Fridays and Lent

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Are bivialves meat ? Can i have things like mussels , clams and oysters ?

-- anthony (anthonyeaston@shaw.ca), February 22, 2002

Answers

Top. My unfounded opinion is it's o.k., but you might wait for a better answer before sucking down a plate of oysters on the ol' half shell. MMMMM-MMMMM! Not to mention clam chowder, NE style (blech to that red gunk).

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), February 22, 2002.


Anthony, this is from the old Catholic Encyclopedia:
"... the use of fish, vegetables, mollusks, crabs, turtles, frogs, and such-like cold-blooded creatures is not at variance with the law of abstinence."

[I'm with you on New England clam chowder, Frank!]
JFG

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), February 23, 2002.


The red clam chowder is referred to as "Manhattan-style" clam chowder, and I believe it is tomato-based and somewhat spicy. I too like the Boston or New England style clam chowder, but it is often prepared with a bit of bacon in restaurants, so you might want to fix your own (check out some web recipes) if you want to be sure of what is in it. Or you could just go vegetarian (lacto-ovo) or vegan (aka "strict" vegetarian) for the day also.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), February 23, 2002.

Being an old New Englander myself. I love the old Newengalnd standbys. Boiled lobster with steamed clams dipped in drawn butter for starters. Also the Cod and Haddock are favorites with haddock being the top choice. Now that I am in the Mid westin Illinois my wife and I still eat fish every friday in our preparation for the Mass on sunday as our penitential way of honoring what Christ did for us. Vatican II can not take that away from us and I do enjoy it. Some of our most memorable meals have been on Friday. Since I have retired, I have become the head cook here at home and the joy of cooking has become my love and the joy of seeing my wifes smile after a well cooked meal is worth the effort.

-- Fred Bishop (fcbishop@globaleyes.net), February 25, 2002.

OOPS I said boiled lobster--I should have said steamed lobsters.. it is much more flavorful. The clams are an appetizer to start the meal. Oh yes save the clam juice for the washing of the clams too. The sand in them can break your teeth. And the tomally (Lobster Liver) is an old favorite with the old timers back home too.

GOD has blessed us with some good treasures.. GOOD FOOD.

-- Fred Bishop (fcbishop@globaleyes.net), February 25, 2002.



Hello, Fred. Time for next little fix, as promised.
You wrote: "... my wife and I still eat fish every friday in our preparation for the Mass on sunday as our penitential way of honoring what Christ did for us. Vatican II can not take that away from us and I do enjoy it."

Actually, Vatican II did not say anything about eating (or not eating) fish on Friday. If someone told you that the Council changed this, he/she was mistaken.
The Church requires a penitential practice from each of us on Friday, and abstaining from meat is the most widespread such practice even to this day.

God bless you.
John

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), February 25, 2002.


John,

I'm glad you brought that up. My wife and I just recently learned that all Fridays are supposed to be penitential days since Jesus was sacrificed on this day.

We have decided to continue the no meat sacrifice beyond Lent. Our main problem is neither one of us enjoy any type of fish. However, she has learned how to make a delicious vegetable chili and her pasta fagiole (spelling?) is fantastic. But those days when macaroni and cheese is the main dish leave me desiring!!!!

-- Glenn (glenn@excite.com), February 26, 2002.


John

I know virtually of no catholic that believes that Vatican II did not change the Fish rules on Friday. In fact I know from widespread reading that the Council in fact added two options for penance which are Confession and service to the community, such as helping an elderly person or some welfare assistance of some kind or sevice in a hospital helping or talking to some patients. The Vatican has for years told the Bishops in Washington DC to straighten this out and they have rebuked the order. I keep hoping and praying that these errors and other inconsistancies will someday be corrected, God Willing. John you are so Blessed as you finally made this day much better for me - Thanks to you and Thanks be to GOD.

-- Fred Bishop (fcbishop@globaleyes.net), February 26, 2002.


Hello, Fred.

Please click here to view Pope Paul VI's 1966 document called "Paenitemini." This is the document that authorized Friday penitential practices other than abstinence from meat, if so chosen by the local conference of bishops [and the U.S. conference did so choose].
Note the date of the document -- 1966 -- and the fact that it came directly from the pope. As I have tried to explain on at least one other thread, there were only SIXTEEN documents of Vatican II (the Second Vatican Council, held between 1962 and 1965), and they were all issued by the world's bishops in union with the pope. The document to which I have given you a link is not a Vatican II document. The bishops at Vatican II did NOT authorize a change to the Friday penitence. That was an act of the pope AFTER the end of the Council.

Folks who have one or both of the Flannery books that seem to carry the title "Vatican II" must realize that those books have the 16 documents of the Council ... PLUS dozens of POST-conciliar documents. When a post-conciliar document says something about doctrine, ministries, discipline, law, living out the life of the Church, etc., etc., it is NOT RIGHT to say that "Vatican II" made the statement, instituted the rule, etc..

God bless you.
John
PS: I can't understand what you have just stated about Washington, D.C., and penance. Are you possibly confusing Friday penitential acts with the three forms of the Sacrament of Penance (Reconciliation) -- again, a case of changes that were made by Pope Paul VI AFTER, not during, Vatican II? In 1984, Pope John Paul II issued a document (called "Reciliation and Penance") in which he made this statement: "Following the suggestions of the Second Vatican Council, the Ordo Paenitentiae provided three rites which, while always keeping intact the essential elements, make it possible to adapt the celebration of the Sacrament of Penance to particular pastoral circumstances." The "Ordo Paenitentiae" was the new ritual for the sacrament, issued after the Council by Pope Paul VI, who decided to agree with the suggestions of the council fathers.

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), February 27, 2002.


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