A quiz and a warning

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Freedom! self reliance : One Thread

Quiz: how many of you know how the protagonist in George Orwell's infamous book, 1984, happened to get caught by "big brother"?

Warning: a similar fate could happen here. Be very careful.

-- joj (jump@off.c), March 05, 2002


Was it that he gave it away that he knew the truth??

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), March 05, 2002.

Hello joj,




-- http://communities.msn.com/livingoffthelandintheozarks (espresso42@hotmail.com), March 05, 2002.

oops....a misspell, I meant to say Winston!



-- http://communities.msn.com/livingoffthelandintheozarks (espresso42@hotmail.com), March 05, 2002.

Yup. Sure do. His friend and mentor, of course! Thought about that already quite extensively and decided I didn't care. But thanks! If there is any hope, it lies with the proles.

-- Winston Smith~RIP~ (bisquit@here.com), March 05, 2002.

Yep, his friend and mentor, who gave him a "subversive book" among other things.

Is it not possible that there are "friends" here who are only here to spy, and encourage folks to speak their mind, so they can charge (or not charge, thanks to the PATRIOT ACT) them with terrorism?

-- joj (jump@off.c), March 06, 2002.

Oops. The subversive book was written by the big bro types, specifically to entrap people with brains, such as Winston Smith.

If my memory serves, which is somewhat questionable, after almost forty years..

-- joj (jump@off.c), March 06, 2002.

joj, now I must admit that I am a bit paranoid......but.....could you please elaborate here. Just what could any of us say that would be construed that we are terrorists???

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), March 06, 2002.

Diane, you don't have to be a terrorist, you just have to be acting against the interests of your country. If you buy imported wine instead of a califorian rough red you are guilty.

-- john hill (john@cnd.co.nz), March 06, 2002.

Sooooo, I guess I had better start watching out for the men in black?? Maybe they will take me to Guantanamo with the other terrorists?? I always did want to see Cuba. :>)

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), March 06, 2002.

Hey Joe, don't look now, but you sound like you have been getting a tic paranoid (this is just poking fun at you---;). Seriously though, it IS possible. However, there is very little time to speak freely to try to wake folks up, so---SPEAAKING freely is what must be done. Yes we have thought crimes, yes we have double speak, but they haven't gotten all of us brainwashed as of yet. And "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet ....etc.". If we don't speak now, we may very well have to forever hold our peace. Just my opinion. And I sure ain't no federale as I just can't take orders very well.

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), March 07, 2002.

Doreen, certainly it's possible that I'm being paranoid. I've certainly been accused of it!

It is certainly true that I've had a high degree of suspicion of big government ever since I was a teenager, and read 1984, Brave New World, and a few other seemingly prophetic books.

I keep seeing more and more things resembling the 1984 scenario, as I know you do too.

As I suspected when I was a teen, and I have predicted for many years, the way we lose our rights is a chip at a time. Talk to any "oldtimer" I suspect they are blown away at lots of things our children take for granted. I'll give you just one example:'

My bro in law is building a house in Pismo Beach, Calif. It's cost him already over 35 grand just to get the permits, inspections by archeologists, engineers, geologists, soil scientists, fire inspectors, etc. before even breaking ground. Try this on for size: he's required to hire a landscape architect to design and map out every pipe, every valve, every tee, elbow, reducer, sprinkler head, etc. To scale. The landscape architect has to show the common name and scientific name for each and every shrub, tree, and flower, along with where it will be place, how much water it is expected to require on his site, and likely other things I haven't heard about.

When all the work's done, the county mountie will inspect to make sure he didn't sneak in a rhodie where the plans called for a camelia.

If a person hadn't grown up in southern california, and went there from, say, Oklahoma, I think he'd be totally incredulous! But for the folks in San Luis, it's just the way things are. Imagine your grandfather being asked to even get a building permit, much less all this other bs!

By the way, my bro in law's house is projected at costing him $900,000. My very similar house, here in Orygun, cost me "only" about $100,000. (We are each the main contractor, though he's subbing out more than I did.)

You said, "If we don't speak now, we may very well have to forever hold our peace." I agree. However, I think to speak too freely here is like standing in front of the CIA"s main office in Washington, and yelling "Kill the King". There is no privacy here, and I feel sure that this site is monitored. Heck, I'll bet you could find this site by searching google for a few key words, like "conspiracy", "big brother", "bomb", etc.

Diane, in answer to your question about what one could say her which could lead to the conclusion that he were a terrorist. I had just read some posts which raised my alarm button. I don't remember what they were now, though, as a lot of water has flowed under my bridge since I created this post.

Upon doing a quick scan of recent posts, though, I did find one example: Read the post "Freedom or Safety " on this site. Lots of "subversive" talk there!

Sorry if I got anyone paranoid, but I think it's a valid concern. If I'M not being paranoid, that is!

-- joj (jump@off.c), March 07, 2002.

Diane, in reference to your "always wanting to see Cuba": I'm going there next winter. Gotta go somewhere to get away from the rain, and I'll be visiting my grandbabies in Floriduh. It's only a hop, skip and jump from there to Habana. I'm looking forward to it! (I think I'll give wide berth to Guantanamo, though)

-- joj (jump@off.c), March 07, 2002.

yeh joj, I reread that one and see what you mean. From some of the other stuff I have been reading, we should all be a bit more careful I guess. Lucky you seeing Cuba. I think I have wanted to go there ever since I read some of Hemingway. Sounds like a beautiful place, or at least it was. I don't imagine it is all that much different than Haiti, which if you can look past the horrendous poverty, is a very beautiful place. I have grandbabies in Florida also and hope to get down there soon.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), March 07, 2002.

Hi Diane, I really don't know what to expect, except my spanish teacher from years ago went there last year, and highly recommends it. Everyone's impressions are different about any country, in my experience, and there's been so much hype about Cuba ever since the early sixties...

A good friend of mine went into the Peace Corps last summer, in Nicaragua, and she tells me that Nicaragua has the dubious distinction of undertaking Haiti as the Western Hemisphere's poorest nation.

I am hopeful that my understanding of Cuba will prove that there is less suffering there than in, for instance, Guatemala, because of its supposedly superior social safety nets. I'll write and let y'all know when I get back.

Floriduh. Hmm. I love my kid, his wife, and my grandkids, but I don't care for Floriduh all that much. I think it's mostly just the heat and humidity I'm not used to; the people there seem pretty genuine and friendly.

-- joj (jump@off.c), March 07, 2002.

Kinda funny that the thread is titled "Freedom or Safety", isn't it? Ahh well. We sure do live in interesting times. It is probably wise to watch what you say, but wiser to watch what others say...particularly when they are your "leaders" or when someone wants you to blow something up.

Enjoy Cuba! I know a few people who have been there in the past couple of years and they said it was really interesting, beautiful, fun and kind of sad. The poverty is striking according to three of them. Can you fly there directly now? It used to be that you couldn't go to Cuba unless you went via another country.

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), March 08, 2002.

I am not a lover of Florida at all. Hot, humid and wall to wall people. My son would like to move back to Michigan but the wife won't leave her mother. I didn't know that about Nicaragua. I am always amazed at home many people here don't even have a clue as to what poverty really means. Sure glad the forums are back!!!

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), March 08, 2002.


How is it that you are able to visit Cuba? It is my understanding that travel there is still prohibited without a permit, which is difficult to aquire.

-- Elizabeth (ekfla@aol.com), March 09, 2002.

For those who asked, I am in the planning stages, so can't answer you questions; I don't yet know if there are direct flights from the states. I doubt it. We're planning to go via Cancun, unless we meet a friend in Costa Rica first, in which case we'll be flying out of San Jose.

Just bought a copy of Lonely Planet's Guide to Cuba, and am looking forward to perusing it over the next few months.

Diane, believe me when I say I would never go to Floriduh if my grandbabies weren't there. Hot. Muggy. Wall to wall people :)

The people mostly seem very nice, though...

-- joj (jump@off.c), March 11, 2002.

Oh, Elizabeth, I don't think travelling there is prohibited, though I could be wrong. It's certainly legal for educational purposes, for instance.

If you're interested, here's a site which arranges trips: http://www.globalexchange.org/tours/auto/2002-12-28_NewYear sinHavana.html We normally shun tourgroups, though, and will likely travel about on our own. Plus or minus our friend.

-- joj (jump@off.c), March 11, 2002.

Hi,I went to Cuba on my sail boat in the early 90's- You where not allowed spend any money there(US law) but the Cubans didn't mind at all. Had a good time and very cheap prices,of course it could have gone bad. I did have a small problem with the Coast guard when we came back-one of the dogs didn't have a rabies tag. Sometimes I wish I had kept the sail boat-then I look around at our little farm and say "Naw,this is far better". Daryll

-- Daryll in NW FLA (twincrk@hotmail.com), March 12, 2002.

Thanks for the info, Daryll; no wonder my new book on Cuba says I'll likely spend more on my plane ticket than on anything else, since it's illegal to spend money there!

If I mention this to the Cuban merchants, do you think they'll be understanding? :~]

I did find out from the book that you can get charter flights from Miami to Habana, if you're "allowed" to go by big brother.

Otherwise, there are frequent flights from Cancun, Nassau, San Jose, Guate City, etc. Mostly quite cheap, it seems, which is a definite advantage!

I'm getting excited about this, now that I've got my "Lonely Planet".

-- joj (jump@off.c), March 12, 2002.

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