Link to Religious Adherent Statistics and religious geography citations : LUSENET : Catholic : One Thread

The first link (below) will take you to a very helpful page -- a home page for "", an internet site for religious adherent statistics. There are direct links to many statistical summaries, graphs, survey results, religious denomination web pages and religious affiliations of persons.

Link to Adherents home page

Also highly recommended: Link to Catholic discussion forum

-- Michael Hitzelberger (, February 18, 2002


-- (_@_._), February 20, 2002.

What do you all think of the following passage (from

"Catholic: Includes Old Catholic, Aglipayan (Philipines), Uniate, in addition to the Catholic Church headquartered at the Vatican. Occasionally "Catholic" is used, as in the table above, to refer to a branch of Christianity that includes the Catholic Church headquartered at the Vatican, as well as relatively recent off-shoots that still consider themselves Catholic, such as the Old Catholic churches. Certainly it also includes non-Latin Rite Catholic churches such as Uniates, Greek Catholics, Ukrainian Catholics, Maronites, etc., all of which are in full papal communion and regarded as part of the same religious body as the "Roman Catholic" church. The fact that there are non-Latin Rite Catholics such as these is one of the reasons that many Catholics do not like the term "Roman Catholic Church" as a name for their church. While "Roman Catholic" has long been used without any offense intended, it is increasingly disliked by some members of the Vatican-based Catholic Church, and in nearly every place on this web site that this church is mentioned, the term "Catholic Church" is used. "Roman" is left off, as both inaccurate and potentially objectionable. On other pages, the term "Catholics" by itself refers to members of the Vatican-based Catholic Church, whether they be Roman Catholics, Greek Catholics, Ukrainian Catholics, Uniates, Coptic Catholics, etc. This is not the only possible usage of the capitalized term "Catholic." uses the term "Catholic" in essentially the same way that most contemporary sociological literature uses it. In studies of the general population, distinctions between Latin Rite Catholics and other Catholics are ignored. Also, Episcopalians are generally grouped with Protestants (or, in studies with more specificity, Liberal Protestants).

One different definition of "Catholic" and "Catholic Church" is described by Fr. Gene Britton, an Episcopal Priest:

As we have discussed with Fr. Britton, the usage he suggests is one considered important by a minority of the population (in the U.S., there are about 60 million Catholics vs. about 2 million Episcopalians, and worldwide the difference in numbers is even larger). Although most Catholics are not bothered by the term "Roman Catholic", they do not wish to be called "Romans", and they do not they consider Anglicans or Eastern Orthodox to be members of the Catholic Church. It is true that Anglicans and Eastern Orthodox Christians may be considered Catholic from some historical and theological perspectives. But ever-increasing ecumenism between Anglicans and other Protestants around the world (and, in 2001, full communion between Episcopalians and ELCA Lutherans in the U.S.), continue to diminish the degree to which most Anglicans wish to be known as Catholics."

-- Jeffrey Zimmerman (, February 21, 2002.

Hi, Jeffrey.
Though I did not agree with every single facet of it, I found it refreshingly frank and correct to a surprisingly high degree.

With what did I disagree?

(1) "Catholic: Includes Old Catholic ..."
It should not, since Old Catholics are schismatic and (I believe) now tending toward heresies.

(2) "... 'Roman Catholic' has long been used without any offense intended ..."
That is true both of some Catholics and some Protestants. However there are MANY anti-Catholics (e.g., Bible-Belters, SDAs, etc.) who intentionally include the word "Roman" as an insult. I never use "Roman Catholic" and have argued against its use because of its roots as a slur in 16th century England. One thing not mentioned above is that those Latin Rite Catholics who speak of the "Roman Catholic Church" are speaking of the whole Church (including Eastern Rites) -- but those MANY Eastern Rite Catholics who speak of the "Roman Catholic Church" are speaking of the Latin Rite only!!! All the more reason to speak only of the "Catholic Church."

(3) "Fr. Gene Britton, an Episcopal Priest [says]: ... Many of us are Catholics without being ROMAN Catholics. I am a priest in the Episcopal Church, and since priesthood vested in an individual is antithetical to Protestantism, there are no Protestant priests. So, if I am a priest, I must be a Catholic priest."
Rev. Britton can become a priest only if he converts to genuine Catholicism. The fact is that Pope Leo XIII, about 100 years ago, decided once and for all that Anglican ordinations are "absolutely null and utterly void."

God bless you.

-- (, February 21, 2002.

OUCH! OUCH! Italics Catholic = Roman Catholic?

-- (_@_._), February 21, 2002.

Yeah, 'cuz the Pope is the Bishop of Rome, a city in Italic. :)

-- Jeffrey Zimmerman (, February 22, 2002.

He isn't the bishop of the City of Rome, though. It's the Holy See he is bishop in, and I'm not sure how many cities that See embraces. I also take some umbrage (a 50-cent word) at the use of a qualifying term like *Vatican-based* when speaking of the Universal Church.

The Holy Catholic Church is based in heaven, on earth and in purgatory as well.

We are truly based in Jesus Christ. The Mystical Body of Christ makes His Church present in all the scope of human history itself, owing to His Incarnation; He is True Man (Adam) and True God, the Eternal Son. His Mystical Body exists entire in Purgatory (the Church Suffering) on earth, (Church Militant) and in Heaven (Church Triumphant). All in His divine Person; not by the most minute merit of His members. Does a term like Vatican-Based tell anybody anything?

-- eugene c. chavez (, February 22, 2002.

Gene, you wrote: "He isn't the bishop of the City of Rome, though. It's the Holy See he is bishop in, and I'm not sure how many cities that See embraces."

Maybe it's just the way you have worded this, but it confuses me a bit.
One of the titles of the pope is "Bishop of Rome" (i.e., of the diocese of Rome), and his cathedral is that of St. John Lateran, within the city of Rome. [The Basilica of St. Peter within Vatican City State is not a cathedral.]

God bless you.

-- (, February 23, 2002.

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