occasionally! My husband always says regarding the 'lock em'up' issue -"well, I never did anything stupid when I was growing up with guns, because I was exposed to them and respected them...." and so on . I AGREE that certainly helped {helps} tremendously. But I told him that he can't be so ignorant to think {did I say THAT?!!} that just because he didn't misuse them , that it would mean that our kids wouldn't. Hope that makes sense, I realize I'm rattling on here. We are VERY protective of our chilren in other ways.....why would he think that this is not an area that we may need to protect the kids from 'themselves'?!! I know he and I feel the same as Vicki and others as far as the 'hunting/target practice, etc.' whenever possible, including the same "ONLY with us around". So far-they've obeyed. So far...... So, my next question is; does anyone have any idea where you get a gun safe?? How much do they cost?? What are some good things to look for in one?? Do they make one in a soft yellow tone to go with our decor?? Hahaa, just kidding......

-- Nancy inVT (heartsathome45@hotmail.com), February 15, 2002.

Hi Nancy,

I did not read through all of the posts. There was always a .270, .30- .30, .243, and .22 over the door with a box of shells for each when I grew up. I did that until my daughter had some friends who had never seen a real gun came over and take down the .243. I was there and raised a bit of Caine. They had not touched the shells, but I realized that not all kids were raised to respect firearms, nor to respect other people's property and leave it alone, so I bought some trigger locks and a metal cabinet. Now the 1 unlocked rifle (.30-.30) is "hidden" and the box of shells are near by but not obvious.

You can spend quite a bit on a gun safe and it is probably worth it in this day and age. Plain metal safes can be had from a manufacturer or brand called stak-on they will probably be in the range of 100 + bucks. They are more of a locking cabinet than a safe to protect your firearms form fire and determined theives. Remington and Browning sell very nice safes for 800 to several thousand dollars. They are very lovely and of extremely high quality. Check Cabella's for some real gun safes and check the web for something less beautiful but functional.

So, in all honesty, I have not missed any stray dogs maurauding the livestock, nor any coyotes doing the same because I had to fumble with the cabinet to get out the .243. The Shotguns now live in the cabinet too except for the one hidden in the barn and in the house. Neither are loaded, but shells are there but not visible.

On the justifying part...well, I just don't bother, but frankly the rifles are just another tool in my mind.

My daughter was sorry about the incident and she knew better, but she did not know how to tell these boys because of the school social agony thing. When I thought about that, the gun case was a no brainer because it took alot of pressure off of her. It is not the same growing up today as it was when we all were more or less raised in the same tradition. One of the boys, I eventualy taught to shoot and he has worked for me too...a nice kid who just was fascinated by the gun...which he had never seen in real life. Now he brings home a deer himself every year.

Well, sorry to ramble, I had hoped to remain quiet on this heated topic, but as you can see I just could not.

Oscar

-- Oscar H. Will III (owill@mail.whittier.edu), February 15, 2002.

I can't tell you what to say to your parents, but I do have one thing I'd like you to consider.

I'm from Australia. You've probably heard lots of lies about the situation for firearm owners here - there is an element of your pro- gun lobby which thinks that telling lies about how bad things are elsewhere is clever, and won't work against them when they get caught out.

Anyway, governments here did introduce quite stringent controls on firearms. Didn't reduce crime, didn't vary the rate at which it was increasing - basically just inconvenienced law-abiding firearms owners. Shooters can work within them, but they are a massive inconvenience, and otherwise didn't achieve any but one positive result.

The one positive result is well worth thinking about though. It is now mandatory to store firearms and ammunition in gun-safes, in SEPARATELY LOCKED sections - in effect, separate safes. You can be inspected, and if you haven't done that you will lose your shooter's license, be banned from ever holding another, lose your firearms, be convicted of a criminal offence, and be heavily fined. In other words, it DOES get done.

Firearm-related deaths of children have plummeted. We're talking about reductions of something like 80%. This of course doesn't just relate to the owner's children, but to visitors who haven't been given the same training and have the same responsible attitudes as well. We didn't need these things as children, but it's a different world now - they are exposed to much more on television than we were, plus whatever's in video and PC-games. It is well worth thinking about separately locking away both firearms and ammunition for any firearm you don't need to be instantly available, and have within sight.

-- Don Armstrong (from Australia) (darmst@yahoo.com.au), February 15, 2002.