I'm messing around with my first Salt Paper Kit. So to those who's done that, please help out these questions:-

a. The instruction says Silver Nitrate by itself isn't sentitive to light. Does it mean I can mix it into solution in daylight?

b. Can I use the regular rapid fixer to fix the print, instead of using the pack of sodium Thiosulfate that comes with the kit?

c. I've seen some spray starch in the supermarket. Can these sprays be used in place of the salting solution (trying to simplify as well as to get a warm tone here)? Are these sprays acidic? Any brand to recommend?

d. It says the Gold Toner will shift the original warm tone of prints to blue which wouldn't work for me. So what is the minimum time to tone with gold toner for permanance (trying to minimise the blue cast here)? Any other types of toner that will keep the warm tone and at the same time gives permanance to the print?

e. Is relative humidity of surrounding important during printing/coating process?

Thanks,

Aaron

-- Aaron (ngaaron@singnet.com.sg), February 27, 2002

Answers

Silver Nitrate salt IS sensitive to UV and blue light, and prolonged exposure to strong daylight will cause it to turn brown and eventually become useless. Once in solution it isn't very light sensitive, but you should really carry out all the preparation stages in subdued or tungsten artificial light.
Wear rubber gloves when handling Silver Nitrate, and take extra care that it doesn't splash in your eyes. It causes nasty black stains if it comes into contact with skin, and can cause caustic burns.

-- Pete Andrews (p.l.andrews@bham.ac.uk), February 27, 2002.

Let's expand:

a. Silver nitrate is slightly light-sensitive alone, but is VERY light sensitive when mixed with any type of salt and most organic materials. So, take Pete's advice: mix your solution is subdued light, store it in a brown glass bottle with a plastic top, and wear rubber gloves, or it will react with the salt on your skin. Consider staining to be inevitable. You will get little purple (then brown, then black) stains on your hands and fingernails and probably clothing, but these stains will disappear from your skin in about 10 days. b. You can only use rapid fixer WITHOUT solution B (the hardener). In other words PLAIN THIOSULFATE ONLY. The hardener will over-bleach your print. I use the two-bath fixer method - 5 to 10 minutes each. c. I think you're confusing salting with sizing solutions. If all you want to do is size your paper, you can get surprisingly good results with spray starch (sometimes), arrowroot, gelatin or just about any other strachy substance. The salting solution, which is often combined with some sort of starch (there are two reasons for this: first to prevent your paper from shrinking from wetting/drying, and second to suspend the silver chloride particles above the fibers of the paper, rather than allowing them to sink in) provides the basis for light-sensitivity. If you have a high-quality, well-sized paper, you don't even need the starch, but remember that paper quality is VERY important; if you are using a heavy weight without sizing, your print will look like mud, as the image will be lost in the fibers of the paper. It doesn't really matter what type of salt is used either (I tend to use ammonium chloride, but table salt will work fine) - it's the chlorine ions that count. The goal in salting the paper is to deposit enough salt that LOTS of silver chloride is formed when your sesitize your paper. d. This is where the guessing begins. There is no substitute for your own empirical data when toning a salt, albumen or any other silver chloride print. Which gold toner formula are you using? Gold thiocyanate (this is the two part toner) I find to be less predictable than gold borax (this is commonly referred to as the alkalyne toner). I've consistently gotten lovely terra cotta colors from chloride prints using the latter, so if you want a warm tone, perhaps you should consider it. e. Humidity hasn't been an issue for me. Your paper will curl no matter what, but light sensitivity is not affected but humidity.

-- Chad Jarvis (cjarvis@nas.edu), February 27, 2002.

Damn. Sorry about the repeat. I forgot about breaks.

Let's expand:

a. Silver nitrate is slightly light-sensitive alone, but is VERY light sensitive when mixed with any type of salt and most organic materials. So, take Pete's advice: mix your solution is subdued light, store it in a brown glass bottle with a plastic top, and wear rubber gloves, or it will react with the salt on your skin. Consider staining to be inevitable. You will get little purple (then brown, then black) stains on your hands and fingernails and probably clothing, but these stains will disappear from your skin in about 10 days.

b. You can only use rapid fixer WITHOUT solution B (the hardener). In other words PLAIN THIOSULFATE ONLY. The hardener will over-bleach your print. I use the two-bath fixer method - 5 to 10 minutes each.

c. I think you're confusing salting with sizing solutions. If all you want to do is size your paper, you can get surprisingly good results with spray starch (sometimes), arrowroot, gelatin or just about any other strachy substance. The salting solution, which is often combined with some sort of starch (there are two reasons for this: first to prevent your paper from shrinking from wetting/drying, and second to suspend the silver chloride particles above the fibers of the paper, rather than allowing them to sink in) provides the basis for light-sensitivity. If you have a high-quality, well-sized paper, you don't even need the starch, but remember that paper quality is VERY important; if you are using a heavy weight without sizing, your print will look like mud, as the image will be lost in the fibers of the paper. It doesn't really matter what type of salt is used either (I tend to use ammonium chloride, but table salt will work fine) - it's the chlorine ions that count. The goal in salting the paper is to deposit enough salt that LOTS of silver chloride is formed when your sesitize your paper.

d. This is where the guessing begins. There is no substitute for your own empirical data when toning a salt, albumen or any other silver chloride print. Which gold toner formula are you using? Gold thiocyanate (this is the two part toner) I find to be less predictable than gold borax (this is commonly referred to as the alkalyne toner). I've consistently gotten lovely terra cotta colors from chloride prints using the latter, so if you want a warm tone, perhaps you should consider it.

e. Humidity hasn't been an issue for me. Your paper will curl no matter what, but light sensitivity is not affected but humidity.

-- Chad Jarvis (cjarvis@nas.edu), February 27, 2002.

Thanks Pete & Chad for that long explaination. Out of curiosity and excitement, I've taken out the Silver Nitrate to look at during the day. Probably 10 minutes or so out of the box (not direct sunlight). Do you see any problem with that?

It's Gold Borax that comes with it. So that helps. What is the minimum time to tone just for permanance? Are salted prints as archival as gelatin silver prints or Pt/Pl?

Thanks again,

Aaron

-- Aaron (ngaaron@singnet.com.sg), February 27, 2002.

Well, considering that salted paper has been around longer than the Pt/Pd process (like since Fox Talbot invented it in 1839), I'd say that they can be just as permanent. There are plenty of examples of 150 year old salt prints that look as good today as they did when they were created. Untoned prints will remain light-sensitive, so the earliest examples of Fox Talbot's works, such as what's in the Getty collection, aren't even shown the light of day. Toned prints can seemingly last forever if stored correctly.

Just the simple fact of toning will make the print permanent. It's not really a matter of how long to make it permanent, but a matter of how long to achieve the color shift you want. Some things will tone in 30 seconds or a minute, others will take 5 or ten minutes. It depends on the print, the paper, the depth of exposure, the strength of the toning solution and the alignment of the planets.

Looking at your silver nitrate for a minute or two in daylight probably will have no ill effects, though silver nitrate crystals are much more stable than solution.

-- Chad Jarvis (cjarvis@nas.edu), February 27, 2002.

Thanks again Chad, but what is meant by alignment of the planets.

Aaron

-- Aaron (ngaaron@singnet.com.sg), February 27, 2002.

Chad,

It is also said that salted prints has the look of Pt/Pl. Since salted print is a stable process, why would one make a Pt/Pl print that cost much more? Is it because it's easier to achieve a good print with Pt/Pl? More control options, etc.?

Appreciate it.

Aaron

-- Aaron (ngaaron@singnet.com.sg), February 27, 2002.

Salted paper is not automatically as stable as Pt/Pd. It is rather reputed to be pretty unstable if you don't process it correctly. The silver particles which form the image are much smaller than those of gelatine silver prints (this is true for other alternative silver processes as well), which means that they have to be protected, or otherwise the image deteriorates with time (though I don't know in which time). Toning therefore is *necessary*, gold being the most common choice, and platinum also possible. Platinum prints also have to be processed corractly, or otherwise the residual iron turns brown. The picture itself, being formed of platinum particles, is absolutely stable. One reason for salt prints is simply that they are cheaper to make, but a gold-tomed print as a colour which many find attractive. It is certainly not blue, but often of a cold, maroon shade of brown, with quite deep blacks. The image quality of a well executed print is fully up to the standart of the very best platinum prints. For me, it is intriguing that one of the oldest processes known can deliver a quality which is not surpassed by any other process. Are you aware that you need negatives of an as long density scale as for pure palladium? I highly recommend pyro negs, they take half an eternity to print out, but may deliver outstanding quality. A few suggestions for the printing: I don't know whether your kit contains wither citric acid or sodium citrate: one such organic substance is *necessary*, and these are the most common (I think). You need to either mix sodium citrate into the salting solution, or the citric acid with the silver nitrate (this is what I do). In the last case you get some white precipitate, do not be concerned about that. 100 ml water take 12g silver nitrate + 6 g citric acid (store in a brown bottle). Try this with a salting solution of 40g sodium chloride to 1 l. I recommend against coating the salting solution in some way, just immerse the paper in it for some minutes. The silver solution can be brushed on (habe brush or foam applicator), I prefer the glass rod, because you spend less in this way (for an 8x10 print, I use 2 1/2 ml, with a brush I would need at least 5). Paper: not all work. I normally use Fabriano Artistico. It is heavily sized, and I don't need to size it further. Sizing, however, is necessary with other papers, for example Arches Platine, and it may improve the performance of any paper. I prefer gelatine to starch, and I brush a 3% solution on with a foam applicator, then harden with glyoxal (has to be washed out again). I would not use starch sprays, because you don't know about the additives, and silver nitrate reacts with almost anything. For me, humidity is a factor: I only get good results when the paper is very dry when coated and when exposed, which means on rainy days I need some chemical drying help (calcium chloride, silica gel). Print the highlights one stop more than you want it in the final print. Be not concerned about shadow detail: it will reappear. I take a rapid fixer on ammonium thiosulphate base, WITHOUT hardener of course, and I add a teaspoon on arm and hammer soda in 1 l working solution: this prevents that the fixer sinks too deep into the paper, and the picture bleaches to a lesser extent. Use a washing aid, wash extensively. It is normally recommended to tone before fixing; I tone after fixing, washing and drying. Before gold toning, I usually iron the print from the backside, which intensifies the print, and further improves internal tone separation. Along with another instruction, this may get you started.

-- Lukas Werth (lukas.werth@rz.hu-berlin.de), February 28, 2002.

Sorry, just a correction: half a teaspoon of soda to the fixer should be enough.

-- Lukas Werth (lukas.werth@rz.hu-berlin.de), February 28, 2002.

Hi Lukas,

That sounds good enough information to get me started. I'm relieved to hear that toning is not going to make the print blue. Thanks for a couple of good tips.

I've got negatives overdeveloped (over normal time) at between 70 to 100 per cent. These negs are exposed for highlight on Zone VIII. Do they sound ideal negatives to start with?

Paper options is a problem here where I live (almost everything photographic here is). But I can get Rives BFK (ph 6.1). Have you tried this one?

Appreciate it,

Aaron

-- Aaron (ngaaron@singnet.com.sg), February 28, 2002.

Again Lukas,

Would it be correct to assume that you tone your prints in good light since they're already fixed. Thus letting you better guess the tone shift you desire?

Also, how much of washing is needed before and after toning?

Thanks again,

Aaron

-- Aaron (ngaaron@singnet.com.sg), March 01, 2002.

Aaron, yes, I tone in daylight, or whatever. People say the downsight of this is that there is not so much colour shift; it is, however, readily observable. I personally always give full toning (12 minutes); the colour depends somewhat on how many prints have gone through the borax toner already, and whether it is replenished or not. Another downsight is that you have to wash and dry twice. I have two reasons for sticking to my procedure: 1) I gather a few prints, and tone them in one day. This allows me to use up the gold in the borax toner (it doesn't keep). I calculate 4 8x10 prints can be toned by 5cc of 1% gold chloride. 2) the ironing step. This is mentioned in the literature as an alternative, already found by Talbot, to toning with noble metals. I however, can in this way observe the effect clearly, and I have yet to make a print which would not be improved by it. To be honest, I am not sure whether and to what extent it works also after toning - I tried it once, seems to be less - but as in all alternative processes, for which there are no industrial standarts, there are endless possibilities of experimenting, and there comes a time for me when I just stick to a method which gives me satisfying results - until something itches me again to do further experiments. You can, for instance, easily spend months or even years with salt prints just to work out different combinations of sizing, paper, salts to be used and organic acids in the silver nitrate solution. And there is more...

Washing: cannot be done too much. I always use a washing aid (sodium sulphite with EDTA, in my case, but Kodak hypo or an equivalent is fine), and then keep the paper in running water for an hour or more. After toning, I again wash for an hour. (By the way, a print fixed but not properly washed instantly destroys your toner.)

A last point: if you stick to this, subscribe to the alt photo list (I just do not have the address handy, find it via keyword search, also "alternative processes"). The possibility of asking there is immensely helpful if you seriously try to master an alternative process, and you will be able to work out your own method.

-- Lukas Werth (lukas.werth@t-d1-sms.de), March 01, 2002.

Lukas,

Thanks for the many pointers. That is very educational. Really appreciate it.

Aaron

-- Aaron (ngaaron@singnet.com.sg), March 01, 2002.

Aaron, sorry, for some reason I did not read your first question. About negatives: you have to try. In general, I would say, the right negatives for salt prints have to be very long scale: if I am rehearsing correctly, the process should be able to print 12 zones! The gradation scale of HP5, for instance, has a shoulder at the upper end which you have to overcome, or you will not get clear and well separated highlights. Probably your kit contains some potassium dichromate for contrast control: it has to mixed in the salting solution. Very little, producing a barely perceptible colour shift in the freshly salted paper, already effectively sparkles the print up. But use too much, and the paper takes for ever to expose, and tonality will degradate: this is a tool which helps you to optimize certain motives, but not to beef up faulty negatives. As for paper: I have tried once Rives BFK for palladium where it did at first seemed to work, but did not produce optimal results. If you are going to try this paper, maybe you should give it a hot bath first, then size it with gelatine, and then - after drying - salt it. This is at least what I would try.

-- Lukas Werth (lukas.werth@rz.hu-berlin.de), March 01, 2002.

Hi Lukas,

Thanks again. I'll get to work soon. Hope it works out.

Aaron

-- Aaron (ngaaron@singnet.com.sg), March 02, 2002.