Freshly kidded Doe -Not feeling so wellgreenspun.com : LUSENET : Dairygoats : One Thread
My four year old kidded on Thursday and she went off her grain a bit. I had (and am) giving her Probios orally and an ID-1 3cc injection sq once per day. This am her temp was 101.6• she was shaking a bit (it is unusually cold here) and not bringing up her cud like she should.
This is what I have done: 1 put a t shirt on her, gave her hot water with molasses, 12cc of propylene glycol orally (I also have been giving her 6cc propylene glycol twice per day since kidding because of the lack of interest in grain, but this am gave her 12cc), gave her an AD and E, and a B complex shot. She isn't shivering anymore, still has zero interest in grain, eating both alfalfa and grass hay although not very zealously, and she is still not bringing her cud up very well. Last night her cud was fine. Any ideas for me? thanks!
-- Doreen (email@example.com), March 03, 2002
It sounds like you are taking good care of her. If you put your ear on her, you should be able to hear whether she is wheezing. One of my doelings had wheezing with the shivers after a really cold night, and was better with antibiotics.
-- mary (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 03, 2002.
First, don't inject the ID-1 only give it orally. But I would treat her for milk fever, with calcium. Low fever, shaking, little interest in feed, though will eat hay, low to no milk production and lowering temp are all classic signs of milkfever. I think in the Sue Rieth article over at saanendoah.com there is clickable link for milkfever, it really is very similar in the treatment of hypocalcemia though. Maybe also look under the serious goat stuff on that site. I always treat with B1/Thiamin, and if you don't have that a normal sized dairy goat gets 12cc 3 times a day of B complex then 12cc once a day, all the B's in Bcomplex are water soluable, but it does but some strain on the kidneys dosing a complex for just the one B1. So make sure she is drinking lots of hot water, a little kero, molassas or pancake syrup will help her drink more. I have Amber right now on this, with my Thiamin mysteriously gone from the fridge :( I know I let someone borrow it and just can't remember who. But she was up eating this morning, so we are on the mend. Vicki
-- Vicki McGaugh TX (email@example.com), March 03, 2002.
Okay, so there they say the dosage for propylene glycol is 60cc!!!! The instructions I saved from last years talk with someone from Goat911 said 4-6cc. Auuggh. I'll give her more PG and do 12cc of B complex. I don't have B-1/Thiamine here at all. She is eating the alfalfa hay with more relish now, and her cud is better this afternoon.
On the B complex, is it just one day of three 12cc injections?
Also, I was reading that AandD help in the creation and absorption of calcium, should I continue giving her this? How many times per day?
Thanks very much!!!
BTW, Vicki, the buckling (and the others!) is doing fine. I added some regular yeast to the milk and also found vitmin E in a single container where 5 drops equals 100iu. This is less expensive than the capsules and just administered orally with a syringe.
-- Doreen (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 03, 2002.
Hi Doreen, 3 injections the first day then once daily. saanendoah.com has the info on this under injectable vitamins. Maybe the person said 46 CC of PG?? Or were you talking to a mini goat person :) Where did you find the E in the syringable form? Remember it is 300 IU daily so you will need 3 syringe fulls each, is it still cheaper? Certainly sounds cheaper! A friend of mine is using the sublingual, under the tongue kind, he still hasn't told me how many IU's it is. Vicki
-- Vicki McGaugh TX (email@example.com), March 03, 2002.
I found the vitamin E at Brookshire Bros of all places. It's 5 drops to 100 iu so 15 drops which is 1/2 cc covers the 300iu requirement;). I don't know for certain if it is cheaper as I haven't figured out how many units are in this bottle, but it's more likely to actually be consumed by squirting it into their mouths with the syringe than trying to squeeze one of those pills out. The way my one doe fights I doubt I could get any in her mouth that way.
Saanendoah just says 5-6 ml on the B complex. That's all I could find on it there. I'm going to talk with the Co op about B1 tomorrow.
BTW, (thank God!) she doesn't have labored breathing or any rattle at all, and her temp this evening was 102.5. So that's better.
Thanks for all the help folks. I'll let you know how she is doing.
-- (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 03, 2002.
Here is the info, its in the paragraph further down. Thiamin on its own is only by perscription. Vicki
THIAMINE - a "B" vitamin [B1] (Rx item) (most common is 200mg/ml strength) SC (SQ)/IM -
POLIOENCEPHALMALACIA: Polioencephalomalacia, thiamine deficiency, or PEM is a neurological problem seen in ruminants that is due to a lack of thiamine to the brain resulting in brain swelling and pressure necrosis of brain tissue. Caused most often by diet changes that alter gut flora populations so that the new gut bugs produce a thiaminase that deactivates the dietary thiamine. Thiamine is indispensable for the vital functioning of the brain...if thiamine is unavailable or its required level is decreased, the brain cortex degenerates. Moderate to high dietary sulfur intake is thought to be one cause of polioencephalomalacia in ruminants.Some of the symptoms are staggering, blindness, weakness, twitching of facial muscles, depression, trance like state (stargazing). It is often misdiagnosed as listeriosis, even by veterinarians. Administration of thiamine in the below prescribed dose quickly reverses the otherwise fatal progress of the disease. Often dexamethasone is administered along with Thiamine to reduce brain swelling. TREATMENT OF POLIOENCEPHALOMALACIA: 4.5mg per pound (of the 200mg/ml that would be 1ml per 45 pounds), 3X daily (first dose should be given IV), until symptoms of polioencephalomalacia [PEM] disappear. In an emergency you can use B- Complex at about 12ml per adult goat. While the high doses of B- Complex will supply the needed thiamine (B1) it also hits the animal with an excess of the other B vitamins. Since the B's are water soluble and quickly eliminated from the body via the kidneys there is little danger of an overdose, but, they do put an extra strain on the kidneys of an already stressed system. Straight thiamine (B1) is the best choice for treatment of PEM/Thiamine Deficiency/ Poloencephalomalacia. Note: Do not administer dextrose IV's to animals with PEM, their carbohydrate metabolism is impaired.
-- Vicki McGaugh TX (email@example.com), March 04, 2002.
Thanks very much- I guess the polioencephal@#$%^&*(*&^^%$ threw me off.
She is doing great now. I believe the calcium was the ticket. I got the Mylanta liquid and gave her 4 1/2 cc starting last night. I tried with the Tums and she was having none of it. Her temp is normal, milk is up, no shaking, eating better and feisty as can be:). Egggcellent.
-- Doreen (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 04, 2002.