I have isolated property surrounded by about 1,000 acres of woods. Last fall I had frequent visits from a hungry bear that turned over my bee hives, got into my chicken and wild bird food and did a lot of damage. I also had visits from folks on ATV's and in trucks who stole my generator, 300-gallon water tank, chickens and rabbits.

I do not want to defend myself with a gun, and cannot if I am not on the premises because I am working or whatever. I have no electricity, so the usual alarms for city folks won't work. Is there a savvy electronic genius on this forum who has designed or installed effective deterrents against theft by man or bear? LEGAL deterrents, not illegal booby-traps! I don't want to get in more trouble, just want to protect what's mine! Thanks.

-- Elizabeth Petofi (arvon@cs.com), March 17, 2002

Answers

a few BIG dogs

-- Stan (sopal@net-port.com), March 17, 2002.

Well Stan, I have to say this is the first time I can remember agreeing with you. That is what it took here (well one big dog). Daryll

-- Daryll in NW FLA (twincrk@hotmail.com), March 17, 2002.

If your that isolated I would go with the big dogs also. Maybe Rotweillers! What few I've been around have been very gentle to the owner but very teritorial. Not good if you have children though.

-- r.h. in okla. (rhays@sstelco.com), March 17, 2002.

TO deal with atv and trucks find the entrance points to your land post as no trespassing then go and spike the area beyond that to destroy the tires. allow enough room for people to turn around. Put locks on cages to avoid theft chain expensive things down. As for the bear speak to wildlife agency about capturing and relocating, if that isn't an alternative go to a local gun shop, hunting guide, etc and ask them if they know a local resposible bear hunter of course this works only if there is a legal bear season

-- take a guess (rathernotsay@yahoo.com), March 17, 2002.

sometimes signs have an effect. instead of the usual no trespassing i perfer "private rifle range impact extreme risk, do not trespass"

-- paul (vonmantik@yahoo.com), March 17, 2002.

Dogs are good but might get shot. Signs saying "Smile your on camera" and "Caution Hidden Bear Traps" might help keep people on/in thier vehicle. Battery powered electric fencer might keep off bears??? They don't read so well!!

-- Ross (amulet@istar.ca), March 17, 2002.

i forgot the other part (bears can't read) so when it comes to bears you are on your own.

-- paul mccloud (vonmantik@yahoo.com), March 17, 2002.

I say a pair or Anatolian or Great Pyrenees. Optional, Solar powered electric fence.

-- Katie S. (cashcrop90@yahoo.com), March 17, 2002.

Lots of fishing line, with teble hooks strategically placed.

-- Elizabeth Quintana (rockshelter@webtv.com), March 17, 2002.

Presonally I'd git 12 gauge. Barbed wire strung about throat high on an ATV that and biohazard signs. A chained or cabled drive that blocks access to the drive. You can't haul too,big of stuff on an atv. A good computer cam (wireless) would help catch the two legged theives. A bear rug might be nice, and I've heard bear steaks are pretty good. But, for the people and bears big dogs, two maybe, there are breeds that where breed for hunting, and yet be good with kids. A Rhodesian Ridgeback might be good. This breed was developed to meet the wide-ranging needs of a hunting dog in the African veldt. The Rhodesian Ridgebacks of lore were capable of performing such diverse tasks as flushing a few partridge, pulling down a wounded stag, or guarding the farm from marauding animals and prowlers at night. It was also able to withstand the rigours of the African bush. Jack

-- jack c (injack1@aol.com), March 17, 2002.

paul, I prefer "if you can read this, you are in my sights- leave now"

; )

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), March 17, 2002.

save the fishing hooks and throat high barbed wire for the endtimes. Even on your land that's a good invitation for a lawsuit.

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), March 17, 2002.

Would it be possible to get someone in the area to help patrol your land while your away? Possibly in exchange for hunting privledges. No armed guard or anything, just a presence, preferably with a dog.

-- JJ Grandits (JJGBDF@aol.com), March 18, 2002.

another suggestion. Leave a radio on. I always do that when I'm gone, just loud enough it can be heard outside of the building. Obvious deterrent methods usually don't fool people in the woods, you have to spook them away.

You can also run alarms off a 12v car battery for quite a long time without recharging it. Most home alarms and all car alarms run off 12volts.

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), March 18, 2002.

It's a good decision not to want to defend yourself with a gun.If you do shoot someone chances are you'll end up serving a prison sentence or a lawsuit or both.Even if they're in your house when you shoot them.I know one guy down the road that lost his land, he had to sell it to pay for the lawyers after shooting someone at his house that raped his daughter .And he had to serve 4 years for the shooting ( Screwed up law system ) .Only do that if your life is threatened ? Stolen goods is big buisness in rural America.Chances are the ATV's are stolen also.Unless you have big bucks to spend on fences, gates, cameras, feeding dogs you don't want, you might consider moving to a place that has neighbors that can see your place from theirs, and watch out for each other . What might be an option is to have someone who is partly disabled (doesn't have a job)who is trust worthy, and set up a trailer and let them live there free in exchange for just being there.A lot of city and suburb people will leave the city or suburbs to get away from crime or urban sprawl and move to the rurals only to find , they were never a victim of crime until they moved to the country.You have a better chance of getting possesions stolen from your property in the country then you would if you lived in New York City. Old timers who say " back when I was young, you could leaves the doors and windows open and be in town half the day and nothing got stolen" Well that was because eveyone new each other and it would be hard to steal without everyone knowing who did it, or there wasn't anything valueable enough to steal that could be resold easy.When someone has used tools for sale ,chainsaws, generators or such, I'll never buy them. Stolen goods are so common I'm afraid I'd be taking a chance on buying someone's stolen property.I always buy what I need new.If I don't have the money for it I don't get it .It is the people who buy stolen property that contribute to the problems of theft.They are just as much a theif as the ones who stole it.Most people in my area won't think twice about buying used tools that are being sold at an unusualy low price, even though they suspect it's stolen.They just see it as a good deal.But the same people will blow steam if their stuff gets stolen.

-- SM Steve (unreal@msn.com), March 18, 2002.

Here in Oklahoma, we have the "Make My Day Law" that slows down some would-be crooks. Just about every country home has a fire arm and this gives them the right to use it on an intruder. As far as outside of the house, I use dogs. Most of the thieves around here seem to hit during the day, when they think people are out in the fields or off to another job. I like the radio idea, might make them think someone is home. Best wishes!

-- cowgirlone in OK (cowgirlone47@hotmail.com), March 18, 2002.

by all means defend yourself with a gun, just be smart about it. Don't actually shoot someone unless your or someone elses life is in danger. If you have to shoot someone in your house, make sure they had a screwdriver or knife in their hand before you call the law.

Guns are a great deterrent when you're home but pretty worthless to you when you're not there.

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), March 18, 2002.

Someone several months ago asked the same question; how to prevent theft / vandalism from property they were not around to protect.

Someone (Soni?) proposed a good solution, as far as anyone breaking into a home. A large sign with DANGER: VENEMOUS SNAKE FARM: DO NOT ENTER, with garden hoses painted to resemble snakes left inside sounded like a good burglar preventative.

The bear should be left to the game department, as mentioned above. Unless the bear threatens your life directly, some jurisdictions may cause serious legal hassles down the line. If nothing else, you can prove to your insurance company that you tried to take care of things legally.

Hope this helps.

-- j.r. guerra in s. tx. (jrguerra@boultinghousesimpson.com), March 18, 2002.

sounds good but in reality I think they'd still break in- after they're done laughing.

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), March 18, 2002.

Elizabeth, I don't know if this is what you are looking for or if it will even be effective but thought I'd pass it on any way. At a pre-Y2K workshop on security, the speaker suggested setting up big spring-loaded rat traps on your perimeter as a deterant. The noise they make are pretty loud especially if you're out in the woods and it is unexpected. Basically, rig a fishline trip-line and have the trap attached out of view on a tree or whatever. It'll also alert you to activity somewhere on your property. This might work better for the bear than the people.

Would those solar landscape lights around your hives help keep the bear away? Just a thought. Good luck!

-- Bren (wayoutfarm@skybest.com), March 18, 2002.

A small flock of geese is inexpensive, territorial and intimidating to casual thieves (and other visitors). Anyone who would shoot your geese would likely also shoot your dogs. Bears hate hot-wire, I'm told.

-- Laura Jensen (lauraj@seedlaw.com), March 18, 2002.

I absolutely do not understand the "don't want to defend myself with a gun" attitude. Around here (Maine), it is pretty well known throughout our little town that I, and almost all of our close neighbors, some as close as a quarter of a mile, are adequately armed. Some of us are a bit better armed than many small countries. Yet all of us are quite responsible folks that would blow away only despicable perps intent upon illegal activities. Of course, some of us reload devastating ammunition for the occassional elderly widow who doesn't have her own means to do so. Still, as a neighborhood, and community, we don't have much intrusion from the miscreants. Perhaps they wish to target the more liberal neighborhoods, the ones who think guns are the root of evil! (I must at this point, suggest that you leftists support me as the Rightful King of France. I will, in return, support you in your attempts to reaffirm the supporters of Communism, Socialism, and our heroes, to wit: Kennedy, Schumer, Boxer, Clinton, Marx, Stalin, et al. Long live the Left. Down with the Constitution! Your leftist buddy,

-- Brad (homefixer@SacoRiver.net), March 18, 2002.

Robberies occur everywhere. We were robbed in NYC and also on our farm. I vote for the dogs or caretakers.

-- Hank (hsnrs@att.net), March 18, 2002.

Thanks for the responses! Actually, I have two big dogs (German Shepherds) and a little, yappy one. I also have 12 guineas (surprise, nobody stole them!)

One of my problems is, as several of you mentioned, that the bad guys (or the bear) might kill my dogs, which I dearly love.

As to using guns, the commonwealth attorney told me that if I shoot anyone, even in self-defense (yes, I asked him!) that he would keep me in jail a long time while the court case was going on, so then who would take care of my chickens and dogs and bees (and guineas)?

I'm looking for some kind of device that when you step on it (a pressure pad or something) the perp (bear or man) gets a face full of tear gas and maybe covered with a garish unwashable-off dye! Or perfume? Some kind of spring-loaded device but not lethal, just heavy-duty obnoxious!

-- Elizabeth Petofi (arvon104@cs.com), March 18, 2002.

Elizabeth, that too could get you sued (eye damage from the dye, allergic to the perfume, etc.). Who owns the property (the 1000 acres of woods) around you? If the criminals accessed your property through the woods, you might be able to go after the owners.

The other option is to have a camera running 24/7, or at least when you're not there, trained on the easiest points of entry near stuff that people would steal. Post a camera sign or not, as it suits you, although posting some "No Trespassing" signs in line of sight of the camera would definitely make a difference.

You might want to check out your nearest really large city or the web for "spy shop" types of places (where you'd go to buy a "nanny cam" for instance). They would probably be able to help you more with your particular situation.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 18, 2002.

not sure if they're still in business but they were as of a few years ago. They make mechanical and electrically activated tear gas for security. They had some window and door unit that were fairly cheap. Tear gas doesn't really do much though if the person is determined. It's hard to make sure they get a face full of it with these too but anyway;

Scramco 852 W. 1st St Birdsboro, PA 19508 215-582-1694

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), March 18, 2002.

Hi I have a dog breed used for centuries by the nomads to protect againest bear-lion-hyena and 2 legged predators.

They are a natural breed with high defence drives they come in many types some look like Collies-Anatolian -Borzoi- bulldogs and the prefered type of the Nomads is the Mastiff type. Low prey drive and high defence with a body to match. This type Mastiff is not the Russian Ovcharka type but close to what the Afghans call Koochee dogs after the last remamaining nomadic tribe In central asia.

We just placed one in Ca to help a rancher againest Bear and Cougar. Which he sees daily.

I do breed these dogs however I do the USA National Rescue and sometimes i think it is better to save a life then buy one.

Mind you to get a dog that is a natural protector due to a strong distrust of stranger you are taking on alot of other issues. Fencing? neighbors. Neighbors dogs who come with no permession migth be considered a threat as thou the UPS man as well/

The Central Asian of Nomad tyoe is not like the Anatolian since the ASD has sighthound in its history and is longer taller less muscle and is more often used soley for livestock protection. Where is the nomads dog wants to be with family and protect from within a area that has kids-people and horses -camels-sheep

Pls visit my site and consider a rescue spring is coming and due to backyard breeders and mills we get alot of recues.

One such rescue was found on the streets of queens living on rats and having 5 mix litters in 5 years she is now for the first time protecting a young couple in Florida with her life.

Jeannine De Palma http://www.centralasianshepherd.com 716751 6927

-- J De palma (dogoflegends@yahoo.com), March 19, 2002.