This was originally posted in a slightly different form in response to the thread about Dell Computers and Gun Control. However, I think the ideas that I express here are broadly applicable and pertinent to the situations that face us today.

Several people on this forum are praising Dell Computers for actions they have recently taken. (In a nutshell, Dell cancelled an order to a gentleman who runs a firearms business because his company name includes the word "combat". Although they later relented, Dell states that the Government requires "suspicious" purchasers to be checked out. Read all about it on the Dell/Handgun tread from 2/28). I was shocked that some people on this forum were praising Dell for their actions in initially refusing to sell to this business owner because of the nature of his business. You may be a proponent of gun control, and that is your right. But time and time again I find myself explaining situations like these to individuals who would limit the rights of others (freedom to operate a legal business)in order to further their own beliefs. Sure people can disagree, that's democracy, but I for one am dismayed at the mentality that has swept this nation in the name of "SECURITY" since September 11th. Sure the WTC events were horrible, but has it really made us all so afraid that we are willing to give up fundamental freedoms to remain safe? Do you want people poking into your background all the time? It already happens and it will soon be a lot more prominent in this new climate. I highly doubt that any of us are any safer with these new "measures" that have been implemented. Bear in mind that Dell's policy is to screen all customers for their potential to committ electronic or other forms of wrongdoing. How absurd. Do they refuse to sell to Wall Street corporations who are plundering our natural resources or agribusiness interests that are flooding our nation with Genetically Modified "food"? Of course not. I urge you all to put aside your individual opinions on the right to bear arms (or similar issues) and see this episode as representative of the post September 11th climate that condemns any practices outside the norm. Solar Power?..how seditious, you're undermining the economy. Herbal or Naturopathic Medicine?...please, you're just a quack who refuses the FDA's "best science". Homeschoolers?...your children won't be able to adjust to society! How will they achieve the American dream of a sprawling suburban compound and a SUV? If any of the above statements strike a chord with you, than it is important to realize that as homesteaders we are all in danger of being viewed as seditious elements. Some may welcome this. Others just want to go along with their chosen lives. But if this atmosphere of fearing anything outside the norm, be it gun owners, Reiki healers, people who ride bikes to work, vegetarians, outspoken Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, Rastafarians, what have you, continues, then we are all in danger of having the freedom to pursue an alternate lifestyle taken away. Let's realize that we agree on many things as homesteaders, and the things that we do disagree on are OK. But we must stick together to insure that we continue to be able to pursue life choices that are outside of the accepted envelope. Remember the story that says, "When they came for the ________ I did nothing because I was not a _________ . But when they came for me, there was no one left to speak up". Respectfully,

-- Jeff (jeffcantara@hotmail.com), March 01, 2002

Answers

Thanks Jeff, DITTO! Loudly.The irony is this: beacause I have children I worry all the more about how they will be allowed to live, I should be speaking out and getting more "involved" on a lot of isues that will affect them and their childrens lives, HOWEVER, because I have these children, I have to safegaurd thier well being by Not putting our family in any spotlight or'making waves' since we already live in a rigid enough world to put them at risk. So the circle goes!

-- Novina in ND (homespun@stellarnet.com), March 01, 2002.

I feel that you are right on jeff and unfortunately the train is gonna keep on rolling. I find myself increasingly pessimistic in regard to the future. Dissent will be crushed in one way or another whether physically, financially etc. We(Americans in general) , as a culture , will never unite to stop this insanity because we have become softened and converted to money worshipping, self centered sheep. The right has scared us into thinking community oriented thoughts and practices are inspired by "Godless Commies", while the left has allowed their once noble goals to be corrupted by the same statist, power hungry, corporate elitist thugs who despise the homesteader mentality. LORD HELP US

-- mongkesbrotherogodei (keithmedic@yahoo.com), March 01, 2002.

Here's another example of how our lives are being more and more controlled, in ways most of us don't even know about. I suppose that just after time began, people discovered the insect repelling quality of pennyroyal. For as long as I can remember, pennyroyal oil has been used when storing wool and wool clothes, blankets, etc. Now, I can't find pennyroyal oil on the market - anywhere. When I ask why a company no longer sells it, I'm told that sometimes women used it to abort themselves. That makes it a "dangerous" substance and since companys don't want to be connected with something like that, they no longer carry it. And I'm told, yes, there is considerable pressure from the FDA for not selling it.

Using that same line of thought - businesses don't want to be (and shouldn't be) assocaited with anything "harmful" or "against society's values", then all vehicles should be outlawed. Irresponsible use of vehicles causes many more deaths every year than pennyroyal oil, so to "protect" society, no one should be allowed to sell - or buy - vehicles! Eureka! Society is protected!!!

-- Carol - in Virginia (carollm@rockbridge.net), March 01, 2002.

You are so right, Carol! We must do away with vehicles. While we're at it, we'd better alert the government on the dangers of belts. Some people have used them to hang themselves! NO MORE BELTS! We'd better get rid of eyeglasses, too. People could break them, and then use the glass shards as weapons on airplanes!

Before you know it, we'll be a society of folks blindly walking around, bumping into each other with our pants around our ankles! LOL! Whew..... I feel safer already!

-- Cheryl in KS (cherylmccoy@rocketmail.com), March 01, 2002.

I have never been fond of guns. They scare me. They're loud and they kill things, people included. My husband owns several shot gun type guns. I don't know - they're the long ones. I always made him check to make sure they were unloaded and that they hung with the shooting end toward and exterior wall of the house. Paranoid, huh? Late this summer my husband taught me how to use two of them. I actually had fun shooting at the targets. Then he took me squirrel hunting. We only got one, and I did shed a tear or two for the cute little guy, but he's tucked away in the freezer now waiting for some others before he gets to the table. Then September 11th hit. I got scared. Even living in the middle of nowhere, I got scared. Now the guns are loaded (we don't have kids), still pointing to an exterior wall though, and I slept with one by my bed for a couple weeks. That made my husband nervous. :) Anyway, my point is, that once I was educated on how to use them I wasn't scared of them anymore. A little nervous still, but I think that's ok. Guns not to be played with or taken lightly and safety lies in education. I will fight tooth and nail before I let anyone take our guns away.

Stace

-- Stacey (stacey@lakesideinternet.com), March 01, 2002.

Hi Jeff,

There are too many "little" things that we let go in the name of government deciding how to protect us. Disciplining children, housing of animals, wells, septic tanks, house construction, are all regulated to a great degree. We are so regulated by government that one day it will be against the law to have a homestead unless it meets such and such regulation. Little by little things that we once took for granted have changed. How many times do I see on this forum someone cautioning another to check the zoning laws, check with the local agency, etc. before that person does whatever it is they wanted to do. Is that because deep down, we see what is happening and don't have clue how to stop it?

On the other hand - there are now three rows of seats in some SUVs (read the USA Today) that the government is allowing manufacturers to place in the SUV. Problem with the third row of seats? If someone hits the SUV from behind, the seat can collapse throwing said occupant out the rear and guess what? Dead occupant. Government knows this, crash tests have proven that can happen, and the laws governing seat safety have not been changed in something like 34 years. So who is the government really protecting??? Not you and me in this case.

If I had a choice I would start my own nation, just so I could be left alone and unprotected. I really think I know how to insure that I won't die if my barn is uphill of my house. But the government says differently. Says barn has to be 200 feet from house and downhill or placed where runoff will not encroach on house. Do I need a zoning law to tell me that? Or can I learn from experience that poop runs downhill?

There are all these little laws that no one thinks about since the law hasn't hit them upside the head. Only when hit upside the head does anyone get upset. I have been watching the list of laws grow steadily since I was in college. There are those who say that if you don't like USA, go to another country and see how they operate. Well I have. Lived in Mexico, been in Canada for extended periods, lived in Italy and Germany. Sure it is not perfect there either. I am not asking for perfect - just to be left alone by government. I hate to see what this country will be like in fifty years. Will my children be allowed to have large acreage or will land ownership be so regulated that only the corporations and wealthy can own it? Will small farming be regulated to the point that there will be only wholesale large farming (look at the dairy industry and the chicken industry?) So many laws that one gets dizzy just trying to comply. So the small farmers get out leaving the large corp. to run farming. Small can't compete with large and don't receive all the benefits that large corp. farmers do.

But still we sit and we watch and we wait. We say that it's not so bad, it's for our own safety, it's for someone else's safety. When deep down we know the truth. These laws weren't created to help us, but to control us. It doesn't matter if you are for gun control or not, but you should have that choice. I predict there will come a day when the USA will be like some European countries and you will not have a choice. That choice will have been made for you by our protective government. What a sad day that will be. It is not about actually owning the gun, but having the choice as to whether to have one or not. Choosing what is best for your children, your animals, your homestead, your choice to homeschool or not is a fundamental part of living here in the US. So I agree with the part about sticking together to protect our interests. Homesteading is a way of life, and it takes a big committment to stick with this way of life.

Homeschooling right now is getting a bad rap due to the Andrea Yates trial (how tough it was for her to homeschool all those children). Should government ban homeschooling? No. I think the many of you who homeschool do an admirable job and I personally don't think that homeschoolers are any more prone to child murder than any other segment of the population. But there are people talking about this lifestyle now more than ever..wife at home, homeschooling children, submitting to her husband, etc, etc. (all the above reported on the news this morning for those who must have proof that this subject is getting WIDE SPREAD attention). This is how the "protect the homeschool children" hysteria gets started and also how laws get passed banning this or that. I hope that each person here thinks about how laws or potential laws can affect their lives. And don't wait until you get hit upside the head with a law to protest the passage of inane, ludicrous bills.

-- Cindy (colawson@mindspring.com), March 01, 2002.

Had a person at work complaining about what the democrats were doing one day. I said that most Americans didn't care and he said "I care". When I asked him if he had ever written his elected representatives and he said "no". I told him it didn't look like he cared to me.

"Anyone willing to trade a little freedom for a little security deserve neither". Thomas Jefferson

-- Mike (uyk7@hotmail.com), March 03, 2002.

"Submitting to one's husband" should be getting the bad rap, not homeschooling or being a stay at home spouse.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 03, 2002.

I would also add that it is common to see signs such as "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone!" in both small businesses and large. If you own a business, you may even post such a sign yourself--it's your right, as long as you are not discriminating on the basis of race, creed, color, and the rest of what that law says. As far as I know, nothing about discriminating against what business someone does.

I remember reading a few years ago, about a small, family-owned appliance store that refused to sell refrigerators to Planned Parenthood, on the grounds that they believed PP would use them in the furtherance of providing abortions, instead of for children's vaccines, which is what PP said at the time, as I recall (as an aside, PP would not be my first thought for pediatric care, but I digress). Lots of letters to the editor over that, but bottom line is that this is a free country, you don't like this company's policies, you can always shop somewhere else.

In the case of Dell, I am sure that they are also looking at potential lawsuits against them (same with the gun manufacturers, I might add) for something some person does with their equipment (or gun). Under the "deep pockets" rule, the perpetrator of a crime will never be sued, just everyone else even peripherally attached (computer maker, gun manufacturer) who has assets to go after. Maybe getting rid of the deep pockets rule would make manufacturers a little less leery about selling to people, I don't know.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 03, 2002.