Countryside Forum (OH MY GOD NOT AGAIN!!)

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Beyond the Sidewalks : One Thread

I have been wanting to ask this for quite some time, but kept puttin it off, for various reasons.

Some people on the Freedom forum, which I occassionally visit cuz I'm both very snoopy and I often actually agree with them (!) love to blather on about how wonderful CS used to be "in the good ol days." I also think I have heard this kind of sentiment here a few times, and elsewhere. So here it goes......

I signed on to the forum in the Fall of 2000, about a year and a half ago....which is about half the time the forum has been in existance. I came there directly from the magazine, which I have subscribed to since about 1978. Certain people keep referencing back when forum members discussed issues maturely and intelligently, inferring it was always without malice and back-biting, and they mourn for those days which are now long gone.

What I want to know is, what do the members of this forum who were among those originals at CS, think of this? Was it really that wonderful? Did people like Little Bit, before I arrived, discuss issues without all the judgement? Did Joel sound dependably sane? Was Rebecca usually the person of intelligence and generosity she can show herself to be when she's now in a good mood? And the same for Doreen, with whom I often enjoyed an intellectual joust or two......was she called to anger less often? I could pose lots of other questions, but overall, WAS IT REALLY THAT WONDERFUL?

Am I to believe that there were arguements, no nasty sarcasm, within the hallowed halls of the ~~Countryside of the Past?~~ Its so hard to believe! Also, these folks make those of us who entered much later sometimes feel like we ruined the whole damn thing,ya know? :)

Anybody else feel this way, or wonder, perhaps wanna let me know I am once again BONKERS? (it's ok, I can take it) really I can

-- Anonymous, February 21, 2002

Answers

To me, I remember that it wasn't so busy. Less people, less problems. Gerbil was always good for advice...long gone. Little Bit did seem more quite back then. And Joel wasn't so bad either. (not thrilled he's back but...) I even mentioned this on CS. Used to be like here. There can be days before a new question is asked. Know what I mean? I really don't remember so many arguements, just alot of helpful hints. My opinion.

-- Anonymous, February 21, 2002

Good Gracious No Earthmama! I was reading those recent posts and thinking the exact same thing. Some of them were talking about how nice it was just a year ago. I think maybe when people first find it they fall in love (cause it has some wonderful attributes). As they become more personally involved they see some of the ugliness and think that it has changed.

Kim

-- Anonymous, February 21, 2002


I've been on CS since 98?, 99?---pretty early on. I was pretty active there, something like 800+ posts. Initially it was fairly quiet as far as new threads are concerned but the discussions were always mannerly, respectful and helpful. I really got a sense of community.

As I remember it Joel started to post his extreme political views and that stirred up discussion. Right on his heels was Little Bit and her merry band of cyber crusaders with religious discussions. Initially the more moderate people of most religious persuasions would speak up, joining the discussions, and I think we actually did keep it together fairly well for a while. We had some lengthly and lively discussions but things eventually started to heat up.

Joel was often on his extremist political soapbox, often joined by the other conservative members, stirring the fires, and the more liberal or moderate religionists were virtually shouted down by the my way-or-the-highway types of "Christians". It was like co-habiting with the cyber Taliban! Even the most benign philosophical statement would result in a reading of chapter and verse and some "Christian" would be chastising someone for something or another. The irony in this stuff is amazing someties because these free speechers and freedom folks were acting like thot cops and political correctness was the order of the day, except it was Conservative" political correcstness. Things got kinda nasty for a while then it was decided to label the threads as Christian or religious etc.

That didn't last long tho either. Finally Ken became the official moderator but by then Joel had an audience and the bible thumpers were out in force, they started screaming holy hell about freedom of speech etc. Ken started to assert his authority and Joel went ballistic, encouraging folks to drop their subs to CS, calling Ken all kindsa names etc and then elected a self imposed exile. In the mean time Lesley started her Christian Homesteader site and Doreen started her FSR and little bit her forum.

Well, you know the rest. The chronology may not be exact but its my recollection of what happened.

My own part in it was the religious threads. I enjoy a good exchange of ideas concerning religion and spirituality and often got in those discussions. When the threads were labelled "Christian" I joined in, thinking I'm just as qualified to call myself Christian as they are. They don't see it that way tho.

I suspect I am to "them" and religious threads what Joel is to "us" and political threads.

I'm currently in an exchange with Joel. He and Little Bit posted something on CS that sounded like smug gloating to me and that pissed me off. They seem to think their "principled" stand, backed up by their leaving, caused Ken and CS to leave the forum, despite the fact the forum's at least twice as big as it was before they left and thriving from what I can tell.

I don't trust Joel. About two eeks ago Rags, who has sworn to never go there again where "Christ haters" and liberals or something like that are tolerated, initiated a thread on FSR entitled "positive points" or something like that, where he listed several steps that could be taken to cause CS grief. I said it was an absurd idea. Not long after, Joel gave Rags some tips on how to be very disruptive via troll activity and a week or two after that he comes on as all sweetness and light, building bridges to CS etc.

In fairness to Joel I think that was after the big announcement that CS was being turned over to the as yet unselected moderator. It was after Chuck was announced as the new moderator that Joel and Little Bit re-arrived and started two threads.

-- Anonymous, February 21, 2002


Well, I thought it was pretty cool. I moved to CS after TB2000 seemed kind of um, irrelevant! I guess I started posting at CS in early 2000. I actually liked the old posts with Joel and Doreen. Got a few emails from them (and you, too, of course, John!), as well as others.

At the CS forum, we started out mostly polite (perhaps we were tentative?). I liked Rebecca's posts and Leslie's too (and many others). I think once we started getting comfortable, though, we started moving more to our "home bases." I honestly think (and I could be *SO* wrong) that shit started happening mostly after Lil Bit started stirring up the pot, followed by Hoot, etc. I didn't even mind *their* positions so much. What pissed me off, though, were the "me too" folks who never had an intelligent or original thought themselves, but who would post some silly reply in support of some of the controversial posts (as if this were a cheering match). That got old really* fast.

Eventually, I got disgusted and left. That was after I had tons of spam, viruses, and God knows what else thoughtfully sent to my peecee. A couple of folks contacted me to let me know that some of the characters that I thought were in fact different people, were in fact ONE person under many aliases. I had been suspicious about syntax and spelling (as only someone as anal as I am can be...) anyway. Seemed plausible. Seemed like a good reason for many of the "me toos"....

I was going to give up these forums entirely, and then Jim contacted me via email regarding this one. Whew! So I'm still online, boring people with my drivel.

So yes, CS forum was fun at first. It got ugly fast and it seems to have become almost inane at this point. If you could only know some of the snarly, sarcastic replies that I have composed in my head to respond to some of the silly stuff that gets written there, you would wonder how I dare call myself Christian. Oh, that's right...that is the fundamental question! ;-)

(Actually, come to think of it, the Gore/Bush/Nader "election" was what really divided us, although religion was a big factor. Just my $.02, though...)

Rambling again, aren't I?!

-- Anonymous, February 21, 2002


Interesting.

I just visited CS. I had responded to the post "What Shall We Call Ourselves?" with a suggestion of: "My Country Right or Wrong." It got deleted!! Sheesh!! Since some of the stuff posted is just plain WRONG information for living in the country, I didn't think it would be that off base to call it my suggestion! ;-)

-- Anonymous, February 22, 2002



Without spending a lot of time searching the earliest post of mine in Countryside that I could find dates from late 1999.

The CS forum was quieter back then. It was also slower then with fewer people as well. Some old-timers moved on and have been replaced by others. I certainly don't think it's inane, in fact there's a very great deal of useful information coming through there. Discussion forums of any sort are like mining for gold - you have to shovel a lot of country rock before you'll find a nugget of information. You can curse the rock if you like but it won't find you any nuggets any faster or any easier.

Yep, there have certainly been plenty of controversial threads to be sure. Also to be sure, you simply cannot have a well populated, high post volume forum without these little contratempts blowing up occasionally unless you have really rigid moderation. Ken tried to strike a balance between the two and more or less did OK. For receiving seemingly nothing in compensation for his efforts my hat is off to him for having put up with it for so long.

I got my start in online discussion forums in places like misc.survivalism and FIDONET echoes that brooked no moderation and anyone could and eventually would say anything. It's pretty hard to hurt my online feelings. Folks tend to get too wrapped up in these discussion forums and become overly emotionally involved which is not worth it. If things start to get out of hand the moderator should have the intestinal fortitude to put a stop to it. If there is no moderator then folks will just have to learn not to let themselves become emotionally involved in a war of words.

Why so much discussion of what CS does or doesn't do anyway? Let's make an independent identity for this forum. Most of us participate in both places but they ought to be two seperate identities.

.........Alan.

-- Anonymous, February 22, 2002


Amen...Alan!!!! I enjoy a number of forums for very different reasons. Can't see any point in discussion one at another to the extent it is being done these days. Sheesh, like who gives a rip anyway. Sorry, feeling a bit snarly I guess. Just cruising through for a minute and every forum seems polluted with discussions of the others. Oh well, funny.......I am closer to leaving forum life now than ever and I am not involved in any big discussion or emotionally involved. Just bored with the same old same old.

-- Anonymous, February 22, 2002

All of the forums have grown over the years, and not without growing pains. One thing you can sure say is that the everchanging status of CS forums and the newer participants has sure kept it from being dull. Sort of like rearing grandchilden after having kids of your own. I have been able to forge many new frienships and maintained a lot of old ones. I actually tracked Joel down after his anniversary posting to let Doreen know he was back so she could invite him to Freedom forum so that we could have his perspective again. IMO all of the CS originals have great information , no matter what their personal quirks are. I only hope other originals and newbies feel this way of me.

-- Anonymous, February 22, 2002

I think Lit'Bit has always beeen Lit' Bit.I've not looked for a while because everthing has been the same ol' thing cry cry cry!!! and Ken he's a joke it's his way or no way. I seen him coming before JD made him "god"and when Chuck started posting heavy on country families I though he was gonna be next and sure enough!!

I started on C.S. in the early part of 99 and loved it but now it's let's see who can piss someone off today. I love peace and love maybe it's cause I was a hippies baby!!! hehehe

-- Anonymous, February 22, 2002


I came to the CS forum in mid 1999 - just in time for all the Y2K stuff. Alan's stuff back then on food storage was a great help. I also enjoyed talking to the likes of sheepish and Joy, Brad, greenbeanman, Hermit John, John, JOJ.....other names familiar from this site came along a bit later, I think.

Yeah, it was better back then. Little bit didn't go off on her fundie rants quite so often, except when JOJ would get on her about people having litters of childen they couldn't support; and while Hoot always ended his posts with a reference to a certain verse, he wasn't doing the "Jesus is coming - I'm going - you ain't" thing. And when Joel would refer to his "shoot/shovel/shut-up" policy; he was referring to chicken stealing dogs, not his neighbors. Yep, (sigh) those were the good old days...

Seemed like threads would last a long time - 20 or 30 answers to a simple thread like "How do you save money doing laundry". One of my favorite threads was one I started called "Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without" - lots and lots of posts from inventive folk - and where I think I first heard John reference "bottom feeding"!

But then things started getting weird. I used to like Joel (as Joel, not particularly as any of his other personalities) at first, but that man has a serious mental illness. (I too, wondered how Becky managed to have a BSN and do flight nursing when she couldn't spell any better than your average 2nd grader!) I don't have time or energy to listen to paranoid rants like Joel's (well, unless I'm being paid to do so!); nor do I have the patience to wade through the religious postings. Seemed like a post would start out with "How do you worm a goat" and a few people would give some good advice and then someone would pop up and say "Well, I used to worm my goats, but since I gave my life to Jesus I don't have to worm my goats anymore; and if YOU would give your life to Jesus then you wouldn't have to worry about your goats having worms either." Oh, please. Then, if you objected; stating you needed to know whether Ivermectin was safe for goats, not a sermon; 18 other fundies would creep out of the baseboard and lambast you for it!

I was so very glad to see the pagan thread; and to receive an invitation to be one of the charter members at this (the heathen!) board; simply because I expected that I wouldn't have to put up with that sort of nonsense anymore. I also knew from pasts posts that the folks here seemed to have a lot fewer bigoted ideas than on the general forum.

I still drop by CS occasionally; but I read very few of the posts anymore. Sometimes I'll answer a post - I think I answered a doughnut question and a tractor one lately. I also like the gardening questions; since I never get enough garden talk! I drop in on other forums too, but I seem to have become one of the despised lurkers!! Can't think of much to say...

I'm still happy here, and I hope that this forum continues on. I think our best tie to each other is the over the fence chat; as it keeps us aware of what's going on with each other - I know that's what I enjoy the most! I hope to see more folks start posting more often as the season changes and the weather brightens. (Yes, darn it - that was a hint!!) Hugs to you all,

-- Anonymous, February 22, 2002



Mmmm...Sheepish, how about calling it "My Country, Ding or Dong"?

-- Anonymous, February 23, 2002

Now that I can finally stop laughing so hard, I can add my two bits! Yes, the many incarnations of Joel, Sybil has nothing on that man for sure, and like Polly and a few others wondered about, I figure "Becky" is a figment of Joel's imagination as well.

Sheepish is right, what really galvinized us all here as a "group" is the Presidential elections of 2000, most all of us here are of the anything other than the R and D configuration, or would like to be. The pagan thread helped us become a "group" too, these two things I think are what formed the basis of Jim-Bob's invitation to come here. I am glad he did, we got a great group of folks here, greater than I think most of us realize and appreciate. Yep, we disagree about stuff, but the main thing is that we agree to disagree.

Auntie EM, the false nostalgia going on at FSR and strung along by Joel and LBF and others is a form of selective memory, much the same as the Old Fart that holds court from his/her porch rocking chair and regals the "youngsters" with tales of the "good ol' days", you know those same good old days when folks died of cholera, polio, and consumption, when the KKK held complete sway in the South, and when the Mafia ruled in Chicago and New York City, those good old days!

Folks are so afraid of change, but heck, even I got a computer now, and I swore not so very long ago that I never would have one, never, never, never!!! So if that could happen, there is hope for the rest of the world ;-)!!!

-- Anonymous, February 23, 2002


Aunty Em...I can honestly say that I don't know whether or not those early days of CS were wonderful or not. Most all of you folks have been doing the "forum thing" way before I even knew anything about them. We got our Webtv on the last day of 2000 and on New Year's Day '01 I found the CS forum...quite by accident! When I realized that the whole internet thing was laid out before me, I just started checking out anything with a web address :-)! I've been a subscriber to CS since 1977 and when I noticed that there was an address for the magazine of course I checked it out! Then I found The Forum and I thought hey this is way cool!! But my mother always told me "never discuss religion and politics with strangers"! So I steered clear of any controversial subjects and just read livestock and gardening stuff and lurked for awhile. Then I got brave one day and decided to ask how everyone else felt about George Bush....big mistake!! I guess I should've listened to my mother! Anyways, now other than posting an animal response once in awhile (which I try to do very carefully 'cause some people there feel that their way is the only way!) I just lurk at CS and pick up some good advice sometimes. And I've made some good cyberfriends through CS that I keep in touch with now either by messenger or telephone. Even found some fellow homesteaders right here in my own state!!

Like Polly, I was thrilled and surprised to receive an invitation to this group...since I'm not much of a conversationalist and most definitely don't "do" confrontations (although that "Good Wife" thread over on CS has got me pretty wound up)!! But I'm sure glad I'm here now! Like Alan said...we should concentrate on making this place an independent identity and...most of all, I think...keeping it the wonderful "cyberfamily" that it is!!!

-- Anonymous, February 23, 2002


Marcia, I think you'd be surprised -- I didn't get a computer until March of 1999, an old, used 486. I didn't use it much at first, but when I started using it more, I decided it was WAY too slow. So in September of 1999 I got my laptop, which I still use. I think I found the Countryside forum in October of 1999, something like that. Still remember my first post too. Julie didn't get online until July of 2000 (though she did use mine sometimes when I was up there and already knew about CS forum).

Now you've made me curious about the Good Wife thread! I probably will not resist temptation and stay away. Gee, I can avoid staring at a car wreck -- why can't I avoid this stuff?

I didn't realize the connection to the election (hey that rhymes!), but I think it's probably true. That's where we started realizing how much in common we have. But the Pagan thread was a major catalyst. For those who wandered in after we started (before passwording) or were invited later, I should mention that not everyone here is Pagan (or perhaps I should say, Neo-Pagan). In fact, I would say most are NOT. But Jim compiled the original list from the "Pagan-friendly" folks, or at least "Pagan tolerant".

-- Anonymous, February 23, 2002


You really HAVE to check out that "Good Wife" thread, Joy!! Veeerrryyy interesting...but stupid :-)! Who was it that used to say that?!!

-- Anonymous, February 23, 2002


Oh ya...just remembered! The guy wearing the helmut on Rowan & Martin's Laugh In used to say that all the time!!

-- Anonymous, February 23, 2002

I started coming around CS in AUtumn 99. There aren't any good ald days in my opinion, but then I know the tendency of folks (me,too) to remember what we like and not dislike. I am annoyed (already!!) by the return of the heavy christian material. Hoot is back and I am annoyed by that cutesy dialect thing he does-regardless if it is natural to him or not.

-- Anonymous, February 24, 2002

Was that Arte Johnson on Laugh-In? I think so . . . .

Anne, I would say that is NOT 'natural' to Hoot. I remember his older posts before he started "putting on the old hillbilly suit". His sister Ruth doesn't write like that. I don't find it cute or endearing either.

Read the Good Wife thread yesterday. I was glad to see all the women (and some men) treating the quote with the derision it deserved. Although I do think there is something to be said for being welcoming & calm & peaceful for anyone when you see them. No one should be laying their burdens on the other the instant they see them, unless absolutely necessary (such as the cat is stuck in the garbage disposal or the calves are out of their pen)!

-- Anonymous, February 24, 2002


As someone who has taken some heavy hits from Hoot on Lesley's forum and in private from Hoot..........I can assure you it is entirely contrived. I am not happy with the direction that things are going either. But in the same vein.......am less likely to participate anywhere as things continue to be about stuff I would just as soon not be involved in discussing.

-- Anonymous, February 24, 2002

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who's not in "Granpa Hoots" fan club. Way back when Hoot was Ok I thot because he told his little story then either referenced some bible verse or put in a one liner from the bible. I didn't have a problem with that.

I fervently hope he doesn't degenerate into the kindsa posts I see on FSR and some others tho. He lays it on REAL thick.

-- Anonymous, February 24, 2002


Right on, Joy!! Cat stuck in the garbage disposal...hmmm, veeerrryyy interesting!!

-- Anonymous, February 24, 2002

Joy, you obviously know who all the players are better than myself. Hoot just gets under my skin. I don't know his sister. I just wish there was an 'ignore' feature like there is on UBB sites. Then I wouldn't ever soo the posts from Hoot. And Hoot gibson was a well- known movie star in westerns (long since dead). Is this a 'nom de plume'?

-- Anonymous, February 24, 2002

Not at all happy to see Hoot's postings allowed again at CS either, if the man was genuine it would be different, but he is a "wolf in sheep's clothing" sort of person, not what he appears to be, and even from a real hillbilly like myself, the dialect is just way too much!!!

But what did we expect when Chuck is in charge? Knew it was coming, sure didn't take long.

Wonder if Chuck will be so tolerant of differing viewpoints that are distinctly non-Christian? Anyone game to check that out over there ;- )???

-- Anonymous, February 25, 2002


Well, the only way to know for sure is to go and post some non-christian material.

HOW you post it, however, is going to have much to do with the reception it receives.

Sure seems to be a lot of folks wanting to take up old battles where they left off and antagonize each other.

If you don't like Hoot, or Joel, or whoever then why read them? Once you see it's one of their posts just skip it. I've got a couple that I'll pass right over as soon as I see their names on the bottom. Saves me time and heartburn and doesn't bog the forum down with a lot of acrimonious debate.

In my perfect world no one would mention their personal faith in a forum as general as Countryside at all but that's not going to happen. Some folks are just plain going to talk about their beliefs and I'll tolerate them so long as they don't attack mine. They can believe what they want, I'll believe what I do, and we'll all behave in a civil manner towards each other whether we like the other or not.

........Alan.

-- Anonymous, February 25, 2002


Well Annie and ALan, I took the bait ;) and have started a New Year thread over there. Lets see how long it lasts....

-- Anonymous, February 25, 2002

Well done Anne. I think anyone who would post complaining about your post would only succeed in showing their ass. We'll see what happens.

.......Alan.

-- Anonymous, February 25, 2002


"Hoot" and Ruth's birthname is Gibson. She uses/used (not sure) Gibson Girl for awhile, though she has a different "real" last name, being married. I imagine "Hoot" got that nickname somewhere along the line. He actually told a lot about his family in his stories way back when -- when he just put a Bible verse tag line on and no other "witnessing" or whatever he calls it. My memory isn't quite as good as it used to be, but I always have had a mind for trivia. So be careful what you say around me -- you never know what is going to STICK! ;-)

Marcia, the cat in the garbage disposal was a real story. I'll see if I can find it again and post it as a separate thread. It was funny (the cat survived, fortunately).

-- Anonymous, February 25, 2002


Moderation questions? read the FAQ