We live in a hollow on the side of a hill, and there are lots of springs all over the place. Makes for muddy footing this time of year, and we haven't even begun the spring rains yet. We don't have any pasture, and the pony and goats browse in the woods, in a large fenced area (they have 4 separate areas, so we can rotate their browse). Anyhow, the mud is giving me a big headache. The goats hate walking through it, the pony is now up to her fetlocks in caked mud (which I brush off twice a day). Is there anything that can be done? There is one large, mucky area where I'd like to put about 6" of 1"+ gravel and pack it down as best I can, but I worry also that the weight of the pony trotting and walking across will just mash it into the soil. It does dry out eventually, about mid summer, then stays dry for several months. I'd also toyed with the idea of placing lots of flagstone (the hillside is littered with it) in the really mucky areas, but again, will they just get pressed into the muck (into which I sink above my ankles, and I don't weigh anywhere near what the pony does!) by the pony?

Sorry to ramble on so, but I'm gettin' tired of slogging through the muck-ola.

Thanks for any and all advice.

Andrea

-- Andrea Gauland (andreagee@aol.com), March 14, 2002

Answers

There is a product called cedar rest, which the feed stores carry which you spread on the soil and it helps keep the soil dryer and mud down.It is 4 $a bale here and you just spread it over the ground.It works here as long as I respread when it gets thin and add more.

-- kathy h (ckhart55@earthlink.net), March 14, 2002.

Instead of trying to cover the mud your best bet would be drainage. I don't know how your land lays but it sounds like you have rocky clay soil. Contact your local soil conservation office and have them make suggestions. In some area there are even grants to install drainage to stop soil erosion from livestock walking in mud.

-- Emil in TN (eprisco@usit.net), March 14, 2002.

Oh gosh, i can really relate to the mud, well, make that red muck in VA. I had no idea what all those red mts were when we moved to VA and got to near Winchester. Then after moving a yr later to south central VA I soon found out. man, red muck everywhere. It was so bad it even stained clothes permantely. I also realized why the early colonists made brick houses!

We had a awful slippery driveway, we had gravel hauled in, but after a rain it would wash, so a neighbor mentioned cursh and run, that worked great, got it from the gravel company. Hope this helps. Oh, watch for foot rot from the wet.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), March 14, 2002.

Old, giant, tractor tires. Cut off both sides and across top so it will lay flat. They make great walk-ways and I can't imagine them ever wearing out. We used one to make a cattle feeder. Open it up as described and bolt a couple of 2x4's to the ends to hold it flat. Good luck.

-- Mona in OK (modoc@ipa.net), March 14, 2002.

Dig ditches to divert the water. Use the dirt taken out of the ditches to build up the surrounding ground.

Or, as a last resort, use Ice Nine.

-- joj (jump@off.c), March 15, 2002.

Here in Minnesota it is ilegal to fill or drain land without getting a permit first. And natual wetlands will not get a permit...

Just a word of caution - check on that. Probably not an issue where you live, but national rules will be going into effect on this in the near future.

Drainage in rocky soil is a dificult thing. Here in Minnesota, rock fill in cattle yards does _NOT_ work. Your milage may vary tho. Could you set up a small, fairly dry yard area, and pour a concrete pad for them to be out of the mud? Gives them some options, can be on the dirt or dry off a bit on the concrete. That works for livestock here.

--->Paul

-- paul (ramblerplm@hotmail.com), March 15, 2002.

We get about 13 feet of rain a year and I know all about mud.

You need to scrape the mud and grade for drainage before putting in gravel, otherwise it DOES just squish and disappear into the mud. That goes for flagstones, too, or anything else you put in for footing.

Goats seem to do okay with boardwalks. Planks with blocks under them are keeping them out of the mud. The horses would rather stand on a section of old road sheltered by trees that go through the mudhole to the barn. Hopefully, this is the year we scrape the mud and lay the gravel.

-- Laura (LadybugWrangler@somewhere.com), March 15, 2002.

temp fix,, spread alot of OLD hay all over, more permanent fix,, when its dry,, grade the ground out,, then add your gravel,, 6 inches of limstone or crushed concrete shouldnt get puched into the soil,, unles you drive something real heavy over it., After it gets packed,, it should be very close to concrete. What kind of soil do you have? are the springs causing the problem on your place? How about planting bamboo? some types goats will eat to keep it from spreading,, and that stuff soaks in water real well,, so will willow trees.

-- Stan (sopal@net-pert.com), March 15, 2002.

Have the same problem here ... came from a dry climate and did not realize what the potential problems could be. I joke with people that I didn't know you could have side-hill swamps until I moved here. Have found NO real solutions except to buy some acreage on TOP of the hill! LOL

Some of the things that have helped. We've dug out some of the springs and diverted it into tanks and "confined" runoff so it doesn't just spread out and seep into large areas that stay wet/marshy year round.

We have tried grading, ditching, running drain lines and there might be some improvement but I can't see a lot of improvement right at the bottom of the hill (where we put in the original corrals, naturally!) where there's the most traffic AND the most water ... and of course we need it driest.

Getting trees and brush cut so wind and sun hits the ground has helped a lot getting the ground dried out more quickly. With a lot of foliage, the ground was staying damp/wet all the time. Now it will dry up once the rain quits. We've been cutting and clearing a little at a time, although we leave some of the treetops and lighter stuff on the ground in kind of a zigzag pattern to help prevent erosion until the grass we plant gets a decent start.

Gravel will eventually sink in but we've gotten resigned to the fact that in high traffic areas, like through gates, you just simply have keep adding gravel ... in large amounts. I keep hoping that eventually it will find bottom somewhere!

-- SFM in KY (sportpony@yahoo.com), March 15, 2002.

Does anyone else ever wonder what future archeologists will think when they come across our efforts? "Hmmmm, I wonder what this 25' tall wall of gravel was for...." We did our part not too long ago, it rained right after we dug the 18" X 4' holes for our pole barn footings. They were filled with toads/frog/mice etc. Couldnt get them out, holes were too narrow and deep, so much to my dismay, they were preserved in concrete for future archeologists. :-( Have a great spring day! It's wonderful outside here in Michigan. Amy

-- Amy (kimico@aol.com), March 15, 2002.

We always used to have wet gardens in the spring until my father put in french drains. Now instead of mud soup, we have perfect soil as soon as the earth thaws. Since you are on a slope, it should be easy to redirect the water. It does take a lot of digging though. If you are in a rocky area, just use the rocks you dig out to create the french drain. They can last a long time, so you only have to do it once. Who knows, you may be able to make a pasture out of a mud hole.

Also note that gravel does not work. We live on a dirt road, and one year it was really bad. The town came in with dumptrucks full of fist sized gravel and dumped it all along the road. Within a month, there was not a trace. It had been swallowed by the mud.

-- Chenoa (ganter@primus.ca), March 15, 2002.

I completely understand Andrea !!! The Mud Season, I always say we have 5 seasons not 4 around here, hasn't hit us too badly....yet. Several others spoke of drainage...ask cooperative extension to send someone out to look at your place and perhaps it is draining from somewhere and they could give you advice. We also have horses that just love to roll in the mud as we don't have pasture for them. The goats just tip toe around but they will survive. I have acutally been stuck in the mud with the horses and lost a boot or two !! It is a mess...but guess this is one of the joys of country life also !! The stones and rocks will sink and it's just work for you to haul them down anyways. Only advice I guess I can say is... This too shall pass !! ( until next year !!)

-- Helena (windyacs@npacc.net), March 15, 2002.

We have bright red clay, so I know what you are talking about! IT's such a mess now that we 'slide' around everywhere we walk, track it in the cars/trucks, in the house, storage buildings--just everywhere. BUT come the middle of summer it sure is nice to have a beautiful.green garden and grass-with little or no watering! Good luck --I don't know of any way to change it. We have been adding compost/hay and cover crops thinking that would solve the problems but it doesn't!

-- Debbie T in N.C. (rdtyner@mindspring.com), March 15, 2002.

It's mud season everywhere, even here in Wyoming! Drainage is the key. Pallets available for free from local lumber yards will keep most of it outside. We use pallets instead of expensive rock fill.

-- al (yr2012@hotmail.com), March 15, 2002.

The solution to mud is to move to the concrete jungle and have a paved yard....

-- Oscar H. Will III (owill@mail.whittier.edu), March 16, 2002.

Stan, Good advice, Interesting about bamboo and goats. I would love to have bamboo, but was worried about it spreading into the rest of the forest. Hummmm. I'll be thinking about this more. Thanks,

-- Susan in Northern Mitten Michigan (cobwoman@yahoo.com), March 17, 2002.

I agree with Paul, check out the laws first. Also, some places have laws that state essentially you can't fix your drainage to the point where it drains on someone else's property and damages it.

Or, just debate what part of your property will be the seasonal pond, and gently direct the water there. Another option is to plant trees or bushes that like their feet wet, so to speak, and as they grow more thickly they will keep the animals out of it.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 17, 2002.

As my brother the farmer says: "I never complain about rain. You can make money out of mud, but you can't make money out of dust". Of course, we're a dry country, but if you can figure out how to divert drainage (including the subsurface drainage that gives rise to springs) into a pond or earth dam, then in my (dry country) experience you'd have it made. It's hard for me to imagine having enough water to do everything you want - too much water is "what language are we speaking here?"

And as has been said a lot lately, speak to your local extension officers, and after that to your local soil and water conservation officers. They are paid by you (taxes) to give you advice, they know what they're doing, and they can give you good ideas that they know work where you are. That's a LOT closer than I am.

-- Don Armstrong (from Australia) (darmst@yahoo.com.au), March 18, 2002.

I live in Minnesota, cold & snowy over winter, followed by heavy spring rains. We have yellow clay subsoils, black topsoil that all seals & holds water. The bottom line - WAY too much water & mud in spring. My fields are often 1/3 covered with open water in spring thaw. Miles & miles of tile for drainage to get the blasted water away so I can get in the fields. I _much_ prefer dry years to wet ones. You work forever to accomplish nothing when it is too wet. In a dry year, yields might be low also, but the 'experts' sitting in Chicago deciding crop prices always raise prices when it's dry, and lower prices when it's too wet. Locally, we get a better crop when it's too dry rather than too wet.

All depends on the local conditions. Forty to fifty miles away, sandy, shallow soils, they prefer it wet.

--->Paul

-- paul (ramblerplm@hotmail.com), March 18, 2002.