I truly wish to NOT bring up any anger in saying this about sabbath. But, as I have grown in my knowledge of the scriptures, I find that ,we are, as is stated many times in the scriptures "children of God". This is the way I believe that we should look at the scriptures. Our God is our father and we are his children, therefore as we have grown as a people,like a child of our own does, we also have grown in the site of God. What I am trying to say here is, we are no longer those young children before God, we as a people have much more knowledge in our lives and with this knowledge it also shows us aging as a people. How many of us can look back in time and wonder why did we not (for instance) come up with electricity, before we did? I feel the reason is, we have "grown", we are no longer those toddlers before our God, we have matured.

God has taught us that the sabbath is a day of rest(when we were young)and we should not labor on that day. But, what are we missing as a matured people? The sabbath is "eternal life". Don't you see this? We do what God tells us to do(just like parents do to their own children) and we get our reward (sabbath) i.e. eternal life.

We are children before God, therfore we have to respect the awesome maturity that our Lord has over us(thus, why we fear and obey him) How are we to know the true meaning of sabbath? By what he has showed us throughout our time of growing up as a people.

God gave us a commandment to honor our parents....ask yourselves. Why? Does this seem to be suited to the young child more than the adult? Or is it God's way of teaching us that, we in obeying this commandment also give honor to him? Is he not our father? Is he teaching us from a young age till we grow older a law that he has given us?

As we grew as children before God he gave us our beloved Yeshua the messiah. Have we missed the point? Do we truly know why God did this? Some can say because the hardness of the jews hearts or others say to fullfill prophecy. So we look to the scriptures to find truth, but then we have all this nonsense of one denomination or another saying they are the true church, they gave us the bible etc. Wow!, sure makes it hard to find the truth in all this chaos doesn't it? So, we are at the point of seeking the truth and we are all left in certain denominations that fit whatever each "child" wants to go with. Or, are we? Did we miss another point that God gave us? Hmmmm, lets see, he gave us our Messiah, right? So, without going scripture by scripture, verse by verse... what was God's reason for giving us Yeshua? Have we missed the point ,again? We are children, right?

If Yeshua taught us one thing more than anything else ,it was? What? L-O-V-E We have done right and been blessed, we have done wrong and been punished....are we learning anything here as children of God? Do we take the commandments and make them a stumbling block before ourselves, as our younger selves did(jews during the time of Yeshua)?

Yeshua died for us. What greater love could God have given to us? God loves his children that much, isn't that awesome? Yet we sit here arguing over the sabbath day(eternal life) The point I am geting at here is, have we reached the sabbath day yet i.e. eternal life?.....NO! We are now grown as children before our Lord. We have the laws written on our hearts, we know the truth, as all denominations also,...let us not be boastful before our God.....not one of us can stand before him without sin.

For love is what God has given us from the start, therefore that is why it is the greatest commandment that Yeshua spoke of. If we love one another we also love our Father for he loved us so much that he gave his son to die for us, to show us what unconditional love truly is.Our sabbath(eternal life) has truly not come yet, so how can we argue over it? And as yeshua said, ones persons sabbath may be different than another persons.....how can that be?? Where will you reside on that great day of judgement? Is your sabbath in heaven or hell? Let us not fall or stumble before God's laws, for , if we love him and ourselves as he meant it to be we shall be rewarded. Our sabbath awaits! our savior Yeshua is about to return, lets show our maturity as the children of God. May we therefore be seen as a righteous people, may we get his blessing, and live with our Lord.

p.s. BTW did any seed of Abraham get the blessing when they were a child? *wink* points to ponder, eh?

May the light shine upon us in the dark days to come....love you all, shalom!

-- could be anyone? (itdoesnt@matter.com), March 16, 2002

Answers

Hi JC,

Thanks for trying to convert us all. What denomination are you anyway? Are you 7th Day Adventist?

I realize that English isn't your first language, and I don't want to criticize that, but I think it would be helpful for you to work on the organization of your thoughts to help more effectively convey your point of view to the rest of us.

...but then we have all this nonsense of one denomination or another saying they are the true church, they gave us the bible etc. Wow!, sure makes it hard to find the truth in all this chaos doesn't it?

True that there's a lot of denominations, but not picking a denomination as true make you into a "non-denominational" Christian. And if you convince enough people that you've got the right idea, guess what you've succeeded in doing--you have created a ~new~ denomination and successfully fractured Christianity one more time, making the devil a little happier. Remember Sun Tzu--"Divide and conquer."

You keep on refering to Jesus by the less know "Yeshua." If you feel that this brings you a little closer to him, you might also like to know that there is the Maronite Rite (Branch) in the Catholic Church whose liturgical language is Aramaic (like Roman Catholics' use of Latin). Aramaic, you may remember, is the language that Christ and his contemporaries spoke. Hearing the language that Jesus spoke is a special way of connecting a believer to Jesus.

Enough of my ranting, so are you helping us think about the "Saturday/Sunday sabboth" question, or the "Sabboth==Eternal life" question.

AMDG,

Mateo

-- (Hi_JC@You've.gotta.Be.JC), March 17, 2002.

The apostles taught to convert souls into believing in the Messiah and the laws of God, NOT denominations! If you be a child of God then thats what you be. If not, then not.

-- could be??? (itydoesnt@matter.com), March 17, 2002.

Mateo:

I suppose this anonymous fellow says Yeshuah simply because Jesus (Jesucristus) is the Latin name for Our Lord. If he accepts that, he is bowing to ''Rome''. It makes you wonder what satisfaction these birds get out of blowing smoke at Catholics? Nothing is accomplished. We're STILL sure to remain faithful to the Church of the Apostles; because Our Lord wants us so. The Law of Moses is all fulfilled in Jesus Christ; and our love for Him is our love for the commandments of His Father. The apparent fixation of the poster here is a ''sabath'' (sic) and little else. Well, we haven't intruded on his sabbath. He's welcome to it and we'll give to God our Sunday Sabbath. The FIRST day of the week; on which the holy Resurrection of Our Lord took place.
New Covenant, New Sabbath; what could be more glorious? Allelujah!

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), March 18, 2002.

The apostles taught to convert souls into believing in the Messiah and the laws of God, NOT denominations! If you be a child of God then thats what you be. If not, then not.

JC, You mentioned denominations. It would be helpful to note that Catholic Christians view themselve as members of a catholic (meaning Universal) Church, and ~not~ just a denomination. Though Christian truth exists in non-Catholic churches at varying levels, Catholicism is a universal Church. It does ~contain~ a variety of Rites (Churches) that believe in the same Truth, though the Churches' geographical contexts may vary.

Now that you mentioned it, I'd like to ask a question. I and all Catholics believe in the Messiah and the laws of God. Is this your admission that Catholics--by your definition--are all Christian?

JC, I'm starting to like you. I'll remember you in my prayers tonight.

Mateo

-- (MateoElFeo@netscape.net), March 18, 2002.

Glory in your sabbath eugene! As I will in mine own! If you cannot see that sabbath is eternal life then you have no eye's. Go ahead and change your eternity with your god and son of zeus.

-- couldbeanyone? (itdoesnt@matter.com), March 18, 2002.

What you ''see'' is what you get, Little Man.

My Lord and Saviour is Jesus Christ. Not a Son of any other but God. I see Him and I follow Him. Whatever it is YOU see, it isn't eternal life. Nor salvation; because you are persisting in your sin. We'll all pray for you.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), March 18, 2002.

Jmj

Hi, Gene.
Excuse me for going off on a little tangent.

I noticed that you wrote: "I suppose this anonymous fellow says Yeshuah simply because Jesus (Jesucristus) is the Latin name for Our Lord."

I think that he is using "Yeshuah" because he is yet another of the little band from the "Messianic Jews" denomination that has been visiting us in the last six months. The denomination may be intentionally avoiding the Latin, as you suggested.

However, you have made a small mistake. The name "Jesus" is not a contracted form for "Jesucristus." I can understand why you might have thought that it was. When the name and title, "Jesus Christ," are rendered in Spanish, they are combined as "Jesucristo."
In reality, though, the Aramaic/Hebrew "Yeshua" went into Greek as (in our alphabet) "Iesous" [ending in sigma] and then into Latin as "Iesus" (later Jesus).
Separately, the Hebrew "Mashiyach" [anointed one] went into Greek as (in our alphabet) "Christos" and then into Latin as "Christus."
Neither the Greek nor the Latin combined the words as speakers of Spanish later did.

God bless you.
John

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), March 21, 2002.

My reply to this person was purely off the shoulder, John. Yeshuah is the Messianic Jew's preference, and I knew that. By juxtaposing this name with Jesus, I stressed the apparent unwillingness of these Jews to accept the Latin; which of course is the Catholic. As for the minor error, ''Jesucristus.''-- OK. It shouldn't surprise you. I'm Spanish. It still ought to convey the Catholic name of Our Lord.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), March 21, 2002.

One thing I don't understand is that, people have forgetten what God said 'remember'. I don't think is the right thing to ignore God's scripture for our emotion fillings. Believe! what are written in the Bible are God's own words, therefore belive and obey whatever God says. Don't think God forget inspire His Appostles and Prophets to mention Sunday as new Sabath it.

God bless you all

-- Fundi M. Makama (makamafm@Email.com), December 17, 2002.