My view of 'Chemtrails', 'Planet X' et algreenspun.com : LUSENET : Freedom! self reliance : One Thread
My Dear Friends
It is quite clear to me that a good number of folks are seriously concerned about 'chemtrails', planet 'X' and sundry other scarey things.
They seek out 'information' and post it as 'proof' that something sinister is going on.
Now I did not get as old as I am without experiencing a few things and I have tried to make every day a 'learning' day, at different times I have had qualifications relating to aviation, meteorology, navigation, electronics and electrics. I don't know EVERYTHING about ANY of these subjects but I pride myself on a reasonable basic knowledge of each.
When I am told that commercial airlines are being somehow coerced into 'sowing' thousands of gallons of an unknown substance over the entire world I am extremly dubious knowing as I do how every ounce of weight has an effect on the bottom line.
People claim to have seen airliners in close proximity, even at the same altitude but they never mention that the crossing aircraft somehow by some magic does not disturb the 'chemtrail' it crosses.
Others have given lucid and credible explanations of 'grids' and other sinister 'proofs' so I need not repeat them.
Someone said they lived in a remote location where commercial aircraft never go, I suggest he/she consult a Jepperson chart and identify the air routes in their area.
Then of course there is 'the big one', why would any government do this to their own citizens? One web site shows by a huge 'study' that the program is about modification of the atmosphere for purposes related to radio communications. I have already pointed out that thousands of non-military people in the US would notice such a thing very quickly. Ha ha, that's a thought, maybe it does not work!
Of course I don't have the big answer but if history is anything to go by they would be doing these 'experiments' in someone elses backyard and I have not seen any evidence of such activity around here.
I could go on and on but the really sad thing about chemtrails is that good people have come to believe in the mischief that has been created by someone who knows human gullibility. Now we have folks shortening their lives by stress and worry, not to mention neck strain!
Planet X, originally Pluto before it was discovered. The effects of Pluto, which is a rather puny planet, was observed and plotted by astronomers and navigators long before Pluto was seen by telescope. If there was another 'Planet X' wandering around the unexplained purterbations would still be there unexplained.
Regarding chemtrails, I have not seen any evidence I can not readily recognise as some effect I already know about. That only proves I dont know if the chemtrail project exists. I don't have any proof of Santa Claus either but it will take more than presents in my stocking to make me a believer.
Regarding Planet X. This certainly is rubbish.
Should people be concerned? Perhaps we should have something to worry about?
How about: 1. The war in Afghanistan never finishes, or do you think victory is already there?
2. What will happen if there is another war on the Korean Peninsula? Will the US abandon South Korea? Will the US fight the DPRK? I remember watching newsreels and TV programs of at least two wars where US forces faced the PLA (China's army) but I don't remember any victory parades.
3. What is the US doing to it's friends and allies? The US are holding citizens her strongest allies without trial, without charge, without contact, without representation and for an indefinit period. How long will the allies tolerate this?
4. Can Palestine and Israel continue as they are forever?
We should stop inventing things to worry about, get ourselves informed on what is happening then we will at least have a good reason to lie shivering in our beds.
-- john hill (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 21, 2002
john, you have always strived to be quite reasonable in your expressions of your reasoning. I appreciate it. As to Planet X, or what have you, I really don't know anything more than I have read about it here and cannot possibly get worried about something like that. What in heaven's name could you do to stop a huge planet hurtling at you if it was going to? I can't wrap my brain around it, and Steven's explanations were very appreciated by this astronomically ignorant person.
The chemtrails are an entirely different story. No one has yet been able to tell me why the sky began to fill with these things suddenly when the temperature variance was non existent as was the humidity variance. I can see this, I understand through a lifetime of observation that there is a true contrail and then there are these things, call them what you will. If they indeed have chemicals in them I would like to know what they are and why they are being used. As Rags so eloquently stated on the other thread,"6' high letters on semi trucks that don't exist"....they have always been there....aaauuuggh. I AM in the bleedin' Twilight Zone but they refer to it as America!
-- Doreen (email@example.com), February 21, 2002.
John us Americans don't have time to worry about all that stuff going on in Korea, Israel and China .We have more important issues right now to deal with,like how to keep our American flags that we have attached to our automobiles from getting stolen every time we leave our veicle in the parking lot and go into a store.And as far as the war in Afghanistan, we have a plan that has worked in a lot of run down , war like neighborhoods in cities in the U.S.and we believe they'll work there. First we will send in troops of Hippies to Afghanistan .They'll be willing to go if they know it's the season for Hashish harvest.After the hippies live there a while they'll start making and selling hand crafts ,tie dye T-shirts and cheese sandwhiches and make the place look habitable. The Yuppies will take notice and see it as a neighborhood to invest in.They'll start renovating and building new houses and rent to Hippies and as the neighborhoods in Afghanistan start looking stable , Yuppies will start moving in,the rents will gradualy rise until the hippies can't afford it and just the Yuppies or Hippies who can make the transistion over to Yuppie will live there.Before long the futon furniture stores will appear,followed by the antique shops ,designer casual wear, the 35 dollar barber shops and the Health food stores.It will become a thriving residential and business district.Not all us Yanks just sit around most of the day looking at trails in the sky that are possibly the results of the chems we ingested 30 years ago.Some of us are working on the plan mentioned, And trying to figure how can we make this dream of a Yuppie Paradise become a reality in todays Afghanistan.
-- SM Steve (Unreal@msn.com), February 21, 2002.
I'll answer you questions / observations from the other chemtrail post here.
1. The jets with the "pink" (mauve) bellies are SouthWest Airlines.
2. You noted increased air activity in your area starting in early October.
3. There are a lot of smaller jets flying around with engines in the back.
Now, let me tie a few things together.
Sept. 11th was a disaster for commercial aviation. Airlines that had been losing money before that date really took it on the chin. United, Continental, American, etc,etc EXCEPT Southwest. Why? Because Southwest had the lowest employee to passenger ratio. A no frills airline. So while the big guys were laying off employees and mothballing airplanes, Southwest found themselves scrambling to get MORE airplanes into the air. After a short while, they were flying more and more routes used by the others. Hence more visible presence.
Now, think back to early October. Airports were in chaos. Long lines, half-ass security checks, etc. You're an important big wig. You need to get to an important meeting. ANSWER? Charter a jet. Thousands to choose from. Get right on the plane and off you go. The jets of choice are made by Gulfstream, Dassault, Raytheon, to name a few. And MOST of them have their engines in the rear.
And not just businessmen. Politicians, and military brass were staying away from commercial flights and grabbing anything that could fly. (and still are).
Why are you seeing more aircraft in different places? The U.S. Air Force and Air National Guard have everything that has wings and guns in the air. Hundreds of air sorties per day. Backing up the fighters are the air tankers that are in the air 24 X 7, flying all over the sky, not just on commercial routes.
And what about those commercial routes? Every single route was painstakingly examined for their proximity to nuclear power stations, dams, military bases, etc, etc. And where those routes came too close to potential targets, they were diverted away.
So, like I said before, I STILL don't see a big mystery here, but hope this will clear up some of your concerns and questions.
-- Craig Miller (CMiller@ssd.com), February 22, 2002.
Hi Craig, some good points. That may explain the travel shifts that folks have noticed. Regarding the craft with the engines behind the wings, it wasn't like an Airbus, this is a very different plane, but I am not saying it is military either. I wish I were better at identifying them. I have a nephew in college to become a pilot...well he IS a pilot, I guess it's to become a certified transport pilot...anyway I will ask him about this plane. He could tell the difference between a P-51 and a Corsair at 4, I'm sure he will know.
-- Doreen (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 22, 2002.
Thanks, Craig; I believe I was the first to ask what airlines were hot pink. Way back when. I went to SWA's home page, and sure nug, you're right. And they fly all up and down the west coast, regardless of their name, thus are almost certainly the ones I've seen going over.
Doreen I'd love to see your dad's letter about testing for bacterial fallout. Not that I think it has anything to do with "chemtrails" of course!
-- joj (email@example.com), February 22, 2002.
I have a neighbor that believes that the government is poisoning us by dropping chemicals from the back of planes. He said that he saw it happen one morning before dawn. The chemicals came down in a spider web like mist. He and his son both got sick shortly afterward.
I have another neighbor that believes the local government officals fly over the county looking for improvements on the land so they can tax the landowners for building them.
There is a man incarcerated in this county for believing that the Jews are taking over the world.
The list goes on and on. And I am sure there are many other people that I do not know their stories.
I listen to them anyway. I am not judgemental about their views and it hurts no one for them to think this way.
On forums I feel it is the same way! We talked of things that we are concerned about or find interesting.
I certainly do not worry about chemtrails as my neighbor does, nor to I worry about Planet X. Incidently, Pluto used to be planet X, but after its discovery it was no longer given the mysterious title deemed for planets that are of unknown origin. I do not worry about what the others believe in either.
But, it is refreshing to be able to post these thoughts and get a larger audience of people that may know more about a particular subject than we or our neighbors do. I post my thoughts as do many others. This is the same stuff that we probably discuss with our family, friends and neigbors but, just need the imput of "strangers" to re-affirm whether or not we have been "dupped" into believing in something that does not exist.
Never the less, it is in my opinion that we all have this choice of expression and whether or not you believe in it is your choice as well. But, to call it rubbish or non-exsistant is unfair. Just because you do not have facts, figures, time tables, etc, does not make it not real. Just because you do not see it, does not mean that it does not exist.
I think many people here on these forums are unique an see the world a little closer to reality than average people. Average people are "the worst of the best and the best of the worst" kind of thinkers that just go along with the majority. I for one have never wenth along with the majority. In fact the majority of people are like sheep following a shepard. They rely on the shepard to tell them everything. I SEARCH for answers and truths in my own particular way. I think most on this forum are just as exceptional.
So, if some believe in chemtrails....let them! If some believe in planet X....let them. If you do not believe in Santa Claus....sorry to here that, my children still do. If someone believe that ELVIS is still alive....he probably is, at least in the hearts of millions of his followers!
-- http://communities.msn.com/livingoffthelandintheozarks (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 22, 2002.
Fair comments Ernest but I did say that was my opinion, that Planet X is rubbish, chemtrails I just don't know. Father Christmas, I used to believe in him but somewhere along the line I lost my faith in him.
I have tried to provide reasoned explanations for what I believe. In some discussion I have tried to get people to think rather than just accept whatever they may have read or heard on the radio, I have always tried to avoid scoffing or pouring scorn on what others might think, maybe I have been too close to the mark on occasions but please believe no offence has ever been intended.
-- john hill (email@example.com), February 22, 2002.