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greenspun.com : LUSENET : Freedom! self reliance : One Thread

Hello Folks,

I know some of you do not go to the Countryside Forum for personal reasons but, I think you would like to know what is going on there. Ken has posted a message about the Countryside Forum closing at the end of the month, as it will not be supported by Countryside Magazine any longer! In order for it to continue, it will have to have a new name and a new webmaster.....any takers?

Sincerely, Ernest

-- http://communities.msn.com/livingoffthelandintheozarks (espresso42@hotmail.com), February 17, 2002


how interesting..

-- lesley (martchas@bellsouth.net), February 17, 2002.

"And I will destroy their great cities and lay thy enemies at your feet" But we must stop this revival of vengenge ! Some might think that we should punish them but let me be the first to heal their loss and welcome them with open arms. Doreen has always been a great webmaster and will always have my support. As for the Countryside archives I think we should keep them somewhere as a reminder that those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. Would someone please invite them to dinner ? My name would only cause a controversy.

-- Joel Rosen (JoelnBecky@webtv.net), February 17, 2002.

"Wait on the LORD, and keep his way, and he shall exalt thee to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, thou shalt see it. I have seen the wicked in great power, and spreading himself like a green bay tree. Yet he passed away, and,lo, he was not: yea, I sought him, but he could not be found." Psalm 37:34-36

-- Rags in ALABAMA (THE HEART OF DIXIE) CRADLE OF THE CONFEDERACY (RaggedReb@aol.com), February 18, 2002.

You better believe we would invite them to dinner, Joel. All three of my Kuvasok would just LOVE to have any of those ;#@^&*#$%^^@##f* (*&^%#$%@^%s for dinner.

-- Rags (RaggedReb@aol.com), February 18, 2002.

I'm not sure what a Kuvasok is (a foreignmade gun, perhaps?) but Rags you can capture more flies with honey than vinegar not everyone at Countryside was against you.

-- Dagny T. (dagny1@playnice.net), February 18, 2002.

Boy, Dagaruu, that's pretty lame, but you're right about one thing-- not everyone at CS was against me, in fact most of the ones who weren't are on THIS GREAT FORUM. And as for flies, I don't want to draw any flies, I'll leave that for all you Baal worshipping followers of Beelzebub.

When I go give the hogs and chicks their breakfast this morning, I'll tell Mattie that some dimbulb liberal thought he was a Saturday night special.

-- Rags (RaggedReb@aol.com), February 18, 2002.

Rags, rags, rags, "Baal worshipping followers of Beelzebub"??????? Can not someone disagree with you without that?? You know, being a bit squimish about guns doesn't make you a liberal either.......just means you are a bit squimish about guns. Don't want yours taken away, never did.....but sure got accused of it when I tryed to mention that there might be another way.

Ernest, it would not surprise me in the least if they hadn't had someone picked out all along. My granddaddy used to say "the proof is in the pudding" (what ever that really means :>) ) I guess if it stays put and has the archives available I will be all wet, but I expect it will end up in "pay for view" before it is all over.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), February 18, 2002.

Hello Folks,

Gandhi was once asked, "What was the greatest thing about Christianity?". His reply was, "Jesus Christ". Then he was asked, "What was the worst thing about Christianity?" His reply was, "Christians!"

Funny that these quotes "popped" into my head as I was reading the above threads but, never the less it seemed appropiate at the time.



-- http://communities.msn.com/livingoffthelandintheozarks (espresso42@hotmail.com), February 18, 2002.

Well, Chuck is now the moderator at Countryside. I think he will do a good job, he seems like a very pleasant, fair person. I think this is a very good thing, and while Ken certainly put a lot of work into the forum, I felt that most of the work was not actually necessary- i.e., the forum would have been better with minimal interference and less policing. Just my opinion.

Here is the way I see it now. We have a real opportunity. If we are reasonably civil I think we will be welcome at Countryside once more. There is a chance to recover what the forum used to be- and it changed for the worse when many of us left. Ken is gone, let's give Chuck a chance to prove whether or not he will moderate the forum fairly and with moderation (sorry, couldn't help it!).

I do want to add that I like this forum, too, and I really appreciate all Doreen's efforts here. But speaking only for myself, I enjoy interacting with people who have different opinions and viewpoints. I agree with much of what gets said here- but, I like controversy and a lively debate. We used to have that on Countryside, and it didn't always get nasty. When it did, we usually worked it out. I guess what I am saying is that we have a chance to steer the Countryside forum back in the right direction- let's not miss out, or screw it up by getting nasty about Ken leaving.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), February 18, 2002.

DIANE,DIANE,DIANE, who died and made you god?

-- Rags (RaggedReb@aol.com), February 18, 2002.

He has come, and his name is Chuck.

Do not worry the archives are safe, Chuck has burned them onto a CD, and you can have them for a fee.

While you are at it join pay pal, tell them Chuck referred you and he will get a $5 per head finders fee.

Need mutual funds, see Chuck.

Incidentally he knows the Greenspun family...

Feel free to comment on religeon. Chuck is Baptist, not sure which brand of Baptist.

Now for homestead type of topics, well perhaps someone will start a forum for that.

-- Ed Copp (OH) (edcopp@yahoo.com), February 18, 2002.

And what is it with you clueless liberals? Who said anything about guns? MATTIE IS A DOG. KUVASZ ARE DOGS. If you come to a word you don't know, why don't you look it up before attacking me.

-- Rags (RaggedReb@aol.com), February 18, 2002.

Honest Rags, I was not attacking you. Just really trying to understand. Obviously any attempts at that are useless. No one died and made me God, but Jesus died for my sins and that is good enough for me. Wishing you well..........someday I hope the Lord will heal the hatred in your heart that seems to flair up so much when someone even asks you a question. I won't do it again.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), February 18, 2002.

I've been gone for a few days and just now caught up w/ this stuff. If I understand what I read correctly, CS Mag won't have any input anymore. So, go to Chucks' personal website and check it out. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. Chuck's ok. Give 'em a chance people.

Besides, if you, we, us, etc. no longer go there anyway.....Why the fuss? That forum fills a need for many people and is a great resource for folks. When I do go there and lurk, I don't recognise most of 'em. Hey, they weren't part of that mess that occured anyway. Let it go.

Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?" And Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy seven times."

How can anyone claim to be a Christian and hold on to hatred so? Yeah, I can see how people would feel welcome at this site.....or not. Ghandi was on to something there.

Maybe I'll just paste this at the other thread too.

-- John in S. IN (jdoofus@hotmail.com), February 18, 2002.

Hi guys,

I wasn't around when this forum spun off from the CS forum. Apparently, there are some bitter feelings about it still. Can anyone explain to me what happened, so I'll know where you're coming from? Whatever it was, I had no part in it, so please don't crucify me without giving me a chance.

That said, let me clarify a few things...

Chuck is a Christian, not a Baptist. He attends a baptist church. Remember the one that got shot up in 1999? His dad is the church admin there.

Chuck has no agenda on the forum. He likes homesteading. I think the job was given to him on the premise of "when you need to get something done, give it to a busy person."

No agenda, No agenda, No agenda.

Chuck offered to make copies of the Countryside, CS Families, and Freedom! forums on a cd as a favor, He's not going to get rich selling them, or on $5 paypal referrals, for that matter. He makes a decent living anyway, and doesn't need to sell cd's to feed his family. Is it okay if Chuck makes a living managing people's money? He hasn't asked for yours, he doesn't need it. He's got enough to do.

Ed, you seem pretty cynical. What gives? Did I step in it already?

-- chuck in md (woah@mission4me.com), February 18, 2002.

Chuck, I think you will do a great job. I've enjoyed your many posts at Country Families and the few you've posted here. I think you are wise enough not to try to micro manage the thoughts and words of forum participants. I am a firm believer we should censor ourselves instead of others.

I do believe you have the ablilty to restore the original community atmosphere that brought so many of us to the lusenet forums. I was offline at the time of the big CS fracture and I left there when Hoot was deleted.

-- Laura (Ladybugwrangler@hotmail.com), February 18, 2002.

Chuck, good luck w/ your new undertaking. I'm thinking your gonna need it. I meant what I said about you in the prior post, your ok. For the life of me, I can't understand why anyone would want to subject themselves to the abuse your gonna get upon taking that job. But again, Good luck. If I can ever be of service, feel free to email me.

Oh BTW, you didn't step in it. Ed's always been like that. It's good to have a curmudgeon around tho!

-- John in S. IN (jdoofus@hotmail.com), February 18, 2002.

Not me, I'm not cynical. I do reserve the right to appear a bit cynical when there is a goat living in my house, however. I do also reserve the right to tell it like I see it.

Someone mentioned 32 as a number of years (of age I think), I do have one pair of bib overalls that are about that old. Not cynical just a fact. I am out here doing it and would love to see all of us get back to discussing homesteading, we have the opportunity to learn from each other if we want to do that.

We all have an agenda. The person who has the idea that they have NO agenda is at least very poorly informed. An agenda is not all bad, and they are subject to change from time to time.

Step in it? No, but I would venture to say that a new learning experience is underway.

-- Ed Copp (OH) (edcopp@yahoo.com), February 18, 2002.

Chuck, you asked what happened when this forum broke off from Countryside. It didn't hapen all on one day, but there were a few milestones. For me, the biggest one was when Steve Belanger left and Ken took over. Steve pretty much left the forum alone. If something profane or really objectionable came up, someone would e mail Steve and then he'd delete it. But he didn't have a big interest in the forum and for the most part, let us discuss what we wanted to. JD Belanger used to post then, too, he hasn't for a long, long time.

I don't know if some thin skinned people came along and started complaining about every little thing to Steve, or what happened, but for whatever reason, Ken took it over because Steve got tired of it. At the time, Ken seemed like a nice guy. He was a little prone to accepting the standard party line on things, but other than that he seemed decent enough.

Once he got in control, things started to change. One of the first things he did was to start censoring posts, and I believe he deleted one of Joel Rosen's posts. You don't know Joel. He is controversial and imflammatory, but he is very interesting and brought so much life to the forum. I would always scroll down to see what Joel had to say on each thread, it was never dull. :) Joel had/has strong opinions on political subjects, and was pretty lively about discussing them. If it got too off subject or wasn't interesting to me, I just skipped past the thread. Ken started deleting them, and there wasn't a warning, it was just ZAP, and the threads were gone. If you had the nerve to ask why, that got deleted too. So Joel left, and things just weren't the same without him. Several other posters left about the same time. Then Ken started deleting Doreen's posts. Doreen was another vital part of the forum, and she left. She started this forum.

Now, to be fair- there had always been an ongoing problem on the Countryside forum. A lot of the participants were Christians (notice it is no longer this way). Some of them would post thread on religious topics, which was fine. I think homesteading and religion are related, as some of us have moved to the country lifestyle for religious reasons, or sometimes our religion affects our homesteading activities. Besides, it's a part of who we are. BUT, some of the Christians were (sorry) obnoxious about sharing their faith. Every other thread would go off on some kind of a tangent sharing how so and so was born again, and would be praying for John to do the same. Then an atheist would reply and pretty soon the war was on. Twenty different Christians would barrage the atheist with arguments and prayers and witnessing, and it was really a pain, especially when the thread wasn't even about religion to begin with. It may have been a thread about eating meat, digressing into religious reasons, and then into nothing but proseletyzing, with all mention of meat being totally forgotten. Now, I like to talk about religion, it's fascinating to find out what others believe. But some of these people just had no respect. If they wanted to witness, why not start a new thread 'I am a Christian and why should should be one too'. And it was almost a daily occurence- very irritating. I think that incidental remarks about religion should be allowed. Threads about religion should be allowed as long as they don't degenerate into name calling and outright nastiness. Swamping a non-religious thread with witnessing should NOT be allowed. Not out of discrimination, just that it is taking the thread off topic and it's inconsiderate, especially if the person who posted the question is receiving all the replies by e mail!!

I thought what Ken did was pretty extreme. He started by deleting anything religious that did not say so in the thread title. Then pretty soon it was ALL relgious topics. Then, all it took was one little scripture verse at the bottom of your post. People left in droves. The liberals, the leftists, the atheists, the neo pagans, cheered and applauded Ken. They were very happy, and since that time, the forum has had a much more leftist flavor than it used to. Not that I minded the liberal people being on there. But, Ken wasn't fair about what he deleted. A thread about 'Any other Christians out there?' was promptly zapped into cyberspace. "Any Neo Pagans or Wiccans out there?' was allowed to stay. Stupid spam type stories and R rated jokes stayed. A prayer request for a mother on her deathbed was deleted. There wasn't a really clear cut way to tell what would be deleted and what would not, it was totally arbitrary. Most of the really special posters, who had been around from the beginning, and who really had useful experience and homesteading knowledge to offer,left. I stayed, sometimes just lurking, because I couldn't stand to see people posting 'My goat is sick and I think she's going to die!!!!' and not answer it. I would say that 80-90% of the people there now are new to the forum. This is why they just can't get it when the old timers are upset with Ken, they don't remember what it used to be like.

Anyway, I think you are the right person for the job, and I wish you success. Sorry to be so long winded.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), February 18, 2002.

I really liked Ken and believe he did a wonderful job, no matter how thank-less it was. I also do not believe that anyone who left the countryside forum has been missed. it has been very helpful to me in my endeavors and I like it best with out all of the fighting hypocritical christians. I did not like Joels posts- he always sounded like he was trying to start trouble and did so too much of the time. I think if people are going to publicly proclaim theirselves to be christians than they should act like christians.

-- mvkk (mvkk@aol.com), February 19, 2002.

"-- chuck in md (woah@mission4me.com), February 18, 2002"

I don't think this is the "same" Chuck.....

For the chuck in md, Thank-You. It was good of you to post that information in regards to Chuck. He sounds like a capable man with good motives and "lots" of energy>lol!! I wish him the best and expect it will all work out just fine.

-- Wendy@GraceAcres (wjl7@hotmail.com), February 19, 2002.

Uhhh, think I should have had my coffee before posting....ergh, uhh, hmm, perhaps "chuck" is "chuck"....so, let me re-phrase that ----- Chuck, my best to YOU **grin** and what I said above.

-- Wendy@GraceAcres (wjl7@hotmail.com), February 19, 2002.

Good luck to Chuck! I have no ax to grind as mine is already sharp...I don't believe in going back in time, tho'. No ill wishes, no bad, hard, sad, grievous feelings or wistful remembrances of the good ole days....Things change. I am grateful the archives will/have been saved in a much better fashion than was attempted before:)---but I don't think I will try to go back and revive something that has been long dead. If everyone flocks back to Cside under a new name the same thing is bound to happen. My initial reaction to this news was "whatever", and after digesting it a bit, that's still my reaction;) No offense intended to anyone, just my opinion.

Good luck to all! and I was recently informed that some people take exception to being wished good luck---strange as that is!-- then Godspeed to those folks, and if you take exception to that--- whatever.;)

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), February 19, 2002.

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