FORUM TO END ON MARCH 1ST, 2002 UNLESS...

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Countryside : One Thread

FORUM TO END ON MARCH 1ST, 2002 UNLESS…..

Countryside Publications (publishers of Countryside and Small Stock Journal) has decided to terminate the forum unless someone volunteers to take over full and complete responsibility for it. This means they will have the full range of responsibilities, from determining forum policies to housekeeping.

Basic reason is the forum has never been an income generator for Countryside. It was started with the hope it would entice people to subscribe, but the number who do so are offset by those who cancel after becoming upset at something on the forum. Plus, each time the forum server goes down, Dave has to answer phone calls or e-mails when there is nothing he could do about it except wait for it to come up again. Also, he has to deal with people complaining, fairly often, about why certain threads were deleted while others were allowed to stay, forum censorship or a perceived anti-Christian orientation by forum management. As he has said, the problem is people cannot agree to disagree agreeably. It simply became not worth the hassle any longer, particularly when the gut feeling is less than half of participants even subscribe to the publication.

Plus, Countryside Publications has just picked up two additional publications, Dairy Goat Journal and Sheep!. This will keep Dave busy for the foreseeable future as he works to improve and promote them.

Compounding, and possibly forcing, the decision is I no longer desire to be the assistant monitor/administrator/housekeeper/referee. I took over the responsibility as a personal favor for the Belanger family after Steve Belanger went back to his old employment. When I first started it took maybe an hour a day to do housekeeping, then it grew to 1 1/4 hours, then 1 1/2 hours, then 1 3/4 hours and now about two hours a day. One day I took my afternoon nap. Upon arising, I checked the forum and 12 new threads had been posted in that period of time. It has ceased to be fun, and when a volunteer activity ceases to be fun, it is time to move on.

(To give you an example of time drain, before someone posts a new thread/question, they are requested to read some directions. Among them are the need to make titles descriptive of contents and to place it in a category. Probably less than 50% do both and some do neither. Heck, we have some long time participants who apparently have never assigned a category. After a while you just flat out get tired of asking.)

No later than after February 28, 2002, Countryside Publications will have no direct or indirect involvement in the forum whatever happens. If continued, the name will be changed from Countryside to something like Country Forum or Homesteading Today. It cannot continue to be Countryside as that name is copyrighted.

Thus, for the forum to continue, someone needs to step forward. However, before you volunteer, consider the time and effort involved. While you may get ATTA BOYS, one AH SHIT pretty well wipes them out. You will quickly find you cannot be everything to everyone and when you step in to provide guidelines, both sides will have at you. Plus, you will have the trolls and vandals to deal with. Look at it this way: at an average time requirement of two hours a day, or 14 hours a week, you are basically working for two days a week free. But then, it’s a work-at-home opportunity which probably pays as well as most.

To take over administration you will need a valid Internet address. Perhaps a separate free account can be set up.

Right now the forum has over 15,700 threads and 140,700 posts recorded against it. At the rate it is growing, it appears in another twelve months there would be 25,000 threads and 200,000 posts.

If you are interested in this responsibility, send me a mini-resume just stating why you think you would be a suitable administrator for the forum no later than February 22, 2002. I will consolidate and forward them to Dave with a recommendation. The final decision is Dave’s. (Remember the saying about being careful what you ask for...)

Dave explored several options prior to this action, but none worked out.

Please don’t go bothering Dave. The decision has been made and is not reversible on the part of either of us.

I will be available for a reasonable period of time to bring a new administrator up to speed on housekeeping. It’s not complicated.

Ken Scharabok

-------------------------------------------------

Now, to try to answer anticipated questions in advance:

Would you consider passing the hat occasionally to pay someone to administer it? NO! That would be yet another administrative headache. They would basically become a Countryside Publishing employee.

What if we all agreed to agree with the forum’s well-stated policy on religious and political threads? Been there, done that, the resolve doesn’t last long. We are long past that option.

What happens if no one wants the administrator job or no suitable candidates apply? The forum will be deleted (including the archives) on March 1, 2002.

What about the archives? There has been a recent thread on how to download them on your own and Chuck is making them available on CD for a very reasonable price. See the Forum Related category.

What about future Lusenet support? Go to www.greenspun.com. On that page you will see where Phil Greenspun makes a commitment not only to continue Lusenet support, but to enhance it. (Also note someday they may start charging for support.) It is probably 98% reliable now. Most of the downtime is connected with the server being physically located away from their offices, so they have to have someone make a special trip to reset it.

I can’t believe you are doing this! Why so suddenly? It has been building for several months. Matters finally came to a head. Consider it is a divorce over unreconsilable differences.

Don’t you care about what happens to the forum in the future? Probably no more than being concerned about what an ex- does with the rest of their life.

What do you see happening to the forum under a new administrator? This is my personal opinion only. Unless the new administrator takes full and firm control from the start, the forum will self-destruct within a year, if that long.

Are there alternative forums which are similar? There are probably more, but some are www.backwoodshome.com, www.countrylife.net and, on the Lusenet system, Country Families, Freedom and Self-reliance, The Singletree, Barter Post, Cooking and Crafts, Rabbits For Profit and Dairy Goats. I’ve probably left out more.

What if the new administrator wanted to make it password controlled with a subscription from participants? That would be an option for them; however, I doubt it would be viable. They would cut off their new blood.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), February 17, 2002

Answers

I've seen this coming for a long, long time! Ken, I don't blame you for stepping aside as this has been such a thank-less job. As for the Belangers decision to terminate the forum, it doesn't surprise me one bit. They're such a hard working family that they really don't need any more hassles.

Why do I have the song "For The Good Times" by Ray Price running through my head?

God bless!

-- Ardie/WI (ardie54965@hotmail.com), February 17, 2002.


teotwawki. stunning news

-- B. Lackie - Zone3 (cwrench@hotmail.com), February 17, 2002.

Don't know How I got here first, but I would consider it to be as bad as the death of a close friend (spouse?). I don't know what the answer is, but I suggest that a charge for keeping this wonderful forum is something I would support. Realize that many of us are folks with enough resources to support the computer and server fees, although this may be our one extravagance, and we have little "disposable income". Given that, I would be willing to pay for a membership to keep the forum going. And I would be willing to pay a tad more than the average amount needed in order to subsidize those who are less able. Come on - this is a "family"! And maybe by becoming a family that collects "dues", we can eliminate some of the ineffective lurkers and peripheral wannabes! What say you, old- timers? I've been here since the inception, don't post as often since we've reached a kazillion members, and still enjoy this site more than any other. By the way - is there a way to limit this site to those who are actually subscribers to the magazine? I would really like that. I await the magazine as well as the news of the day on the forum. Let's find a solution. The old, somewhat odd....

-- Brad (homefixer@SacoRiver.net), February 17, 2002.

Brad:

Dave and I discussed making it password controlled with a new password issue in every other issue, but that would have been another headache.

As to payment for services, you can discuss it with a new administrator, if one.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), February 17, 2002.


Sorry to see this happen, but not surprised. Thanks to you Ken and the Belangers for all you've done for us!!! We do appreciate you!!

-- cowgirlone in OK (cowgirlone47@hotmail.com), February 17, 2002.


Ken S. in WC TN has my vote! If he has the time he would make a great one......:) Just a thought...

-- Debbie T in N.C. (rdtyner@mindspring.com), February 17, 2002.

Oh HECK!!! I guess all good things muct come to an end. I am sure the forum is a giant pain in the neck, but I have enjoyed it and will miss everyone here. Good luck to all of you and may Godd bless you and keep you safe. karen

-- Karen Mauk (kansashobbit@yahoo.com), February 17, 2002.

I guess we should have seen this coming. Sorry it has to end this way, but it sure was fun for a while. I do think it would be nice if the archives could be left for a while so more than just Chuck could copy them. It has been mentioned that some of us "poor folks" just have a phone connection. This is a wealth of information that by rights belongs to all who have contributed over the years. I know that it originated with the magazine, but it really has been carried by us all in our own little way. (this is NOT negating the huge amount of time that the moderators have had to put in the keep things tidy!!!) Wishing you well, not matter what.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), February 17, 2002.

TO ARMS! I will do anything within my ability to help! Ken, I appreciate your incredible devotion thus far. I am unable to donate time, but will do my utmost to support the continuation of my favorite site. Monetarily, I am not very able, but I am somewhat able. I do contribute to various charitable organizations, and can reduce those monetary contributions to support this site. Please find a way for it to continue, and count on me to help as much as I can. Yr Obdt Svt--

-- Brad (homefixer@SacoRiver.net), February 17, 2002.

Debbie, Ken is the one stepping down from the job.

Thanks for your time Ken. You've put up with an awful lot. See you around.

-- Anne (Healthytouch101@wildmail.com), February 17, 2002.



We've all seen the "Crap" you have to deal with Ken so I don't blame you.Seems to be to easy for people to just get the info they need here on the forum than subscribing to the CS magazine.I don't have an answer but I know I would be willing to pay a fee for the forum since it is so valuable to me.Thank you Ken and everyone who has helped me out in the short time I have been here. Dave.S (Central WI)

-- Dave.S (central WI) (fakemail@bogus .com), February 17, 2002.

I was wondering if anybody else was considering taking this over. On another site I help moderate, there are 4 mods and that seems to work out about right, if something pops up, there is sure to be at least one of us who can keep the house clean. I would be willing to do whatever I can to keep it going, is there anybody else who would assume some of the responsibility?

-- Nik Nikkila (niknikkila@hotmail.com), February 17, 2002.

First I would like to say a big THANK YOU VERY MUCH to Dave & Ken. You guys have been wonderful putting up with everything. I can understand why the forum can't continue the way it is. Not that I'm happy about it in the least, heck, I usually only am able to get on the forum on Sundays, so was not a regular contributor, but, heck, I feel like I'm losing part of my family! If no one is found to take over, I would like to say a big thank you to everyone. You guys certainly know how to answer a question. I would also like to say that I'm going to miss you guys! Good grief, just thinking about not hearing another story from George- I'm going into withdrawal already! But as my favorite saying goes "Everything happens for a reason". Thanks for the fun times and God bless. And if someone does decide to take over so the forum stays - I will be eternally grateful!!

-- Michael W. Smith in North-West Pennsylvania (kirklbb@penn.com), February 17, 2002.

Thanks for sticking it out as long as you did, Ken, being moderator is a huge thankless job that no one wants, and is an especially big pain in the posterior since we seem that we all can't "play nice in the sandbox" anymore, oh, for the good old days when we all got along reasonably well with just a few squabbles ;-)!!!

-- Annie Miller in SE OH (annie@1st.net), February 17, 2002.

Well Ken, chalk another one up for my wife. She is always getting mad cause I spend way to much time on the computer and this site is about the only one that log on too. I set here every evening after it gets to dark to do anything outside and spend about 2-3 hours just on countryside forum.

I would like to say that I have very much enjoyed logging on to this site. Meeting all the different homesteaders with all the different opinions. The people that log on to this site have been very helpful with questions that I have asked. I have learned or taken interest in other various techniques through this site. And I apoligize cause I know there has been a time or two that I have lost my temper and chewed on someones butt when I probably shouldn't have. Other people have done me the same way, some even privately e-mailed me of there two cents worth. But I have always felt like we were brother and sisters, sometimes we have a little family spat but after a few days we are right back to helping each other out.

Ken I can see where you are coming from when you mention having to moniter all the material, playing referee, etc. I myself probably would not have been able to do as good a job as you have, and certainely would not have done it for free. I will miss the forum, just don't break any bad news about the magazine in such a way. Could cause a lot of suicides.

Hope to still keep in touch through the magazine. R.H.

-- r.h. in okla. (rhays@sstelco.com), February 17, 2002.



Ken, thank you for all you have done to keep the forum going. Also much thanks to Countryside Magazine for the sponsorship of it.

Any forum tends to have it's problems since the peoples of the world are so diverse. I believe that country type folk are fiercely independent and that compounds the matter. Why people just can't be civil and allow others to have their own freedom of speech I'll never know. I suppose for some it is a need/want for control and also narrow-mindedness.

When many of us were told not to let the door hit us in the butt on the way out I've not done any posting. I have however still been reading the forum and will miss it when it is gone. Miss you too Hoot, if you are still reading and just no longer posting.

Anyway, thanks Ken and Countryside for the forum, it will be missed if it is not picked up by another sponsor.

greenbeanman aka Notforprint

-- greenbeanman aka Notforprint (not@thekeyboard.com), February 17, 2002.


I regret that I do not have the know-how to help out, as I am almost computer-illiterate (we have been on-line since about October). Still, I can't help but wonder: could advertizements be sold? Something like the dripworks box on the home page? That way, it could be a part-time job with an income for somebody. Could someone make it into a shared responsibility so one person doesn't do it 7 days a week, 12 months out of the year? I have learned more here in 5 months than I have in most of my college classes, it would be a shame to see it shut down.

-- Terri (hooperterri@prodigy.net), February 17, 2002.

I'd like to add my thanks to both Dave and Ken, too. It is a monumental task to moderate something like this, and unless you have done something similar, it's hard to comprehend. Hope someone with a thick skin will step up to the plate and keep the forum going. If not, it will be a loss to all. No blame to either of you gentlemen, either. Jan in Co

-- Jan in CO (Janice12@aol.com), February 17, 2002.

I doubt either Dave or I would be receptive to a group application for several reasons. Forum policy would probably come to resemble a camel (you know - a horse designed by a committee). The forum needs consistence. The administrator for today may put a subject in one category, tomorrows in another, day after that another, etc. What is needed is consistence in policy application and housekeeping.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), February 17, 2002.

I am so sad to hear this news. This forum is what makes the magazine come alive. And I know that many articles have had their start here. Thanks Ken for what you have done in the past. I hope and pray that someone will take this on as a labor of love.

-- Ann Markson (tngreenacres@hotmail.com), February 17, 2002.

THANKS, Ken and I do understand.

-- DW (djwallace@ctos.com), February 17, 2002.

Like Terri can't volunteer but would agree to pay for use of the forum. It is like an old friend with lots of practical knowledge. Undoubtedly my favorite site on the whole web! Glad I subscribed to Countryside to keep up with the good old countryside lifestyle. I have learned so much in the very short time I have checked the forum; sometimes twice a day. Oh, say it ain't so.

-- Hank (hsnrs@att.net), February 17, 2002.

Well, poop, abandoned again. Sorry Ken, just am disapointed is all. Don't blame you a bit. Thick skin needed is right! I couldn't believe some of the comments from some folks (in other threads), re: running the forum, - judgmental, harsh and downright rude. Too bad those "bad apples" helped to spoil it for the rest. Guess this community may have gotten too big, like a city, instead of a village. Bigger is sure not always better. sigh.

-- Susan in Northern LP Michigan (cobwoman@yahoo.com), February 17, 2002.

Many Thanks Ken and Countryside.

I feel like many others, I will be losing family and a wealth of information, but I do understand why.

I don't understand why you would send resumes to Dave when they will no longer be involved with the forum and it would be under another name? Did I miss read something ? It could have been the shock I was in when I read the "Headline"!!

My thanks again for your hard work Ken,

-- Carol K (ck7951@bluefrognet.net), February 17, 2002.


Well I started this post earlier but it didnt' post:

All good things must come to an end. Don't know who said it, but whoever it was I hope they're wrong. Someone out there who is computer literate - please step forward and save our family. I feel like those poor people on the Titanic, waiting for the ship to sink, and knowing that there's nothing I can do about it. (i know that's dramatic, but losing the forum is like losing family).

Just in case no one can step up to the plate:

My thanks to everyone who has helped me in the past, Bernice and Vickie-the goat ladies. Ya'll know more about goats than my vet does! Our very own animal resuce leaguer, Shannon, who makes us all realize that animals are people too. Stan and his quick wit and sometimes "sharp" tongue. Don in Australia (Gosh I dream about going to Australia and seeing those wild camels) for giving me hope that one day I might get there. Ken for helping me with my sick calf and answering all those unasked cow questions I had. Greenthumblina - I hope you get to your little place in the country. The horse people here who always agree to disagree over anything "horsey" - we all mean well don't we? George for his funny stories. Karen and Chuck - our very own computer "geeks" - Take that Bill Gates...Rogo for answering my questions about donkeys -I still have my Jack who is mooning over my mares. Jay in Alabama - and Suzy in 'bama - my neighbors down here in the Deep South - ya'll keep eatin 'em grits.. To everyone who made this forum a home away from home - I will surely miss you guys. There are so many people who have helped me through the past couple of years - many times I get helped just by reading someone else's question. If I had to pay for all this information, it would cost a kazillion dollars.

It has been my pleasure sharing posts with each of you and if we don't get to continue on here - then perhaps at another site. In either case - THANKS for sharing all your knowledge and a part of yourselves with me.

My best to everyone!

-- Cindy (colawson@mindspring.com), February 17, 2002.


Yes, I know, I know it is the same Ken! I just think he is the right person for the job!!!

-- Debbie T in N.C. (rdtyner@mindspring.com), February 17, 2002.

I sensed that this wa scoming, sort of like 2 freight trains speeding down the same track headed for a collision. This forum has served many well and even livestock, etc. I can't blame you Ken and Dave too, for throwing in the towel. Lord knows you have both tried so hard to keep the balance and sanity here.

It certainly hasn't been the same forum it was when I started 3 yrs ago. A lot has changed. I so badly want to point the finger at some of the folks who joined recently that have created havoc, argued, insulted, shown how insolant they are, offended and hurt others. But I can't point the finger at anyone, it was inevitable with growth and the internet that this would cummuliate to this point.

I will be sad to see the forum go, I have made some really nice friends here and will miss them. I would consider helping as an administrator but my plate is already overflowing.

I hope we can reach a viable solution, but if not, we need to have some type of good-bye.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), February 17, 2002.


thanks for a great forum. this is my # 1 stop on the internet. i was a long time subscriber to countryside, dropped it while i was still living in the city. this forum helped the decision to take the magazine one again, since i am months away from the country life. how about this idea, give membership to this forum with countryside subscription. give one month free to lookie loos. OR what would be a resonable target # for new subscribers between now & March 31st? vote for this forum by subscribingto countryside now, or extending your present subscription. my # is CS 21375174 11 it expires in august, i am ready to extend my subscription now. can i call 1-800- 551-5691 with credit card & extend ? thanks again, larry in OK

-- Larry in OK (Nuts4bees@aol.com), February 17, 2002.

Noooooooooo..... :*( It can't happen! Someone do something, quick! I'll help oversee, or I'll pay, or I'll subscribe to the mag for life. Just tell us what you want!

-- Shannon at Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary (gratacres@aol.com), February 17, 2002.

WOW! To me this feels like finding your long-lost family, being able to enjoy their company, and then having to go your seperate ways again.I sure hope I run into all of you on another forum.

I have only been on the forum since Nov 2001, but you all were so nice to make me feel welcomed right from the start.I have learned so much here.

Ken, I always thought you did a great job and were very fair to everyone.And, I always looked for your post and answers to post, as I did with a lot of regulars.

Michael, I hope the withdrawels don't last long :-)

-- george nh (rcoopwalpole@aol.com), February 17, 2002.


Susan:

I assume you were referring to the off-shoot forums, rather than other threads. If the forum goes to a new administrator, in all likelihood they would rehost it on another server, rather than staying with Lusenet. Without the Lusenet referrals from this forum, I suspect new blood for the off-shoots will dry up.

Larry:

Your suggestion would be the equivalent of putting on a bandaid. It would solve none of the basic problems.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), February 17, 2002.


DAMN! Well, it was fun while it lasted....

-- Chelsea (rmbehr@istar.ca), February 17, 2002.

Oh my...Not sure what to say...

I have met so many wonderful folks here,the very thought of loseing everyone brings tears to my eyes.

The sick aniamls helped,the garden questions answered and just the nice down home talk ,so many good memories.The friends I have met are so important to me I cant imagin never meeting them,but like life its self all things do come to an end.

I would be willing to give time to help out ,not sure what I can do but maybe we could set up a "group"and each have a set "job". It maybe hard to work out the kinks but I am willing to try.Say someone takes Monday-Wednesday,the next would take Thur.-sat. and someone have Sunday. I dont know .

Ken your knowledge has been so helpful,the offbeat cow questions I have asked,the calf questions and the friendly chat,I wont forget.

The Belanger family,where would we all be without you?.My hat is off to you all for all the hard work each and everyone of you has put into educating us,letting us know its ok to go beyound the sidewalk and most of all beieive in ourselves.

I sure hope that as a group we can come up with someway to save such a great place.

-- renee o'neill (oneillsr@home.com), February 17, 2002.


When I first started coming here, it used to take a week or more for your question to go the Archives. Now, if you don't check everyday, you miss stuff so I can see how things have gotten. You didn't even have time to e-mail me back but I understood you were busy. I sure hate seeing this forum go. Hopefully someone else will pick it up...please...

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), February 17, 2002.

Well I've really enjoyed the forum. I have visited every day since I subscribed to Countryside and have posted occassionally.

As someone that volunteered for a dog rescue I can understand how things can take over your life. For me it took 6 years and 40 hour weeks with no pay to get finally burnt out - so I understand that when it is no longer fun IT IS time to move on.

Thanks Ken so much for all your hard work.

-- Anita in NC (anitaholton@mindspring.com), February 17, 2002.


Dear Ken & Countryside, I have been a Countryside subscriber for years now and love it. About 6 months ago I finally figured out how to get here (I am a bit slow with the puter!) It has been great it keeps me going between Countryside issues. I am sorry to see it go but fully understand. Thanks for the good times while it lasted. Denise

-- Denise K. (Rabbitmom2@webbworks.com), February 17, 2002.

Ken, once again I want to thank you for all of your efforts here. While I am certainly sorry to hear of this decision I do understand it.

I do have one question for you regarding the archives. Would the current archives be able to be transfered to any new forum with approval of the Countryside magazine folks? I think that might make this a bit more 'seemless' for forum members. Again, thanks for all of your efforts and I hope to see you posting at whatever follows this incarnation.

-- Gary in Indiana (gk6854@aol.com), February 17, 2002.


POOP DARN CRAP!!! (Am I allowed swearing?) I just found this forum. I have learned so much, and recommended it to sooo many of our customers at the store I work at - even a friend currently living in Hungary is a lurker. I sincerely hope that some how, some way, something can be done to save this forum in a similar format. I don't know any other place where you can get such a diverse wealth of information, a variety of opinions, etc. The variety of personalities that post (even the ones who specialize in being iritating) is absolutely wonderful. Ken, I understand. A couple of years ago I had to 'clean house' and get rid of many of the volunteer things I did, simply to reclaim my sanity. (it felt absolutely wonderful!!) Now I still do volunteer, but I pick very carefully. I don't have a choice. Please somebody - save the day.

-- Bernie from Northern Ontario (bernadette_kerr@hotmail.com), February 17, 2002.

Sorry, being able to keep the archives was such a given I forgot to mention it. Dave explored rehosting on several servers. All indicated incorporating the archives wouldn't be a particular problem and that much of the look and feel of Lusenet could be retained. The archives are public domain - not copyrighted by Countryside Publications, as is the name of Countryside when used in a media manner.

-- Ken s. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), February 17, 2002.

<>

For whomever may decide to take over this forum: To remedy this problem you can write a short script so that the form (post) cannot be sent without the required information.

I have enjoyed this forum and it is the reason I resubscribed to Countryside just last week. Well, at least I will still have Countryside. :)

-- Anne Keckler (raymondkeckler@yahoo.com), February 17, 2002.


I am saddened by the news of loosing such a valuable tool. But I am happy that you will no longer have to be put in an undisirable situation any longer KEN. I thank you from the bottom of my heart, and will remember you in my prayers. Kristean

-- Kristean Thompson (pigalena_babe@yahoo.com), February 17, 2002.

I see two answers about the archives. One is that they will be deleted, and the other is that they'll be re-routed to another host. It may be clear to others, but I am confused, which is it? Will we still be able to read all this wonderful information at another web site? Ken, thanks for all your time and effort. I personally hope someone with the credentials steps up to bat as this is too good a forum to bury, warts and all. I LOVE IT!!! Remember, Live and let live.

-- juana (juanamustang@yahoo.com), February 17, 2002.

ken, i, as many hate to see this thing go.i am retiring this year and have much experience in volunteer work. as a matter of fact i have left 1 or 2 because of the politics of it. i definitly know where you are coming from...... however, this is such a great forum and so many depend on it i would CONSIDER the moderator job. please let me know whats involved other than the time. thank you. cody

-- cody (urbusted@alltel.net), February 17, 2002.

Juana:

1. If a new administrator continues on Lusenet, the archives will still be there. Just under a different Lusenet name.

2. If they want to host the forum to a new server, one of the aspects Dave will insist on is making the archives available there.

3. If no one acceptable steps up, the forum (including the archives) will basically be deleted.

4. To be safe, there are instructions under Forum Related for downloading them yourself, or a CD can be obtained from Chuck.

On the latter, Chuck is apparently doing a land-office business. I suggest kicking in more than the $4.00 he is asking since he is doing a tremendous favor and having to take the time to do it.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), February 17, 2002.


Ken, and all...

How sad. Like losing a friend. I've been posting and reading here for over year and almost never go anywhere else when I have a question about my animals or about something around the house or yard.

I hope something can be worked out for the archives. Such a valuable repository of information.

This forum has been my connection with likeminded sorts of people on differing subjects be they homeschooling, politics, herbs, chickens etc...

Hope the comfrey I sent you last year has done well.

-- LBD in Maryland (lavenderbluedilly@hotmail.com), February 17, 2002.


Sheesh ... some of you are already putting up the headstone before the dirt is turned! I haven't been on this forum nearly as long as some of you, but I've sure gained a LOT! Lots of timely information, lots of what I consider friends, and lots of giggles (among other things)! I see the people here as a tight-knit bunch who has some yelling matches from time to time and acts just about like any other large family I've ever been around (and I should know, being the eldest of 7). So please, PLEASE someone pick up the ball and keep this great meeting place alive!!!

-- Phil in KS (pemccoy@yahoo.com), February 17, 2002.

I just happened to wonder about moving the forum and a name. I am wondering if we might be able to add the forum to the msn communities. I can't recall the name for the countryside pics on MSN communities, but we are already over there in a list. Also, w emay be able to save the archives and files as they have files, bookmarks and archives to name a few options.

Just a thought.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), February 17, 2002.


I'm extremely disappointed, but not terribly surprised. For Ken, the forum turned into a monster. I will sure miss every one of my new friends. I only found this forum in Nov, 2001, but I truly felt I was among kindred spirts here. Thank You, Ken, for your time. Everyone else, here's hoping to meet again, if on another forum.

-- Debbie in MO (risingwind@socket.net), February 17, 2002.

Now one thing to consider. How many Countrysiders is SHUTTING DOWN the forumn going to piss off to the point of revoking their subscriptions. Ever consider that one, guys?? This forumn could go on with out the Countryside badging (how about Country Side Forumn- that elimminates owned names, after all the forumn is about livinng in the country. Alot of magazines support web- junk, forumns, etc. It helps support/ promote their magazine. Paying a monitor would not be unreasonable for Countryside. As far as the people that get poed inn the forummn and quit subscribing to countryside, get real. Your mag is one of the best, the forumn is one of the best. If they are that damn touchy, they would have quit subscribing anyways. I am not going to quit subscribing my countryside magazine subscription just becauser you quit airing the forumn. Life will go on, Ill find another forumn, or start one with Lusenet, magazine support or not. Will I be more eager to subscribe to a magazine that does support an active forumn? damn strait. Will I be mad a countryside's decision. You got it. Wake up and smell the coffee- the forumn does support the mag.

-- Kevin in NC (Vantravlrs@aol.com), February 17, 2002.

Sorry to hear the news, I hope it can be worked out to save it, there are many people I feel very friendly toward, and the rest are well, ........just like family, but even better because they are not in your face unless you read the thread. If it goes to a new site would someone send me an invite? I get really lost with out links. Good Luck to every one, I'll miss you. Thumper out.....

-- Thumper/inOKC (slrldr@yahoo.com), February 17, 2002.

Darn...this means I have to return to every other month....Ken, could they offset this loss by making Countryside Magazine a monthly publication to appease subscribers and participants?! (Hey, you can't fault a girl for trying!)

-- Sheryl in Me (radams@sacoriver.net), February 17, 2002.

Can't believe I'm speechless. Can't even think of anything to type right now.

-- Annie (mistletoe6@earthlink.net), February 17, 2002.

Well, I think it is a bunch of crap. This forum is a headache ot CS and it didn't bring in the subscribers like they wanted it to. I subscribed to the mag to help support the forum. Sorry, I think they in the end will be the losers, not us. We can congregate anywhere on the web, they cannot just go out and pull in subscribers. I will now have to rethink the reason I subscribed in the first place. Any info I need, I can find on the web.

-- Laura (lauramleek@yahoo.com), February 17, 2002.

I'm sorry this has been such a pain in the butt for you, Ken and Dave! I think you both did a pretty good job for little reward!

I confess, I haven't been coming here much lately. I just can't keep up with READING the huge number of posts. Still, it seems a shame for this to die.

-- Joy F {So.Central Wisc.} (CatFlunky@excite.com), February 17, 2002.


Okay, maybe I am gonna be way off base here, but I have a suggestion. Ken, you have always, in my opinion, been fair, above board, and responsible. Even way back when with the personal assaults by Joel, you handled it all as an officer and a gentleman. Obviously, no one can afford to donate 2, 3 or even sometimes 4 hours a day for no $$. What about making the forum "subscription", just like Countryside magazine? With proceeds to go to Ken? We all pay $18.00 a year to Countryside, right? Well, I pay less, as I'm sure most do, because we re-up for 4 years at a time. But, as much as I love Countryside, if you have a question, let alone an emergency, it can take months-- with the forum, it's usually minutes, okay, sometimes a couple of hours. Now, if I remember Ken's situation right, he's retired military, has his cattle ranch, works, like the rest of us, constantly, on his place. Since I've been reading the forum (and contributing occasionally) we've seen a slow, but promising change in Ken-he's becoming a HOMESTEADER! The proof? His moving of the neighbor's shed, which we all knew about long before it came out in the magazine--(the lag I already mentioned). His Muscovy ducks, his turkeys. He is researching his roots, and loves to travel to Europe. So why don't we pay for his time on the forum? I would happily pay Ken $25.00 a year to keep his "job" as Forum moderator, expert advisor, and friend. Remember, he wouldn't make the advertising money that Countryside makes, which is really their bread and butter. So if we all paid Ken to do it, let's say a hundred of us, at $25.00 a year, he'd make, Geez, about $1.71 an hour, if he put in 4 hours a day. Sorry, Ken, I should have done the math first. But on the other hand, with it being a subscription site, he wouldn't have to put up with a lot of the BS that he does now--Bin Laden, Jr., for example. So what do you say, Ken, Can we pay you to stay? Would we screw up your taxes too much? I guess what I am saying is...pretty pretty please. Say the word, and my check's in the mail. At least think about it?

Kathie

-- Kathie in Western Washington (twinrosefarm@centurytel.net), February 18, 2002.


"If" this forum is over! I will miss you guys! I understand Ken how hard it has been. Thanks for all of your hard work! Please let's find a way to make this work!!!!! Am I the only one with a terrible big lump in my throat over all of this! Hard to type with tears in my eyes! Silly of me to be crying over people I have never seen, but I sure have gotten attached to ya'll over the last couple of years! This news was not what I wanted to come home to this evening! Blessings to all!

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), February 18, 2002.

Wow..... I feel like I have just been punched in the guts.I am a new subscriber to countryside of only 2 months and it was through the mag. that I found this forum.I have seen folks with ill animals helped so quickly that it may have saved the lives of valuable livestock.And thats something that I have seen no other magazine do.This forum is an extension of a truly fine mag.and it is will be a shame if it cant remain in tact. Countryside promotes a way of life and this forum was proof that peaple care and that we are not alone in the persuite of our country lifestyle.It was a place where we could go where peaple understand why we choose to live our lives a harder way. Like minded peaple are rare in my area and I will truly miss this site. I have learned so much more here than I have learned from the mag. because I can log on here 2-3 days a week and not have to wait for A a bi-monthly mag. to roll around. I also believe it will prove to be poor bussiness decision to seperate this board from my favorite magazine,It has to be the best self promotional tool and least expensive form of advertising available. Let me close with this, I also see no reason that membership to this site cant be linked to the magazine subscription.Niether one should be allowed to fail!! This is my first post, please dont make it my last.

-- Brian (leo_44410@yahoo.com), February 18, 2002.

Damn, I finally found a forum I like (through my CS mag script), people I feel like I've gotten to know, enjoy and can relate to and it might end. I did see Cody maybe volunteer for the thankless job- please consider his offer so this won't end.

-- Terri Bennett (mrs_swift_26547@yahoo.com), February 18, 2002.

Wow, talk about a shock to the system! As much as I wish it weren't so, Ken and Dave, I can't really blame you. Ken, you've put up with some pretty petty bs recently. Thank you for all the work you've done on the forum for all of us.

Hopefully we'll find a generous soul willing to put forth the effort to save our forum. It is my favorite site and I would hate to lose it. Losing it would be like losing lots of friends all at once. Maybe ( hopefully) Cody's offer will work out. Whatever happens Ken, I appreciate all the work you've done. If the forum is saved, I hope we'll still hear from you occasionally. Many of us here consider you a friend and would miss hearing from you.

-- Murray in ME (lkdmfarm@megalink.net), February 18, 2002.


Me thinks this will get lost in the large thread, but perhaps for the best. :)

I just found out about this forum 2 months ago. I never started a thread, because it seemed there were a lot of 'fuzzy' rules, and some issues with havng to go through a/several moderators? That's cool, I did answer many messages. Enjoyed reading many more threads.

This forum seems associated with some sort of magazine. Countryside or something??? I donno. It doesn't seem very relavent. If you thought this would be a money maker or enticement to subscribe, then this forum format was _not_ the right choice. You needed something with a home page of your own, with subscription info, monthly topics (to reel me in), and info, info, info. And the dreaded banner ads to help pay for the server time - but those deals are not going well anyhow, so too late to get on that bandwagon. My point - Magazine? What magazine? You never ever made me want to get the magazine. You needed a wa to promote it - this style of forum did _not_ in any way do that for you. In fact, I wonder about the fate of the magazine - does not seem you understand advertising very well, if you thought this would bring subscribers. You needed a very different layout than this greenspan stuff could provide you. Something different could have worked well for you.

The internet was wild & new in the 80s, fun in the 90s, and will now be pay-per-view in the 00s. I wrote about this before. The free ride is ending. We will subscribe to what little pieces we want, and there won't be any 'free' areas like this in the near future. The internet will be subscription only. We used to have free TV, now everyone is paying $50 a month for cable. Radio is free, but XM is a subscription, we'll be dumb enough to pay. Same with the internet. This forum is doomed, as are all others like it.

When I found this place, the rumors were already here, and when those in charge poo-pooed that, it seemed the fate was sealed - this place is going away. I am _very_ surprised that it's less than 2 weeks notice, but whatever.

I do understand the grind & hassle, and thanks to those who put in their time to keep it running for the time I was around. If it's time for you to walk away, I have nothing bad to say about you at all. A little surprise, and a little 'well, what were you thinking?' but mostly just thanks.

Bye, --->Paul

-- paul (ramblerplm@hotmail.com), February 18, 2002.


Shows what you know Paul, I subscribed BECAUSE of this forum. Ever tried www.countrysidemag.com? Maybe if more people "pulled their head out" this forum wouldn't have be closed. if you are not part of the solution, step aside

-- laura (lauramleek@yahoo.com), February 18, 2002.

interesting paul........so just how did you find us?? I have been a CS subscriber since it was bought by JD way back whenever (lapsed a couple of times but hey, money was tight). When he, JD, first started talking about computers and the internet and how we could all be "connected", I actually wrote one of those......Oh yeah...Right, sort of articles. Boy was I wrong.

This has turned into a real "community" and many of my actual friends now were first only "virtual" friends that I met on the forum. As a group we homesteaders are an opionated and sometimes cranky bunch, and most of us don't fit into a "one size fits all" sort of mold.

The first thing I did when I hit the internet was look up the forum. I had been reading about it and just couldn't wait. So you see, it is always best to know of what you speak. Will I stop my magazine subscription?? Probably not unless all traces of what it once was are gone. JD was a very special, ornery, and opinioned man that I felt over the years like he was a friend, even though I never met him. I miss him and his son who started this forum.

People have come and gone and new forums have been created as an off- shoot of this one as the various type of interests have sorted themselves out. Some left with hard feelings, but I would venture a guess that everone that has ever been here has been impacted in some way by this forum. We have had wanna-bes and not wanna-bes, city folks just looking for pet tricks, and every kind of lurker and trasher imaginable (I am one of those early morning people that see the trash here Ken has to clean up).

I would venture to say that any one of us that would be willing to do the housekeeping here would be instantly trashed and shot down by someone...........just goes with the territory. I am also very certain that someone will rise to the occasion and try and do the job.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), February 18, 2002.


Remember the issue, Diane, where EVERYONE wrote in and said they would never, never get a computer! Oh no, not us. I honestly thought I would never get one either, but now I can't imagine not having mine. I too, came to the forum as soon as I got hooked up, and I remember I was so scared to even post something! I lurked for a long time before being brave enough to post. Boy that seems so long ago. Now, all the folks around here who have goats, cows, whatever, call me and ask me to find out info for them on the web.

And I remember how I dreaded getting every issue in 99, every one told me how NOT ready we were! Here I was getting Countryside for over a decade, and I was still not ready "just in case".

And, because of this forum, I've had several pictures of mine in the magazine, too cool. I remember reading many, many posts where folks said, just got my PC, came straight to Countryside forum.

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@msn.com), February 18, 2002.


Yeah Cindy, sure do!!! I still have all those old issues and need to drag it out just for the laughs. Yes, I think it would be nice if some of us could "partner up" but it seems that they have other ideas. I guess we just need to wait and see. Nothing like being powerless!!! The archives are well preserved on CD's and there are all sorts of off shoot forums right here on Lucenet, so I am not too concerned with losing people. I JUST HATE CHANGE!!!! :>)

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), February 18, 2002.

I subscribed to the magazine because of the forum, because of the forum my brother, and uncle subscribe, without the forum I'll be rethinking my subscription in August-right now I'm not sure what I'll do. I enjoy the magazine but there is only so much information in it (beside being bimonthly), the forum has tons of diverse information that I would never find in the magazine. IMHO, Countryside Publications is cutting off a viable marketing tool-hook the forum to the website rather than Lusenet, add a buck or two to the subscription price and include the forum in that price, tie the forum to subscription only readers. Will Dairy Goat Journal, and Sheep! cover the revenue lost when readers drop their subscription to Countryside because of the loss of the forum? It could happen, only time will tell.

That said, thank you Ken for the wonderful, thankless work that you did.

Stacy Rohan Kincora Farm

-- Stacy (KincoraFarm@aol.com), February 18, 2002.


This thread is a perfect example of why they no longer want to put up with the hassle. Holy Moley people!

Some subscribed because of the forum, others are gonna drop the magazine because of the forum. There's absolutely no way they can win because its gonna piss someone off regardless of what they do. If you like the magazine and find it helpful, buy it.

-- john (natlivent@pcpros.net), February 18, 2002.


I'm one of the newbies who recently discovered the forum. I don't think I've been posting here for more than a month or two.

I would hope that those who might cancel their subscriptions because they disagree with the shutdown of the forum reconsider. The Balangers have invested decades of effort in helping others. Instead I think it would be appropriate for those who don't currently subscribe to do so even knowing that the forum will no longer be supported.

The forum has been a significant free resource. To expect it would always be so is to be ungrateful. Add my thanks to the others who thanked those who started and maintained the forum.

-- Darren (df1@infi.net), February 18, 2002.


I agree John; some people seem to be incapable of expressing themselves without sarcasm and defensiveness, which can not ever lead anywhere but bad feelings somewhere. So sad, even having seen where this kind of behaviour has now led, that it is still occurring on this thread. Some folks must be really unhappy individuals.

Peace,

-- Earthmama (earthmama48@yahoo.com), February 18, 2002.


Just to clear up a few points - I am more of a 'farmer' than a 'homesteader' so the magazine probably isn't aimed at me. Sounds nice. I guess if I was really into homesteading I'd try to find out more about it. But this web site has never had a real huge 'hook' to make people sitting on the edge go look at the mag. This is, of course, my opinion only. :)

For people considering dropping their subscription because of this all, give it a little time. I've been through this on 2 farm forums. So yes I see the mess some people leave on forums such as this, and I've been thrrough forum shutdowns & remodelings. Just give it some time. Keep the mag subscription if you enjoy reading it. Don't cut off your own nose, etc. :)

As to forums like this, if you see a thread that has no place in the forum - ignore it! Adults can successfully use an open forum. just ignore the crude. It really does work. :)

Again, good luck & best wishes to the past & future of this site.

--->Paul

-- paul (ramblerplm@hotmail.com), February 18, 2002.


Paul, If the magazine wouldn't be "aimed at you", then what are you doing here? This forum is full of like minded Countrysiders. You wouldn't be stealing our hands on experiences for your "farm" would you? LOL!

-- cowgirlone in OK (cowgirlone47@hotmail.com), February 18, 2002.

OK folks, either knock it off or I will start to warm up my post deleting key.

Ken Scharabok

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), February 18, 2002.


Oh, OH.......I feel a power surge coming on....just kidding Ken, honest.........you know me, sometimes I just can't resist. ;>)

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), February 18, 2002.

This is very disappointing news, but I understand the reasons for pulling out of the forum. Thank you, Belanger family and Ken, for supporting it for as long as you have.

I have subscribed to Countryside magazine for several years, and, of course, will continue to do so. Like many others, this was the first place I wanted to find after connecting my computer to the internet. It is the first place I visit after turning on my computer almost every day. While not computer savvy enough to help moderate a forum, I would be willing to help support another financially.

I hope some form of this forum can continue!

-- bluetick (coonhound@mindspring.com), February 18, 2002.


Sorry Ken! I need to learn to keep my thoughts to myself and go on my way quietly!! Sorry!

-- cowgirlone in OK (cowgirlone47@hotmail.com), February 18, 2002.

I'm not surprised at the decesion. I for one will not cancel my subscription to Countryside, have had it too, too many years. I might just pick up my subscription to Dairy Goat. I often noticed some of the question would have been answered if the person had only done their homework. What did we all do before the forum ?? We researched and ask the "old timers" and built our own library of books. that is what homesteading is about. Now we will all have to depend on more of ourselves then any easy answer on the forum. Enjoyed having it but things do have their time. Good Luck to the person if they do deceide to take this huge job. But really don't see it happening. Thanks to everyone who has put their hard work into this forum for our benefits. I appreciated it !!

-- Helena (windyacs@npacc.net), February 18, 2002.

Tarnation! Not surprised to hear about this, Ken has been taking a lot of flak for a thankless job. Thank you Ken and Dave, and thank you Countryside, for providing such an entertaining and informative site. Somehow, we will get on with life, but life is sure going to be a lot gloomier for a while. I hope I see you guys posting elsewhere pretty soon.

-- j.r. guerra in s. tx. (jrguerra@boultinghousesimpson.com), February 18, 2002.

Sorry to see the true CS form go. I will miss it greatly.

-- (sagehills@msn.com), February 18, 2002.

Sorry! Just like ol' TB2000, it got weary from the sheer (almost wrote "shear") volume. Too many posts, too many unfamiliar names, etc. How on earth would you ever figure out who to trust to tell you some valid information? (I sound like an old codger!)

I'm giving out gift subscriptions to Countryside this year.

Thanks Ken, Dave, and ol' jD. Great initial idea to start this forum! (Always a good idea to leave the party before the very last guest, though...)

Best wishes to the new folks! XOXOXOX

-- sheepish (WA) (the_original_sheepish@Hotmail.com), February 19, 2002.


Wow, Ken, I got busy for a week or so and now look what's happened. Well, I just want to say THANK YOU for all you've done and all the crap you've put up with. I know what you mean about volunteering. Time to move to something fresh and fun again, isn't it? Chuck seems like a good choice, but I'll miss you. I hope you decide to visit now and then, once the sourness has worn off. (And I hope the forum's still around if and when you decide to drop by.) Thanks again for everything!

-- Laura Rae Jensen (lrjensen@nwlink.com), February 21, 2002.

Sheepish, good idea in "giving out gift subscriptions to Countryside". I did something similar - sent a good size check to Dave to buy subscriptions to persons that could not afford them any longer and for libraries.

-- Lynn (LynnGoltz@AOL.com), February 21, 2002.

Oh my, it really is like someone dying. If no one continues this, maybe we'll all have to write more in Countryside. But I do hope someone will take over the job of running this forum. Ken has done well, but we all get tired after a while.

-- Bonnie (stichart@plix.com), February 21, 2002.

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