Question of the week : LUSENET : Freedom! self reliance : One Thread

Israel has survived so far because of it's historically famed toughness and coupled with support from the US,which has on many occacasions deterred Arab aggression.

As peace seems to be fading further and further away between Palestine and Israel. And U.S.'s failure to bring peace becomes more clear and we continue to spread ourselves ever so thin,militarily,through out the world,are we going to eventually step aside and possibly let the German run EU handle things in the future? And should we?

-- TomK(mich) (, March 03, 2002


nope,, US wont let someone else do that,, adn I think we should pull ALL forces back,, and not go running to every little stinking country that cant take carre of things for themselves. We should cut military spending,, considerably,, and take care fo business at home,, I say let canada do something for a change

-- Stan (, March 03, 2002.

We should not step aside. The Bible says those who bless Israel will be blessed. You can take that to the bank!


-- PoePoe (, March 03, 2002.

Well said Poe Poe

-- Cindy (SE. IN) (, March 03, 2002.

what about the people who dont beleive the bible? shoudl they go and fight ? Beside,, they dont want the US there anyways,, let them deal with themselves

-- sam (, March 03, 2002.

Well there are more issues here than just Israel. My opinion is that we should pull our troops out of the position of UN Global Police Force, and bring the vast majority of them home and stop giving such cause to other nations to hate us for being a big lumbering bully sticking our noses where we don't belong and are not wanted.

However, as far as Israel goes, we should stick with them and help them in whatever way we can. BUT we should also make sure that they are indeed our friends and not give them free license to sell arms to those who would be our enemies.I think that is called surety.

-- Doreen (, March 03, 2002.

Sam, what you believe about Bible or God does not change His reality one whit.

A historical study shows the truth that those that abused or turned their backs on God's chosen people pay for it dearly.

Each man to his own conscience.

-- Laura (, March 03, 2002.

I can see protecting Israel, but not the Arab world in general, particularly as they seem to be so ungrateful (such as making it difficult for service personnel to have Bibles, wanting servicewomen to wear abayahs (or whatever they are), etc.

As an aside, I thought that McSally's suit over that was valid, but NOT for religious reasons--her suit should have been over the fact that dressed in 10 yards of restrictive clothing, she could not do her job properly.

I also feel that if we had continued on the road Carter had begun (don't agree with everything he did, but he did have some good ideas) as far as fuel efficiency and conservation we would be a LOT closer to complete self-sufficiency as a nation by now and could choose who we wanted to do business with.

No, I don't want drilling in the Alaskan wilderness--I want more efficient cars, trucks, and SUVs (which a lot of us have to buy because cars aren't made for tall people, or people with children in carseats). We could save more in simple fuel efficiency than we could ever get out of Alaska. The technology is already here, the companies just aren't making it available.

Also, perhaps some safety rules on cars could be lifted, at the owner's choice. I remember reading in the 70's how someone took a VW bug, turned the engine on its side, took off the roof, bumpers, and windshield (probably windows, cranks, etc.), used airplane tires (higher pressure, I guess?) and got close to 100 mpg. If people are so concerned about safety, why are motorcycles still on the road? Just a thought.

We used to have an old Ford Falcon that you could stand inside where the engine was, there was 1)that much space, and 2)it wasn't crammed with air conditioning and other stuff. Power this and power that is extra weight, for example (not to mention expensive to fix when it goes out), and it is getting more and more difficult to get vehicles without this stuff now.

We are a large enough country blessed with abundant resources and some of the best minds in the world. We should be going into conflicts (where we must) for the RIGHT reasons, not over over oil or other mere business interests.

-- GT (, March 03, 2002.

Laura, I just don't go along with the 'God's chosen people' bit, it seems like extreme racism to me.

-- john hill (, March 04, 2002.

John Hill, you need to take that up with God, then. We can't settle it here.

-- Doreen (, March 04, 2002.

John, what Doreen said.

-- Wendy@GraceAcres (, March 04, 2002.

Israel will do quite well because God said so...nations who oppose Israel will not..because God said Doreen said, argue with the Lord over that one. Aside from supporting Israel, I believe we should pull troops from everywhere and let the countries fend for themselves unless we are specifically invited to assist. Let the Kuwaities worry about Iraq, let South Korea worry about the North..let the Somalians kill each other if they want far as a strong military, the stronger we are, the more we are able to defend ourselves from the crazies...I liked our defense budget in the 1950s didn't have to send reservists to do a full -time military operation..I also like the made young folks grow up really fast and have some responsibility handed to them..a very unpopular view nowdays..everyone wants to be safe and secure, but as long as the other guy does the fighting.Oh well, back to the chickens and the meal planning for me..nobody ever calls me for my opinion from the about you?

-- lesley (, March 04, 2002.

Lesley, I also support women being drafted (we want equal rights, we should be prepared to shoulder equal responsibilities). I knew a lot of women in the military who only went in because of the bennies, and because they knew they would probably not see combat. Very sad. Of course, we all know that there is no such thing as being "too far removed from the action" today.

-- GT (, March 04, 2002.

I couldn't pretend to know how to advise the US on foreign policy, but I HOPE the US will keep supporting and defending Israel. The Bible doesn't suggest that there will ever be "Mideast Peace" until the Lord returns to rule the world. But I hope the US will continue to support Israel anyway, peace or no peace.

-- Rags (, March 04, 2002. somebody unplugged your red phone too?? ;>)

-- diane (, March 04, 2002.

Doreen, I stated my belief re 'God's chosen people', please allow me to select what I want to believe and I will allow you the same.

-- john hill (, March 04, 2002.

Right on, John!

-- joj (jump@off.c), March 04, 2002.

John, you can believe whatever you want to believe. All I said was, you need to take that up with God as HE is the one who said it. In other words, you can't argue with me about it. I didn't say it. HE did, and still does.

As to things we can actually DO something about, I agree with Lesley, exceptregarding the draft, as with the current policies we have of being the Global Police Force or Global Bully, I wouldn't ask anyone to enlist. IF we operated as we should, I would agree with a draft.

-- Doreen (, March 04, 2002.

I'm sorry, I meant to say that I put 'John Hill' because I wasn't sure if any of the other Johns had posted and wanted to be certain as to who was being addressed. I didn't do it to be snotty.

-- Doreen (, March 04, 2002.

I was blessed to grow up as a Christian child in a neighborhood dominated by GODS CHOSEN PEOPLE.Which god that chose them still has me puzzled.The self proclaimed suppior hebrew race has the same tones as Hitler. They taught me the meaning of racisim.From the experiences they've given me,I've been pushed to side with the Arabs if I were to take a side.I grew up treated as inferior because of being Christian,looked upon as subhuman,barbarian,crimminal, because my faith wasn't the same as theirs.If this is the same way they treat the Arabs, no wonder Arabs are thought of as hostile people. Anyone treated subhuman by the controlling race will become hostile.

-- SM Steve (, March 05, 2002.

I think that the mantle of being "The Leader of the Free World" is not something we should throw away or take lightly. After all, we had help in our early struggle for independence.

Should we just go in blindly everywhere? Of course not, but keeping to a total isolationist posture can also get us into trouble by keeping us out of the loop, so to speak.

-- GT (, March 05, 2002.

As to whether we should continue to support Israel because of peoples different interpertations of writings in a book I am all to familar with,(Isaiah,Hosea,Lamentations,etc.), but do our government leaders go along with them same beliefs as for the reason we are supporting Israel? Or is there another reason.

I believe we should support Israel just for the fact that they will be the only takeoff place besides Britian for ours troops to deploy from when we have to go to war with the German lead EU someday.

-- TomK(mich) (, March 05, 2002.

why take it up with god doreen . You seem to speak so eloquently for he, she, or it?

-- jz (, March 05, 2002.

He speaks just fine for himself. Why don't you take a hike?

-- Doreen (, March 05, 2002.

Yes, we are to support Israel, but the question is, WHICH Israel?

Are we to support the modern nation-state of Israel?

Or should we support the people that hold to the morals and ideals of the Israel of old?

Also, this whole notion of "God's Chosen People" really bothers me. If God truly is infinitely fair and just, then why does He play favorites?

Also Doreen, you said to take the matter up with God. Well, I tried, on numerous occasions, but He just doesn't seem too interested in what I have to say.

-- Nexar (, March 07, 2002.

Well, pulling out would certainly answer the question of how the rest of the world would run their own affairs without the 'big stick' of US military might. I don't think, though, that the EU either needs or wants to become a superpower. They're just learning to co-operate with each other after 1700 years of tribal warfare.

However, if the US brings all its forces home from their distant postings, where are they going to put them all? Ashcroft was saying to the troops just last week that it's time they closed a few homeland bases and consolidated more, to save money. In the midst of all those increases in defense spending, I guess it isn't earmarked for the grunts, only for the big-budget defense contractors, for whom peace (anywhere in the world) is synonymous with poor profit margins.

-- JayB (, March 07, 2002.

Say Nexar, I don't understand everything about God, and I don't mean to imply that I do. I have learned to be content with the knowledge that He is God and I am NOT, and to wait on answers to things that bother me. In other words, I guess I have learned to trust God. What was it Abraham asked regarding Sodom? Maybe you can reread that bit and glean a little more from it?

As to this ever expanding insanity of "budgetless budgeting"...I truly feel sorry for all of the grunts in our military. Most believe they are doing the right and proper thing and are serious about their oath to uphold the Constitution, but unfortunatley most people don't even know what is in the Constitution.sigh.

-- Doreen (, March 08, 2002.

Good answer, though I'm still waiting for a reply from Him.

Be very careful to make sure the word truly DOES come from God, and not some self-aggrandizing humans.

After all, it is EXTREMELY easy to write something and then claim that the Hand of God guided their pen.

-- Nexar (, March 09, 2002.

I agree that most people don't have a clue about our constitution our form of government. Scariest, is the fact that our president is a member of that group. Just read "The Bush Dyslexicon". Great reading but difficult. Had to take frequent breaks to mop my eyes and massage my stomach muscles from laughing. If 95 % of the quotes were false, he'd still be an idiot and a liar. And his fingers on the trigger..........

-- jz (, March 09, 2002.

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