What is the best breed of working dog?

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Ok. Last week I had twelve chickens. This week I have four. They disappear every night with no evidence left behind(no feathers,heads, half eaten bodies,etc.). I lost 3 during the day when no one was home. I suspect it is the fox we've seen in the area several times. But here's what I want to know. What is the best all around dog for work/guard. I know that sometimes you get that rare mongrel that turns out to be the best dog you ever had. But that's rare. I'm looking for something that will bring up the cows, put a goat back in the pasture if its out, warn me when someone drives up and above all warn me when a predator is around, and as a last resort; fight it off. Would this be a super dog or what? Are they out there? What do you have?

-- Red Neck (sesech@csa.com), March 22, 2002

Answers

a big one

-- Stan (sopal@net-pert.com), March 22, 2002.

Rhodesian Ridgeback

-- Elizabeth (ekfla@aol.com), March 22, 2002.

I have had several dogs in the past , mostly mutts, that would all do what you want done. The key is TRAINING !!! You have to WORK at training the dog, most will not train themselves. Most any dog will do if you put the work ( 1/2 hour a day every day for several months should do it.) Good luck. Tomas in b.c.

-- Tomas (bakerzee@hotmail.com), March 22, 2002.

Border collies, Great Pyrs and Blue Heelers.

-- al (yr2012@hotmail.com), March 22, 2002.

border collie. A good one from the amish is usually better than one with so-called pedigrees. (sorry registrar breeders) Get a pup, don't lock it or chain it up. Teach it to know your property borders. Give it a doghouse or shelter of some sort near the coop. It'll come naturally for the dog.

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), March 22, 2002.


I have an all around mutt. Doberman/ lab cross. He herds the escaped rabbits and the goats, he points like a bird dog when we go hunting (he alertd me when the deer where coming and I got my first doe thanks to him). He retrieves like a lab and likes water, too. And he makes a good guard dog- he bit a thief who was trying to steal a kidys playset off the property (it turned out the theif was a neighbor). And yes, in case anyone recalls, this is the same dog (named "DOG") who got smacked by the car a few weeks back, hes up and running just fine, thanks for all the help!!! The lab pup, however, got hit 3 days ago, and there was no saving her. I hate living 20 foot off a main road! I have seen Austrailan shepards doing some pretty commendable things. Personally, my vote goes to labs because they are good all around dogs, but prob. wouldnt be worth a dang for herding or defending the place- too friendly!

-- Kevin in NC (Vantravlrs@aol.com), March 23, 2002.

Get two dogs. Border Collie for the main herding, German Shepherd for helping with the herding but mainly for predator control as well as keeping unwanted people out (people see them and turn around and go). Dogs are pack animals and like having a buddy, anyway, plus it's more fun for us. :) Yes, you can bet it's the fox taking the hens. Taking birds in the daytime sounds like the tip off to me.

-- Jennifer L. (Northern NYS) (jlance@nospammail.com), March 23, 2002.

If you leave a Border Collie loose, it won't put the goat back in the pasture, it'll bring it to the porch, to you. That's their instinct. And Border Collies are not good for predators, maybe foxes, but not coyotes, unless you want to loose a lot of dogs. They are not made for fighting and winning like a Ridgeback. They will definiatly warn you, but what if you aren't home.

And Border Collies left loose tend to chase cars if the road is close. They are super dogs, but you must stay to the instincts they are born with, and not try to make them something they were not bred for.

You must raise the BC pup around the chickens and goats, but a pup left loose is just trouble waiting to happen. The American Farm Collie folks are trying to breed a dog like you describe, half Border Collie, half Austrialian Shepard. I'll find the links and post them here.

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@msn.com), March 23, 2002.


American Working Farm Collies

More Farm Collies

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@msn.com), March 23, 2002.


I have a red heeler who does it all .

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@hotmail.com), March 23, 2002.


I've always had collies my whole life. Great all around farm dogs, kid protectors, and herders. But also have a mutt [part lab] She is the best watch dog and livestock protection. Has a thing for getting coons, and never leaves the yard!!! I like having 2 dogs, one can back the other one up in a sticky situation....Another question would be..male or female???? I have one of each, both spayed and neutered of course...

-- Suzanne (weir@frontiernet.net), March 23, 2002.

Without a doubt a pryreness cross or a komander cross. but you still need to train them. Just because you got a dog doesn't mean it'll be any help, it took several years for my current newfie cross to get a clue that shes supposed to be a guard dog. Also remember that some of these dogs will protect you from your friends so again training and displine are very important. I once had a pryrenees/komandor who was the queen of farm dogs.

-- Ron (brfarm@rivah.net), March 23, 2002.

This subject comes up occasionally. Most dogs cannot "do it all". Cindy is right about Borders.(We currently raise Border Collies) Have you considered an American Eskimo for a farm dog? We had one that was fantastic. Couldn't herd of course but did everything else. She wasn't as small as some you find today but she was by no means a big dog. She still managed to keep two German Shepherds off the place until help came. Great dog.

-- Scotsirish (notreal@anywhere.net), March 23, 2002.

Get a donkey. They are great for guarding livestock and very intellegent. They hate dogs, foxes and coyotes and will chase them off. I have lost more hens to dogs than to any other preditor. No more dogs for me!

-- kim in CO (kimk61252@hotmail.com), March 23, 2002.

I have heard that border collies and other working dogs often cannot be left with stock unattended because they will work the stock for fun. That means the animals will be moving instead of eating and resting when they need to. Don't know if its true, but it's what I have heard.

-- Terri (hooperterri@prodigy.net), March 23, 2002.


our border collie ran loose on our farm. He never killed or bit any of our goats(7-10 nubian does most times) and he had full access to them at all times. He never killed any our of cats, in fact he routinely had a few curled up sleeping with him. He never chased cars or farm equipment. Our akc boxers did that though and they did always have to be penned up. The border collie fought off quite a few feral dogs that wandered on our property. When I would leave, he took position between the barn and house and no matter how long I was gone, he was sitting there when I got back. Even if it was 3am. Once in a great while he did run the goats for fun, but it rarely lasted more than a minute.

The Amish in the area had similar experiences with theirs. That's why I suggested an Amish bred. I've seen others here make the same comments about amish border collies. I'm sure the 'papered' bc's do have some bad habits. The registrars have ruined many dogs.

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), March 23, 2002.


I have mentioned English Shepherds before in this forum and cannot say enough about them. They have alot of instincts of the Border Collie, but not quite as gamey. Will leave livestock alone if raised with them, but ready to work when you are. We have also had a doberman that herded, killed snakes, guarded. Any dog willing to please you is usually a good all around dog. I also agree with getting a donkey or mule. Either are good at keeping predators away.

-- amy (amy_tarr@hotmail.com), March 23, 2002.

Well Thomas was right Training is the KEY. I have a friend with two border collie's and one mini poodle. Well that poodle would run with the collie's and is as good at moving the cows and calfs around as the collies LOL frankly I think the cows are more scared of it because as small as it is it confuses them LOL darnest thing I have ever seen.

-- Teresa (c3ranch@socket.net), March 23, 2002.

My sister has a Great Pyr. and she didn't have to train her to take care of the goats. My sister just built a small pen in the goat pen for the dog and she watched us put the goats up at night, and chase off critters, so now we let her out and she does the same! She is a real good watch dog and barks meanly at anyone she doesn't recognize. She is real good when there are hunters.. she really scares them off! My sister only had to do a bit of training like stuff. She just had to teach her not to play with the goats like dogs and to stay in the pen. The dog is a really fast learner and great fun to have around! Hope this helps! She is a really fast learner.

-- Sarah in OK (Princessmeatballhead@yahoo.com), March 25, 2002.

I am late with this but couldn't let it pass. Fence in your chickens. Protect them at night. As for a versatile dog. Stop and think what each breed has been developed for and go with a good all around working or herding dog and bring it up right. My preferences here are for Australian Cattle Dogs, but they are NOT for everyone. Raise the pup you pick with every kind of experiences that you can think of. Introduce it to obedience(gets the dog out and around and gives him or her a good look at the world), dog shows(any kind, agility, herding, whatever). Take your dog to town, to the beach, to the mountains, etc. The more you get your dog out and the more training you do(this is quality time with your dog)the more your dog will have an idea whats normal, whats acceptable, whats liked and whats not liked or disirable. There are many breeds that will do the job for you if you do a good job for them. Have fun. A puppy is the best thing in the world!

-- Little Quacker (carouselxing@juno.com), March 26, 2002.

a bloodhound i fish a lot and my dog stays in the 12 foot flatbottom with me.

-- bart levi (bassmaster11_7@yahoo.com), March 26, 2002.

I vote for the Border Collies. Mine keep the coyotes out of the yard, they work cattle, horses, sheep, chickens, ducks and the hogs. They have never killed an animal. (they sleep in the barn with the cats) They have never chased a car. They let me know when someone pulls into the drive. They are easy to train and willing to work. I have three right now, I raised two and got the third one when he was 2. I've just never had a problem with them.

-- cowgirlone in OK (cowgirlone47@hotmail.com), March 27, 2002.

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