i need advise on sleep apnea. i have it and don't have insurance. i tried to get into a sleep clinic, but it is full for three months. Its also very expensive. i don't need the clinic to tell me i have it. i tried to buy the machines and they are such a rip off for what they are. they are very expensive. You cant get a machine without a perscription, i can get a script, but the machine in the states are high, in canada not as high? My questions are as follows

A. how long did it take you to get used to wearing the mask? b. do you use the water chamber and does it help? c. are the machines adjustable, and can u set them yourself? d. do you feel better now, getting better sleep.

for those of you that don't know. sleep apnea is when a person stops breathing in there sleep. and the body usely get started again by loud snoring. you become very tired and its very bad on the heart.

-- randy in missouri (rwybrant@coin.org), February 15, 2002

Answers

Randy

I used to have sleep apnea....never went on a machine. Lost 100 pounds and it disappeared. If weight is not an issue with you, have you checked for food allergies?

-- Sue (sulandherb@aol.com), February 15, 2002.

Go to www.google.com and search on sleep apnea. They have about 148,000 entries which use those two key words.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), February 15, 2002.

My dad has it and won't go anywhere overnight without his machine. He is EXTREMELY overweight, though. Seems like it'd be cheapest in the long run to lose the weight.

-- chuck in md (woah@mission4me.com), February 15, 2002.

My husband also has sleep apnea and it really scares me. I've asked him to talk to his doctor about it. I even went so far as to tape his snoring and when he'd stop breathing. His doctor doesn't seem to be too concerned which bothers me even more. Russ is also over- weight by about 75 pounds and that doesn't seem to bother his doctor either.

He is less bothered (or I am) when he doesn't sleep on his back. When he does that, the snoring is awful, so I usually wake up and ask him to roll over which stops the snoring and apnea.

Sounds like the solution is to lose the weight.

Wishing you enough.

-- Trevilians (aka Dianne in Mass) (Trevilians@attbi.net), February 15, 2002.

Good Luck Randy in Missouri! My husband had it but usually the sleep clinic is to determine if you really have apnea. We had insurance but the clinic did not show an episode. The doctor did put him on a diet! He lost 45 pounds and not only did the apnea stop but also the snoring. Walking several miles everyday helped with the leg problems during sleep. An allergist determined that he had an acute reaction to dust mites. Better health, better living! Again, good luck to you.

-- Nita Holstine (nita@phancypages.com), February 15, 2002.

try ebay

-- Stan (sopal@net-port.com), February 15, 2002.

I have apena and I use a machine. Question (A) It took me about a month to get used to wearing it. Question (B) I have the water chamber with mine and it does make a difference, I didnt have it for the first couple of years and had dry sinus's and when i got the water chamber which is heated it made things better especially when you get up in the morning your not stopped up for a couple of hours like before. Question (C) yes the machines are adjustable but you cant do it your self they have to put it on a scale to tell how much pressure it is putting out. just 1 psi makes a lot of difference, nothing the amuture should try. Question (D) Yes I feel better, no snoring, and dont fall asleep just a couple of miles down the road (Wife driving). If you have more Questions let me know and ill try to answer them. dale

-- dale (dgarr@fidnet.com), February 15, 2002.

My husband had it but doesn't now. I think it is a warning sign regarding the cardiovascular system, possible diabetes, weight issue, etc. Need to review one's lifestyle. Eating lightly at night helps. A huge meal before bedtime makes the body work very hard.

Lose weight, improve digestion, outdoor exercise (gardening!!), lots of in-season fruits/veggies. Bromelain enzyme (high potency) several times per day helps to clean arteries. So does cod liver oil or lots of fish. (Good quality cod liver oil is hard to find.) You can do it!!

-- HV (veggie@ourplace.com), February 15, 2002.

Randy, you really need to find a way to get the sleep clinic. I did not have insurance either but the doctor I went to was able to get me some assistance from temporary state medicaid. They let me pay it back over time even though there was no requirement to.

The purpose of the sleep clinic is not only to determine whether you have sleep apnea, but to determine how bad. The prescription is not only for the machine but the pressure the machine needs to be set at.

Once you have the sleep clinic, and your prescription, you can purchase a used machine from these folks. I wish I had known about them before I bought my CPAP, I could have saved 1400.00. http://www.mycpaps.com

As for the rest of your questions Randy, the machine will make an enormous difference in your life! I wrecked three vehicles before I acknowledged the fact that I needed help. (I knew I had it too and thought I couldn’t afford it). The turning point was nearly killing my entire family. The very first night with my machine was literally the first time I had truly slept in years. For the vast majority of folks, the vast improvement in your life is enough of a trade off for the hassle and discomfort of the mask, they are always uncomfortable, they look funny and the machine noise takes some getting used to. The added benefits are that with regular use, you are greatly increasing your life span.

I have an old machine, I think it is 7 or 8 years old and still in perfect working order. I have never tried a humidifier and don't seem to need it, although some folks really like theirs. It was important to me to get a machine that also works on 12-volt power, because I like to go camping and not always be tied to conventional power. You can run them all night and more on a motorcycle battery and for up to a week on a car battery.

Don't wait three months Randy, get a doctor to get you into a clinic on an emergency basis. There are lots of sleep clinics around anymore. I live in the middle of nowhere and I'll bet there are easily more than 100 sleep clinics within a 400-mile radius.

If you or anyone else has any other questions and you are not comfortable asking about them on a message board, feel free to contact me by e-mail.

-- Tis I (really_tis_i@yahoo.com), February 15, 2002.

I have had sleep apnea for the past four years. I'm now 53 and will have it for the rest of my life. On my last sleep lab I had 75 apneas per hour. Doesn't leave much time for sleep. When I was first diagnosed I went on line and read everything I could find and ya' know what... the apnea didn't go away so live with it. It doesn't do any good to moan and groan... yes the mask is rather uncomfortable.. yes it really puts a kink in the bedroom activities. Once the mask is on it pretty much eliminates any spur of the moment fun. But you adjust.

If you have true sleep apnea and you don't get it treated you are asking for a heart attack... stroke... or car crash when you fall asleep at the wheel !!!!!

I did have insurance to pay for mine and yes it is expensive for what you might think you are getting... The mask and tubing runs about $250.00 per year to replace... they do wear out. My machine is four years old and is very reliable. It goes everywhere with me on overnighters. P.S. Make sure you bring it as carry-on if your flying.

Obesity is not the only reason for apnea and diet is not necessarily a cure. I'm 6' tall and weighed 235. I'm heavy but not obese, was a plumber for 20 years. True apnea is the result of a weakening of the muscles that keep the airway open. Once the airway is weakened there is no repair short of surgery. Surgery is not a really great option either. The machine is not operator adjustable. The air settings are critical, remember this air is keeping your airway open. Too much is not good and too little won't relieve the problem.

It's not a great diagnosis but thank God that you have an opportunity to live a fairly normal life and get a GOOD nights sleep.

If you have any questions please don't hesitate to contact me privately... Apnea is nothing to take lightly.

Another piece of advise.. apnea can be very mis-understood so don't get your information from someone who's uncle... cousin.. brother has it. Talk to someone who lives with it everyday.

-- ken in Maine (Kenjan@pivot.net), February 15, 2002.

Randy,

I have had sleep apnea for several years. When I got my machine, it didn't take me more than a few days to get used to the mask. For me, the improvement in my sleep was so great that I hardly noticed the mask after the first couple of days except for remembering to remove it when getting up in the middle of the night. I feel so much better than I did before getting my machine. I'm not trying to be vague, but it is such a great change that I can't really describe it. I don't use the water chamber. I never really felt that it made much of a difference for me although I know it does for some.

I would urge you to try to have the sleep test done. I know they are expensive but worth every penny. It could save your life. The above posters are right, the sleep test doesn't just determine if you have sleep apnea, it determines how bad it is and the pressure setting needed for your machine. As far as setting the pressure on the machine, when the technician delovered mine, she set it to the prescription with the guage mentioned in an above post. I haven't had a bit of problem with it in the almost five years since.

If you do have bad sleep apnea, having the sleep test and getting a machine is the best thing you can do for yourself. Best of luck.

-- Murray in ME (lkdmfarm@megalink.net), February 16, 2002.

Uncle had it really bad, you could hear him outside! He had some sort of surgery where they used a laser to reduce the tissue in the back of the throat. So far, the reports are good. Going to spend the night there on our move to MO, so I get to hear for myself!

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), February 16, 2002.

I agree with the opinions of those above who have it - the ones who don't have it of course don't know how bad it is - funny how they know so much about something they haven't experienced, isn't it?

Yes - if you're lucky sleep apnoea (that's English language spelling) will just kill you. If you're not so lucky some of your family will go with you, and the rest will be injured. When you almost wake every minute or so all night, just so your body can get enough oxygen to keep you alive, then you don't sleep well. Then you tend to doze off all day - at your desk, it doesn't look good; driving, it can kill. When you're that tired, you can't concentrate either, so you can't think effectively; and if you're doing physical work, your reflexes are shot. Overweight can be a contributing factor, but my father and his sons suffer from it regardless of weight.

For those who don't know, sleep apnoea (apnea in your case) is usually caused by a "long floppy soft palate" (my doctor's words) flopping down and closing the airway. No air - you stop breathing. After a while, your body more-or-less almost wakes, blows the stale air out of your lungs (BIG snore as the soft palate vibrates to the passing air), then you breathe in fresh air (possibly with a snort as the direction of air movement reverses).

Yes. I use the CPAP (Constant Pulmonary Airway Pressure) machine. These machines put a higher air pressure than the surrounding air into your airway - high enough to stop the airway flopping closed. Regardless of whether or not you know you have sleep apnoea, the sleep test determines HOW MUCH pressure is enough to do the job for you. I've heard of a newer model CPAP machine which will self-adjust the pressure to keep the air flowing, but I haven't seen it. I've had a broken nose, and have somewhat obstructed nasal airways, so they prescribed the one with the humidifier chamber for me. I agree with others above - the first time you sleep with a properly adjusted CPAP machine may be the first time you've really had a restful night's sleep in years. It only took me a couple of nights to get used to the mask and air pressure - the big adjustment is that you have to keep your mouth shut - otherwise the higher air pressure coming through your nose just blows straight out your mouth, sucking the air out of your lungs as it does so. Your sleeping-companion will probably LOVE this - with your mouth closed, you CAN't snore anyway. In fact, the constant low noise of a CPAP machine is not really noticable - like sleeping with a fan on - and MUCH quieter than snoring. This really doesn't take an effort to adjust to - it's automatic - you just do what lets you breathe. As I said, first night will be better sleep than you've had in years, and you'll be completely adjusted in just days (or nights) - in my case two.

P.S. Some of those masks are built very flimsy. Almost as if they wanted you to break them and buy new ones - that couldn't be the case, could it? If you can, do some shopping around to find a robust model, and find a case which will hold everything without letting it be bashed around while travelling. Also, by all means look at second- hand - sure, if it's second hand the previous owner has probably died, but it's a lot cheaper to buy new filters, hose, mask and humidifier chamber than it is to buy a whole new CPAP machine. If cheap second-hand makes the difference between you having one or not, then the fact that the previous owner died (or upgraded) could save YOUR life.

-- Don Armstrong (from Australia) (darmst@yahoo.com.au), February 16, 2002.

Sleep apnea can be very dangerous. What happens is you stop breathing for periods of time and if not treated can e very serious. My husband has it and uses the c-pap machine, he also uses oxygen with it. He had a tumor removed from the back of his throat and because of the scar tissue and all his breathing tube is small and he has problems when he sleeps. Thus, he also needs a little oxygen while sleeping. But, you should have this checked out as soon as possible. My husband does use water with his as it is too dry. He got used to it right off and I am so used to the sound that if the power goes out during the night I wake up because the noise has stopped. Ask you doctor where you can get this checked out he should know someplace to get it done. I know it is hard when you don't have insurance but they can work something out.

-- Irene Burt (renienorm@aol.com), February 16, 2002.

Check out that mycpaps.com site -- that puts those machine in the realm of the possible for us uninsured people -- THANK YOU!

The other way apneae can kill you is your wife will go insane, awakened night after night by your nuclear snores, laying listening for your next breath (like the proverbial shoe to drop, and she will take her pillow and SMOTHER THE MONSTER!! No court would convict her...

-- snoozy (bunny@northsound.net), February 16, 2002.

Randy, I had sleep apnea about 7 years ago. Do not have it anymore. I have a machine that I would part with reasonable but you will need to go to the sleep clinic to find out how to set it. At least they told me it would need to be set by a Dr. if you are interested you can e-mail me. You asked how long it took to get used to yhe machine/mask. It took me about 30 minutes, really. Slept like a baby from then on.

-- Dave (drcomer@rr1.net), February 16, 2002.

I have a zillion more questions. Why is the clinics so high and why are the machines so high. because they know we need it. i have seen the machines, there is not much to them. they know that the insurance company will pay it. if i got a machine, could i get a doc to set it.

-- randy in missouri (rwybrant@coin.org), February 16, 2002.

You have lots of folks on the hook here Randy so go ahead and ask your zillion questions.

As for the cost of sleep clinics... My night cost a cool $1600.00. For that I was given a dandy pair a pajamas that didn't close in the back and treated to a good hour being attached to what seemed like 100 electrical leads and sensors, after which I was invited to check out a supposedly homey looking bed and invited to go to sleep. This in a noisy hospital full of all kinds of strange scents, bustling people and cameras pointing at you from all directions. I thought I'd never fall asleep.

What you are paying for is the doctor's 12 plus year education, his technician that watches you constantly thoughout the night, the receptionist that took all the information as you walked in the door, and don't forget the security guard standing around drinking coffee keeping you safe from all comers. Heck, when you get right down to it, how about the wages of the person that will come into your room the next day and take all your bedding to the laundry and repace it for the next person. Don't forget the custodian that had to mop up the dribbles from around the toilet where you missed.

You are paying for all that fancy equipment with the beeps and blinking lights, the gallon of acetone they used to clean the oil off your skin so they could attach all those leads.

There's a lot of overhead involved in a hospital setting Randy. I'm not defending the ridiculously expensive medical systems we have but maybe you can understand that a lot of it goes towards wages.

Try putting on your homesteader/thriftiness mode if you, like many of us are without insurance. I was able to swap labor for a large hospital bill one of my kids racked up. I had to wait until they had turned it over to their collections department before they would even consider it, and then convince the collections lady that the only way in hell they were ever going to get paid was to accept my offer.

Keep in mind though, that they probably don't get a whole lot of offers of chickens or labor so you might look around and get some ideas of projects needing done before you make the proposal.

I spent four months worth of time replacing windows in our hospital with more energy efficient ones. As an added bonus, they let me have all the old windows that I was able to swap to all my neighbors. I can still drive around the county and see greenhouses and cold frames made out of all those discarded hospital windows.

-- Tis I (really_tis_i@yahoo.com), February 17, 2002.

I noticed that my apnea increases with alergies. I tried taking an asprin before bed to help with blood flow and this seemed to help.

But the best non-medicated, non-mechanical help that I get is from allergy relief by avoiding the things that make my sinus swell. This includes down comforter, feather pillows, dust, etc.

I make sure I take a good hot shower before bed if I have been in any dusty situations or around mold.

-- Neal Van Milligen (CAVM@AOL.com), February 17, 2002.

Randy, I have been using a cpap for my apnea (there are two types: Central and Obstructive, I have both) for 18 years this month. The obstructive variety is caused by airway collapse and the central variety has to do with a failure of your central nervous system not sending the message to the breathing center. The second kind is what kills kids and is also known as Sudden Infant Death Syndrome. Most of we with central sleep apnea don't survive childhood. That's why some people get rid of it when they lose weight and some don't. The most frequently diagnosed folks are men because their wives complain and they will eventually get help or divorced. A smaller percentage are Women(mostly post menopausal), the vast majority of us are overweight and middleaged or better. There are a few options other than the cpap, but cpap is about the least invasive. Permanent trachs will solve the problem, because it bypasses the neck, the palate, the nose and the tongue. There are laser or old fashioned surgeries such as the UPP (Uvuvual, Palatial Pharangectomy) sometimes referred to as the roto-rooter (bye, bye the thingie at the back of your troat), correction to deviated septums, a dental appliance your dentist can scalp you for (see study in the 80's at UCLA), or an over the counter bite guard that will hold your teeth together with the lower jaw slightly further extended and keep your mouth closed (under $20 if you can find them). Someone already answered the stuff about the need for a sleep study, how long etc.,.... There are self titrating models now, but alas, they all require expert assistance. Do watch out for Diabetes, many of us develop it, do consider this condition chronic and degenerative. Unless you get an auto adjusting model, you will have to be checked every 2-3 years. There are some new options with delivering the air. One guy developed a thingie that you hold in your teeth and you can find him on the net, there are also things called nasal pillows, haven't used one of them myself, watch out for morning, frontal headaches, irritability, muzzimindedness and short term memory problems. If you start to have any of these, your sleep system is in need of adjustment. Also try not to get over tired, drink alcohol four hours before bed and you may find that naps in the recliner will help keep you fueled during the day. In my family the subject of snoring was considered 'indelicate' but really, it's no joke! One of the pioneers in the field suggested to me that I sew tennis balls into my pj s between the shoulders to keep me off my back. Be well and I hope you've gotten this problem solved by now.

-- Melinda Mathews (dahemmer@earthlink.net), May 04, 2002.