Public Schools

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What are the schools like where you live? What improvements would you make, what would you change or leave the same? I am truly interested as we have an opportunity in a school improvement projest to implement some positive changes here.

The worst thing about our schools, is the discipline issue, children don't get it at home, and don't get much at school either. Another trouble is teacher attitude. Seems like the younger teachers start out all fired up, but after a few years, they lose much of their drive and enthusiasm. I saw this quite clearly this year, when a teacher I loved now has my daughter, and it is a world of difference his attitude. He cusses in fornt of the kids, says mean things, and is generally sarcastic and somewhat mean. It is pretty sad actually.

-- Melissa in SE Ohio (me@home.net), March 05, 2002

Answers

We homeschool -- for the following reasons:

1) children on either end of the spectrum get much less attention than they need -- smart kids are left to their own devices while the teachers concern themselves with the "squeaky wheels" -- and the kids that need more time and effort to understand are left in the dust. I guess this comes down to teacher/student ratio, but the fact is that there is no time for customized education, and the public education system has come to be viewed as a "dump in their daily dose -- if it doesn't fill, or overflows -- too bad". Education is not a standard ration to be dumped into a childs head on a daily basis -- more time must be spent recognizing the talents and needs of each child.

2) Behavior/discipline: Parenting has become a thing of the past -- children are not taught respect, and everything now comes down to "what have you done for me lately"? STUFF is more important in this materialistic world than honor and morality. Until parents are required and ALLOWED to parent, the schools must step in and mete out what is required so that schools are safe for our children.

3) Teaching must be viewed as an essential service. Teachers must be shown the respect by parents to get the respect of their students. They also must learn to EARN it. Respect is something that must be earned. Period. If children feel that they are nothing more than a paycheque to the adult at the front of the room, they sure aren't going to bother listening.

4) Educational standards must be established and met. 25% of the adult population of the US and Canada is functionally illiterate. That doesn't mean that they can't read -- it means they can't understand what they read. Too many kids "slip through the cracks" -- although my personal belief is that they are helped along by many factors -- as I don't believe it is possible for a teacher to not recognize that someone cannot read.

Our reasons for homeschooling were many -- not the least of which our sons' educational needs were not being met. If they had been I might have been willing to go other routes to address the other problems in the school system -- as in the bullying, the verbal abuse by teachers and the total lack of respect that is shown to parents by the system.

I couldn't be happier that we homeschool. Our sons have benefitted hugely and are now taking a proactive rather than reactive role in their education.

I hope that with your involvement you are able to make your school a better place. I admire you for trying.

-- Tracy (trimmer31@hotmail.com), March 05, 2002.


An example today, there is a child who is a foster child in one of my daughters classes. He is new to the class. Well today he absolutely refused to spit out his gum, which turned into a long ordeal with the principal having to come to the room. This takes away from the other children's education. Unfortunately this is not uncommon.

-- Melissa in SE Ohio (me@home.net), March 05, 2002.

My personal opinion is that the child should have been removed from the room after no more than five minutes of refusing to obey the teacher. He should have been taken to the principal, rather than call the principal to him. The principal could then have dealt with him while the class went on with minimal interruption.

In dealing with children (not just my own) I have found that defiance of any kind is best dealt with swiftly. This minimizes the frustration felt by the one in charge and discourages the other children from following suit.

As for what a parent can do about it--I have never had to deal with the public school system, so I can't really offer much advice. Is there a guidance counsellor of some type that can deal with kids from unstable home environments?

As for teachers with bad attitudes--that's a hard one, too. I would probably encourage my child to do his best and meet a bad attitude with a cheerful spirit. I might also bring up one specific incident that especially bothered my child at a parent/teacher conference, and let the teacher know my concern and that I was praying for him/her. Since this is someone you had, you might sweeten the conversation with a few favourite memories of times in his class. I suppose a lot depends on the rapport you now have with the teacher.

Is it too early to find out who your children will have next year? Having an idea of what to expect can help you think ahead, or you may be able to arrange to have your child in a different class, if possible.

Melissa, I think you once mentioned that you had considered home schooling. This might be an option, but not one to be taken lightly. Some home schoolers might disagree with me, but home school is not for every one. I know home schoolers who took their kids out of public school because their pastor told them to. They were not prepared for the work involved, and within four years, virtually every child in that church was behind by as much as three years. They finally started a church school with some good teachers and within two or three years most of the kids had caught up.

Christian school is also a thought, if you don't have to drive an hour to get there. There is a really good Christian school run by the church my parents attend. Tom and I have sometimes said that if we lived in that area we might send some of ours to it. But there are other church schools I wouldn't look twice at. The one I grew up in took all the kids the public schools expelled, looking at it as a "ministry". In fact, the bad corrupted the good until there weren't many good kids left. The same sort of thing happened in a school where Tom taught high school, but there, things were made worse because the principal's darling son was one of the bad ones and none of the teachers were allowed to confront him about anything.

Pray a lot about this (I'm sure you already do). Make sure you and Cale are in this together, that whatever you do, both of you are in agreement about it.

-- Cathy N. (homekeeper86@sympatico.ca), March 05, 2002.


A lot of people also send their kids to parochial (Catholic) schools, even though they aren't Catholic, because they like the educational atmosphere (they don't tolerate a lot of nonsense). I think you can opt out of some of the religion classes (depends on the particular school, I think), but you are expected to stand respectfully for class prayers.

I also think the public schools are very inconsistent when it comes to discipline. You can get suspended for bringing an aspirin or Midol to class (that your parents let you have), but flip off the teacher and it might be only detention (I understand if you feel it necessary to delete part of that sentence), if that.

Not to be flip, but one way to get a school's attention quickly is through a letter to the editor of the local paper, or a lawsuit.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 05, 2002.


The elementary and junior high schools in this large town of about 50,000 (we live 5 miles out of the northern limits) all have to wear uniforms. There is a very strict dress code at the high schools here, but in my opinion that does not prevent what they were trying to prevent, as there is a large gang population here. The dress code does not change the attitudes of the gang members. As a result, I believe they are trying to implement a new policy of clear backpacks in all schools, and clear purses only. The policy makers are voting whether to make the high schools wear uniforms also. My three older kids all went to small public schools until their last two years. If I had to do it over, I would have homeschooled them all through graduation. I intend to homeschool my three year old.

-- Gina NM (inhock@pvtnetworks.net), March 05, 2002.


I don't really see homeschooling as a viable option here. My kids do actually like school most of the time,and have lots of friends they would really miss. I would homeschool if I felt they were really missing out on their education or if I felt they were in any danger. I think I could handle the teaching, but I also feel they are exposed to such a wide variety of experiences and people at school, and for most of their lives they will have to deal with all kinds of people, so it is a good opportunity to learn in a structured environment.

They do have many problems with children from unstable homes, in the elementary building there are over 600 kids, with about 1/3 eligible for Title I help due to poor grades and test scores. Many of the teachers are good, just tired of dealing with it I think. I try to teach my kids to just try to get along with everyone, do what the teacher says etc...

As to next year, Kadia will have at least 8 different teachers, Megan will have about 13 total, Lindsey will have 2, plus 5 special teachers and Brady will also have 2 with 5 special teachers. So it is a huge number of people and a variety of styles to adapt to!!! I doubt there are any easy answers to the troubles.

At least it seems like the education evens out. For example last year Kadia had a great Science teacher, this year not so great. Last year, English was bad, this year it is fine. So maybe before it is all over with, she will learn everything she needs to know!

-- Melissa in SE Ohio (me@home.net), March 05, 2002.


I took my daughter out of public school 2 years ago after her math teacher told the class that it was too bad if they didn't get it, she had a time schedule and had to move on. This was just one incident involving several different teachers that made me decide to home- school.

The one thing I would like to see change is the fact that some teachers want to be the kids friend, and not their teacher. Kids need some degree of authority and they need to be taught to respect teachers or anyone else in authority for that matter. Once a teacher becomes no more that a friend the kids will walk all over them, I've seen it happen more than once.

I KNOW there are some fantastic teachers out there who work hard and really care, it must be one heck of a hard job, but I came to the conclusion that my kids would fare better if taught at home.

-- kathy in NE Ohio (kathy0801@msn.com), March 06, 2002.


Kathy, how things have changed! I always got along really well with my teachers, and truly considered them friends, especially at junior high and high school. And yes I did respect them. If I had been taken out to be homeschooled, I would have missed them, but not the other kids so much. I think it is the other kids that make schools such miserable places to be these days, sad to say.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 06, 2002.

Melissa~

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said the "worst thing is the discipline issue". Discipline is the key to almost all the problems. The reason the teachers are no longer fired up is because they are tired of having to deal with discipline issues and not being allowed to teach. It is a true testament to a lot of our teachers that kids CAN read and write and do math when you realize all the extra stuff that teachers have to put up with. And why is it that the child that is the WORST discipline problem is the one who's parent(s) are the first one's screaming discrimination and lawsuit. We have a wonderful school with 90% excellent teachers. I would say that 80% or better of our kids are well behaved and focused on doing a good job. Unfortunately it is the 20% who make like MISERABLE, both for the teachrs and the kids. How would I work to correct this? Here are some things our schools have implemented: 1. Teachers are required to dress as professionals. This may seem like a small thing, but when I was in college, my teaching professor said it was important to project an image of professionalism if teachers ever wanted to be thought of and treated as professionals. If the parent doesn't consider you a professional, why should the kids. By the way, in Arkansas and a lot of other states, you now have to have a masters degree to even teach!!! 2. We have posted in our school and each classroom acceptable behaviors and unacceptable. Consequences are listed with the offenses. It's just like at home, threatening does no good, but action gets their attention quick. The schools must all agree to act swiftly in response to bad behavior. Separation is a major factor in treating kids, in that most act out in order to get the attention of their peers. We have a whole room dedicated to those who "act out" constantly, where they are isolated and do their work in silence. This is just in that I feel it punishes the whole class to keep the disrupter in the class, and makes it impossible for the teacher to teach. We did have to hire a teacher just for this room, but I'm sure glad we have it. I don't think this person would have to be certified, check with your district. 3. Have you thought of running for school board. Then you are really on the inside and will know more of what is really going on.

I understand your frustration. My kids love school, so I can't justify homeschooling to my husband. He doesn't see any need for it. All three of my boys make A's and B's and are happy. But, being up at the school all the time and having even taught at one, I see all the time that is wasted in their day, and all the junk they are exposed to that I would rather they not be. I will lift you up in prayer that God will show you the wise thing to do.

-- Ivy in NW AR (balch84@cox-internet.com), March 06, 2002.


Ah, for the days of the one-room country school! The way our Christian school was set up, I did not have to change classes until I went to college. Where Tom taught, there were not more than 5 or 6 teachers for 7th-12th grades. The kids changed classes, but would have the same teacher for several classes. Tom taught math and science for all six grade levels, plus PE for 7th and 8th grade boys. I cannot imagine having as many different teachers as your kids do!

-- Cathy N. (homekeeper86@sympatico.ca), March 06, 2002.


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