Mary the mother of Jesus

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Mary was human like us and had to be concieved in like manner. So Adam's sin had to be passed onto her also. Jesus was placed in the womb by God...it was totally different...that is why he was not concieved in sin. Does the Catholic Church actually believe that Mary was sinless? If so, how can you believe that? I would also like scriptural references explaining her being without sin. In my bible I read that ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Thank you for any reference that can prove Mary (Jesus's mother) was born without sin. Judy

-- Judy (inhishand65@yahoo.com), February 27, 2002

Answers

Judy

Let me say this: Would it make any sense to you if Christ the New Adam would not come from a woman of great sin rather from the New Eve who was born sinless through the Grace of GOD? If he came form a sinful woman then his mission would have been fruitless. The Angel did say that she was blessed by the almighty and was to concieve the Son of the Most High. I don't think there is any mystery there on her special place in human and spiritual history.

-- Fred Bishop (fcbishop@globaleyes.net), February 27, 2002.


Judy,

In Luke 1, when Gabriel comes down to visit Mary, he hails her and calls her "favored one". In older translations, it says "Full of Grace." I think one should probably have to read the original Greek text to comprehend, but in order for Mary to be "Full of Grace," she would have to have been graced ever since birth. She cannot be completely graced if she had scars of sin on her.

Another argument for Mary not having sin is that she is considered the "New Ark of the Covenant." The original Ark contained the Ten Commandments and was so holy that only certain people (Levites?) were allowed to touch it.

Because Jesus is the Word made Flesh, Mary was his Ark and because she "contained" the Word of God for nine months, she had to be holier than the original Ark of the Covenant which would mean that she had no stain of sin whatsoever.

Dennis

-- Dennis Santillan (dennis_santillan@excite.com), February 27, 2002.


Good explanation, and all true, Dennis. Just the one detail, and I'm sure you agree:

Mary was conceived without sin; and that means in the very start of her life as a fetus in her mother's womb. This is at the first moment of conception. In our own conceptions we are stained from the start by the sin of our father Adam. Original sin is a fact from that moment on until our holy baptism. Mary was saved from this stain at the start.

The Immaculate Conception is a mystery making Mary sinless for the sake of her Son-to-be, Our Lord. For the same clear reason, Mary was to remain free from sin for all eternity, not just her life in this world.

If she had been guilty of even a venial sin during her lifetime, her relation with Jesus would have been corrupted. He would have been betrayed by His own mother.

God preserved her from this all her life; and we know this, because He made her ''Full of Grace''. It was the grace which preserved her; and she had that grace from God-- who can't FAIL in anything He wills.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 27, 2002.


Judy

"Preaching is a gradual work: first one lesson, then another. Thus were the heathen brought into the Church gradually. And in like manner, the preaching of Mary to the children of the Church, and the devotion paid to her by successive ages. Not so much was preached about her in early times as in later. First she was preached as the Virgin of Virgins--then as the Mother of God--then as glorious in her Assumption--then as the Advocate of sinners--then as Immaculate in her Conception. And this last has been the special preaching of the present century; and thus that which is earliest in her own history is the latest in the Church's recognition of her." (John Cardinal Newman)

-- Mike H (michael.hitzelberger@vscc.cc.tn.us), February 27, 2002.


Jmj

Judy, you used a turn of phrase that is not accurate. You stated:
"Jesus was placed in the womb by God...it was totally different...that is why he was not concieved in sin."

Jesus was not "placed" in Mary's womb. This makes it sound as though he was totally divine and not at all human. The fact is that he is both fully divine and fully human, because he took flesh from Mary. He was truly a human embryo -- because the Holy Spirit of God, in a pure, non-sexual way, "fertilized" one of Mary's ova.

Now, it is true that God could have absolutely purified Mary's soul and body (including her ova) just before the Annunciation by the angel Gabriel. But Christianity instead teaches that it was most fitting for God to prepare Mary for that day (conception of Jesus) from the moment of her own immaculate conception in her mother's womb -- and that is what he did.

Judy, you wrote: "In my bible I read that ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." I am sure that you wish to use this to show that Mary was a sinner. However, if you want us to take that verse literally, we must assume that the following people "have sinned": Jesus himself, newborn babies, profoundly retarded people, and people who were born in (and always stayed in) a coma. But if you can join me in saying that those people are exceptions (having never sinned), then you have to admit that Mary may have been an exception too!
LESSON TO LEARN: Interpret the Bible literally when it was intended literally, but not literally otherwise. How can you know when it was intended literally? Become a Catholic, and you will learn! That is the only way. You cannot do it on your own or by following the teachings of a fallible non-Catholic preacher of some kind.

Judy, you wrote: "Thank you for any reference that can prove Mary (Jesus's mother) was born without sin."
Another thing that you need to realize, Judy, is that no one is required to search the Bible and come up with verses to "prove" this, that, or the other thing. Without a doubt, many verses do offer evidence for various beliefs, but the Bible is not the only source of religious truth -- nor is it self-interpreting. We must rely on a complementary source of truth, as well as an authentic intepreter of the biblical passages. Only Catholicism has all the pieces to the puzzle.

God bless you.
John

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), February 27, 2002.



Genesis 3:9-15, 20

The LORD God then called to the man and asked him, "Where are you?"

He answered, "I heard you in the garden; but I was afraid, because I was naked, so I hid myself."

Then he asked, "Who told you that you were naked? You have eaten, then, from the tree of which I had forbidden you to eat!"

The man replied, "The woman whom you put here with me--she gave me fruit from the tree, so I ate it."

The LORD God then asked the woman, "Why did you do such a thing?" The woman answered, "The serpent tricked me into it, so I ate it."

Then the LORD God said to the serpent: "Because you have done this, you shall be banned from all the animals and from all the wild creatures; On your belly shall you crawl, and dirt shall you eat all the days of your life.

I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; He will strike at your head, while you strike at his heel."

The man called his wife Eve, because she became the mother of all the living.

QUOTE Commentary:

He will strike . . . at his heel: since the antecedent for he and his is the collective noun offspring, i.e., all the descendants of the woman, a more exact rendering of the sacred writer's words would be, "They will strike . . . at their heels." However, later theology saw in this passage more than unending hostility between snakes and men. The serpent was regarded as the devil (Wisdom 2:24; John 8:44; Rev 12:9; 20:2), whose eventual defeat seems implied in the contrast between head and heel. Because "the Son of God appeared that he might destroy the works of the devil" (1 John 3:8), the passage can be understood as the first promise of a Redeemer for fallen mankind. The woman's offspring then is primarily Jesus Christ.

END QUOTE

"Does the Catholic Church actually believe that Mary was sinless? If so, how can you believe that?"

If God created the world he can certainly create a sinless being. The angels were totally enlightened from birth. If Jesus was to correct the "original sin" of Genesis for mankind then there had to be a pure source from which to be born from when he arrived here. What a joke it would be for Satan to laugh about if Jesus was born from a spurious, irregular, inferior, women of questionable origin. No defeat of Satan could be currently taking place without the Immaculate conception of Mary.

-- Mike H (michael.hitzelberger@vscc.cc.tn.us), February 27, 2002.


A knowledgable and considerate answer John. I think we posted about the same time so I didn't get a chance to read your post first. You were considerate about the misunderstandings realized by our seperated bretheren and knowledgable about the Incarnate Word having two natures and what that means. Actually if I had read your post first I may have not posted at all! Peace

-- Mike H (michael.hitzelberger@vscc.cc.tn.us), February 27, 2002.

One very important development which took place in the mid 1800's was the Visitation of Our Holy Mother at Lourdes France where she proclaimed " I am the Immaculate Conception " to an unschooled peasant girl.

-- Jean Bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), February 28, 2002.

Yes, Jean,
Most of us know of the ''Lady'' that favored Bernadette of Lourdes with many apparitions.

Bernadette was a teenage girl who was looked upon in school as very backward. Not very bright.

For weeks she went to see the Blessed Virgin in a grotto; and it hardly entered her mind she was Mary at all! Others would ask what she saw. She would just say a ''beautiful lady'' Nothing more. Later when the priests ordered her to inquire of this lady what her NAME was, the answer she received was, ''I am the Immaculate Conception.'' When she reported the answer and this name to the priest; Bernadette had to confess she didn't KNOW what the words meant at all. She simply repeated the name as best she could, in obedience to the priest. Things like these cannot be invented. We know she had really seen and spoken to the Mother of God.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 28, 2002.


Not long ago, I received this e-mail message from a (non-Catholic Christian) co-worker:

"Is there such a thing as a male Ladybug and if so what are they called?"

The first line of my reply to him was a joke, but then I replied seriously, after having done some research that revealed things that were a very pleasant surprise ...

Yes, there is such a thing as a "male Ladybug" ... and they are called "laddy-bugs."

But seriously ... according to my dictionary, "ladybug" is the common name for a certain species of beetle, so it must be proper to speak of male ladybugs, female ladybugs, and baby ladybugs!
The reason is that the name does not come from the sex of the insect, but from "Our Lady," a term that some Christians use for the Virgin Mary. ("Notre Dame" is French for "Our Lady.")
In Scandinavia, the ladybug is called the "Virgin Mary’s Golden-hen" or "Lady’s Key-maid." In France, it’s known as the "Animal of the Virgin." In Germany, it’s the "Maiden’s Beetle." In Britain, it's the "Ladybird Beetle."
Why? During the Middle Ages, swarms of aphids and other pests were destroying crops, so farmers prayed to the Virgin Mary, the mother of Jesus, for help. Soon after, ladybugs came and ate the bad pests and saved the crops. The farmers called these bugs, "Beetles of Our Lady" and they eventually became known as "ladybugs".

God bless you.
John

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), March 01, 2002.



Dear John,
A very beautiful example for the faithful, of Our Lady's holy intercession and concern for us her children.

One of the sweetest heavenly joys in the next life (after Christs's great Glory is revealed) will be the actual sight of all Mary's holy conquests for her divine Son in the temporal world since the Incarnation. In a facet of the Beatific Vision, past and present will seem before us; as it has undoubtedly been to some holy mystics in their lifetimes.

From start to finish, with her Immaculate entrance into the world; to the annunciation, the Nativity of Jesus, the Flight into Egypt, the wedding feast of Cana. To the Via Crucis, and Our Lady of Sorrows, to every other event in which Mary participated on earth: All will be revealed in glory. Because Mary, despite what opponents of our Church think, is without Peer in all Creation.

There is no human or angelic equivalent to her grace and majesty; Her Son alone Superior. Because He's God.

But no other equivalent has ever existed. Not even Eve in her innocence; the mother of all the living. Because, sadly, Eve knew sin.

Holy Mother of God-- With love we and devotion our hearts cry unto thee; Pray for us in our Exile; that we made be made worthy of the promises of Christ, Our Lord. Amen!

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), March 01, 2002.


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