How much do I shelter my kids? Need advice - LONG

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Hi all. I have a tough question and don't where else to find good solid advice.

I have a 2 1/2 year old little girl and a barley 4 year old son. Not bragging, but they are great kids. Of course they have their problems but all in all they are great! I only expect 2 things from them - obey and respect. They understand this and usually we have no problems. When we do, I disciple with a spanking (or whatever may be appropriate) and then it's over and they are back to great again! I stay home with them and will home school them.

Before I ask my question, I want you to understand some about us. We are very social people. My husband owns his own company and we are youth ministers. We have lots of friends and family around. BUT, somehow we are different. I actually EXPECT my kids to obey and be respectful. I think you should stay home and raise your kids and educate them (or at least be involved) and train them at home.

OK, I said all of that to ask this question... When all (literally ALL) of the other kids are being "Satan" like, do I allow my kids to stay around and play? My blood pressure soars even thinking about most of these kids. I am really not exaggerating either, we only know of a couple of kids who are even close to well behaved. And what irritates me is that the parents are so oblivious to how bad their kids are acting. My kids are at a very impressionable age. They copy a lot of the behavior and "too silly" junk that they see the other kids doing. We are constantly correcting ours lately with, "too silly", because our best friends have a 5 year old from (*deleted*) (OK, I'm venting, but I could bury him in the back yard and not blink an eye). I really am a Christian and tonight at youth group I am teaching on bridling your tounge :)

Anyway, do we let our kids have friends over, do we let them go to McDonald's and play when these kids are there, do we let our son play on a T ball team with these kids???

We are divided on sheltering at this age or using the times as teaching opportunities. Any advice or prespective would be awsome. I have to go relax after even thinking about these kids and their parents!!!

-- anonymous for now (someone@CF.net), April 04, 2002

Answers

While I do think children should have playmates, at this early of an age I do think it should be under strictly supervised situations. I never hesitated to correct any child's behaviour when they were in my home, or in a situation where I observed direct bad conduct. I would usually just explain in a metter of fact way to the parent, "oh I just saw suzy yank bobby's hair and I knew you would never want them to behave this way." Of course they agreed. If they did not like it that did not bother me!!!! I also did not get upset if someone corrected my children if they saw them doing something they shouldn't. If children learn that they can manipulate adults that is not a good thing!

So I would only allow them to play with other kids when I could watch closely, and make sure to explain to them afterwards exactly why you did not like some of the things the other kids were doing. It does work...

-- Melissa in SE Ohio (me@home.net), April 04, 2002.


I honestly don't think it is that important for children to be around other children their own age. It isn't "the real world". Let them be around adults, or older children you approve of instead.

And I hear you about the parents. Some parents will yell at you for correcting their child about anything, even if it is a safety issue. You might want to see if there is a homeschooling or church group or just another group of like-minded people with children. No one is going to think exactly like you do (for instance, I know a lot of people who don't join homeschooling groups because they don't happen to be homeschooling for religious reasons, and in their area, that's all their is), but you might be able to find at least a few people.

And finally, they're your children, and you might have to make a choice between your children and your best friends. For me, it would be an easy choice, but not necessarily for others.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), April 04, 2002.


Right up front I will say we do not have kids..That being said..I was reading your post and thinking about me as a kid. Hey .. we (my brother and sister and I) lived on a farm. We played by ourselves or with each other. End of story. When we were old enough to go to school..we intermingled with kids. I guess if I were having the problems you are, I would not be too excited about the kids and playmates for them. They are not all that old yet.

-- Sher (riverdobbers@webtv.net), April 04, 2002.

There's nothing wrong with sheltering young children, and I believe the advice you have received here is all good.

I am, however, very disturbed that a person in your position is speaking in such a manner about other people's young children. It is the belief of my faith that Satan has no control at all over children of the ages you describe. If they lack discipline, they are still children. How can you call yourself a Christian and say, even in jest, that you could bury one of these children! Christ said, suffer the little children to come unto me and forbid them not, for OF SUCH is the kingdom of Heaven. I respectfully would ask you to reevaluate your own attitudes toward these children.

-- mary (mlg@mlg.com), April 04, 2002.


Well Rebecca, I could've written your post almost...the only differnce is we have 4 children (9,7,4,2) We are the youth ministers in our church. I used to be very social, but realized that my calling is to raise my kids the right way. What that meant to us was no more "women's ministry" because it meant haveing our children looked after by someone else, with all the young hooligans:) We still do family bible study (where all are involved) one night a week, and the other two families aren't homeschoolers and their kids are worldly, but we are right there together to watch what goes on. The youth activities have been toned down because I can only spend so much time, and energy on the teens. Bacically, the children are my mission and the other stuff will still be there (or not:)) when they are bigger.

As far as sheltering your little ones, I always use this examle. Jesus started his formal ministry when he was 30. Not 5 or 6 for those who spout off about our kids being a light in the darness of public school (I may spit up.) He was loved sheltered and nurtured by his folks and his close family (who all had the same beliefs, by the way) for 30 years!!! I can and will at least keep mine under wings until they are older teens.

So you are doing it right, it sounds like in my opinion, and the Lord will lead if you listen! God bless you and your treasures. Cara in OR

-- Cara Dailey (daileyd@agalis.net), April 04, 2002.



Mary I do agree. I love all children so much, even the ornery ones!! They are not doing it on purpose and your love and compassion and kindness can set such a great example to these little ones. Sometimes at preschool they can get a little rowdy!! but I still care about all of them and wish them only the best. Each child has a lot of potential locked inside of them. I believe in a concept called "self-fullfilling prophecy" If you tell a child they are good and kind, loving and considerate, guess what? That is what they will be. If you tell them they are bad, worthless, useless, Guess again? that is what they will be. I have watched my own children just blossom with a few sincere compliments, and all of the children I have taught over the years in pre-school as well. It is amazing to see the transformation and I have never given up on them.

-- Melissa in SE Ohio (me@home.net), April 04, 2002.

Shelter them from the rain, cold, heat, and the bad "socialization" all you can. They'll get plenty of toughening up in life soon enough.

-- charles (cr@dixienet.com), April 05, 2002.

I thought of this post overnight as I might step on some peoples toes if I didn't write this diplomatically. I'm a mother, grandmother and former child care provider. Therefore I've seen a lot of children. It doesn't matter what we, as outsiders, expect of other peoples children. They will react to what their parents expect of them! Your children DO NOT have to be around children who leave a negative impression of them. In fact, they shouldn't be! Why inflict those awful children on yours? Now, some of you will disagree with this, but there are Satin-like children! Sorry if this offends you, but I've seen wonderful, caring parents produce such children. They are Hell-bent on creating trouble whereever they go! And, all the guidance and prayer doesn't make a dent on their actions. So, when you see such children, grab your own and run because, as sure a God made little green apples, they will try to influence the good kids to be bad.

-- Ardie/WI (ardie54965@hotmail.com), April 05, 2002.

Proverbs says that even a child is known by his actions. Your words are a good example of that principle. Concerned about our homeschooling our children, people wondered that they would have little opportunity to be "socialized." The answer to that is simple: children are socialized by adults. Put them with other kids, and they learn bad habits! Ours pick up bad words and attitudes (besides the ones they're parents may still demonstrate) from kids at basketball, swimming, and on the street. That is one reason we have disconnected the TV as well.

As kids get older, says Ross Campbell in How to Really Love Your Teenager, they will try out a number of behaviors, as if they were trying on clothes. Most of them they will soon discard. But they are learning who they are and what kind of people they will be. My boys, for example, are in a stage of shaving their heads. That one I let pass.

Anyway, all that to say this: don't go "out of the world," to the point you close yourselves off. Your responsibilities to others continue regardless of having kids or no. But don't let association with other kids influence your children's behavior to the point that your teaching and example are diminished. Homeschooling will prevent that greatly. And dialogue will go a long way, too.

I probably haven't said anything you didn't already know, huh? ;-)

-- Randal at home in Brazil (randal@rhyme.cjb.net), April 05, 2002.


You only expect 2 things from them - obey and respect. Problem is you can expect them to obey, but respect is something you earn. You cant force someone to respect you.

Now, What are the kids doing that you dont like? You said they are doing all these wrong thing but what are they? Are they just running around be kids. Is it specific actions? Specific langague? what?

Off hand I would say, you want perfect acting robot children and your friends have normal active children that need a little parental control. I think there is space for both set of kids to meet in the middle.

If you think keeping your kids away from "evil" influances will keep them safe your wrong. They will eventually have to enter the real world. Without the "skills" to deal with the evil and the experience its going to be very tramatic for them. If the other children are over then your house rules do apply. You have to apply them to all kids fairly. If the kids dont listen then you need to deal with the issue, but you shouldnt shelter your kids at this age. Your kids are in a very social time of their lives. They need other kids. If they pick up bad habits then you correct that.

If you want to take another approach maybe your kids can minister to the children. Maybe the other kids need a little christian infulence.

My son has been able to get over 1/2 the student in his class to attend our wednesday church "caravan" children program. My DS thinks all he doing bringing his friends to play at church, but most are getting christian expoure for the first time in their lives.

Let the kids be kids, let them play and be kids.

-- Gary in Ohio (gws@columbus.rr.com), April 05, 2002.



My children grew up oversees because of my husband's job. Anyway, the closest English speaking family was an hour away. We also lived in a very rural area. The point is I homeschooled because of the above reasons and now we are in Oklahoma. Both girls are at different Universities doing great with lots of friends. They were definitely sheltered not by choice but situation. They never attended a day of class until college. In fact their first test was the ACT and both did great after they figured out the dots! The oldest even gets money back on her scholorships. So all those years of me knocking myself in the head worrying about "social skills" they're fine. Raise your kids the way you want, we still live in a free country. Debbie

-- debbie (bwolcott@cwis.net), April 05, 2002.

When your children are as young as your two you need to be their protector. If you do not like what is happening when your children are around correct the other kids or remove your children from the situation. Even if it means getting a babysitter for them when you do youth group ministries. I would rather have kids over to play than to sent them over to someone else's house unless both families had the same values and you trusted them. Of course you let them play with the kids at McDonald's but you stay out in the play yard and watch. Yes, you let them play T-ball but you stay around and watch. Then if things come up you can talk to your kids about what was wrong with other kids behavior. We homeschooled our kids and avoided a lot of peer influence but we did not isolate them from other kids. They need to be able to live in the world just not be like the world. When they are young they need to be helped to understand what is wrong with some of those kids behaviors.

-- Nancy (nannyb@huntel.net), April 05, 2002.

I wanted to sleep on this one: so much of this is a judgement call. It isn't just the problems you see in the other kids: it's to what degree you see them doing it. Small children are often cruel, but are they CONSISTANTLY cruel? it makes a big difference, between ignorance (tolerable at their age-also teachable at their age) and between being a personality flaw.

I am reminded of a neighbor child my daughter liked to play with who swore. I accepted the problem and did damage control with my own girl because there wasn't anyone else in the neighborhood for her to play with and my own daughter was learning approppriate and valuable social skills. Maybe some kids pick them up from parents but this child wasn,t: she WAS learning them from this child. I reminded myself that nobody is perfect, not even kids. I was able to squelch my daughters swearing after a few episodes of "you are not allowed to say that word" along with a few reminders as the months went on. Eventually, to my relief, the other girl stopped swearing; I don't know why but I assume someone worked with her on it. Now neither girl swears and my daughter has retained the social skills (GRIN!).

The point I am trying to make is that you have to take each child on an individual basis. What are your children benefiting from each child? Can you do damage control from the encounter from the child? Only you can say. Good luck!

-- Terri (hooperterri@prodigy.net), April 05, 2002.


Sigh.....welcome to parenting. I've been dealing with this for a while now. My children are 13 and 11. We are christian homeschoolers too. I am accused of over sheltering my children all the time. However I receive wonderful complements on their behavior (which doesn't say much for other peoples kiddos..lol) so I must be doing something right. My son is definately making me 'pay for my raising'...that's the 13 yr old. I can't imagine how much worse he would be if he were in public school around all the bad influences. Anyone that doesn't believe our young people are circling the drain should go and spend an hour observing kids at a park. My opinion is they only have one childhood....there is only one time in their lives where I can help influence them....no way would I undo that by letting them be around some of the bad kids. Now this doesn't mean that there aren't some very nice kids(usually the ones with parents that care) and I want my kiddos to interact with them as much as possible. We are a bit more isolated than most(live wayyyyyy out in the boonies) and I can't be around large crowds of people(I'm like an all you can eat buffet to any cold germ in a 100 yr radius) so most of their socializing is at church or when we have friends over. You know what the funny thing is.....my kids are best friends. I once was ease dropping on the two of them in their room. They were talking about being bored....then they discussed possible subjects they could argue about! I was rolling on the floor laughing....a brother and sister discussing what they would like to argue about to liven things up a bit! Remember back not too long ago kids stayed at home and their playmates were their siblings. Gee we didn't hear about nearly as many horrendous acts back then....couldn't have hurt em too much. You could always do what a friend of mine did....have enough kids to start your own baseball team...then they have plenty of kids to play with :o). I know your kids aren't old enough to start worrying about this sort of thing yet....but I'd like to go ahead and give ya nightmares :o). The kids of today are going to be the people your children will choose spouses from one of these days!

-- Amanda (mrsgunsmyth@hotmail.com), April 05, 2002.

Thank you all for taking the time to speak with me on this issue. I totally agree with most of you and maybe just needed to hear someone agree with me. I don't have support other than my family around here for the way we raise our kids. Its good to hear other people feeling and dealing with the same things.

You are right that I was very harsh with my language. Sorry if I offended anyone. However, I do believe that children are not born little saints and then turn bad. It's the other way around... We are all born with an evil nature, "folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it from them" Proverbs 22:15. I believe that it is my job to point them to God and "drive the evil nature out of them".

It is not the youth group that is a problem and they only have 1 REAL playmate and that is our best friends 5 year old son. He is the worst for us. I NEVER allow them to go to someones house with out us or to play unsupervised. The other night at McDonald's it was me and my friend and our 3 kids. I don't really like (yes I love - but don't like at all) this kid, but we went to play because I do damage control and don't allow too much time with him. Anyway, a t- ball team came in after practice and absolute *deleted*) broke loose on the playground. It was all 4, 5 and 6 year olds and they were absolutely wild, all while their parents sat and ate peacefully ignoring it all. My kids came and sat down because they didn't even want to play with these wild kids. Their parents would direct them to do something or stop something and the kids (all of them - not just a couple) would say no or throw a fit. Mom just sat and smiled and said something like, "He's just tired". Well I know my friends son and it's not just when their tired!!!!!!

No, I don't expect perfect kids. Far from it. Mine act up A LOT. But, they know it's wrong and I take responsiblity for disciplining them. My kids are way normal - but not if you consider normal defiant and disobedient and disrespectful. I must also respectfully disagree on the issue of kids giving respect. Yes, you earn respect. But, my kids WILL speak to people with respect and they WILL honor other people with their words and attitudes. That is not up for discussion. They may not respect someone, but they WILL demonstrate respect with their words and attitudes. I believe that more parents should DEMAND respect and they might get it. I know that my kids get angry with me from time to time but they will NOT yell or speak rudely to me or anyone else for that matter. I am a very normal parent even though it may not seem it here. We are young and very likeable people. I just believe in parenting the way the Bible directs us to.

Just an example... When our friends are over for dinner.... this kid will eat a little bit very quickly and then be allowed down from the table. He is loud and messy while he eats and then when he is done he will LITERALLY run around the table hollering and be all up in my kids faces while they are eating. My kids are difficult eaters. They eat good and healthy but they piddle (I don't know if that's a word) and we make them finish before they get down. Anyway, I have to constantly ask this kids to stop so that they can finish eating and I have to correct my kids because they start playing and not eating. His mom says nothing!!!!!!!!!!! If dad is there he will correct him but the kid just ignores until he gets a spanking. After dinner they will go play in their rooms. This kid is constantly whining about something. They have a toy that he wants, they hit him (even thought they do on occassion, most of the time it is accidents in playing) it's always something and the mom has the nerve to get onto my kids for hitting him!!!! Of course if they hit him that's OK, but she doesn't even ask for circumstances, I do and I believe my kids (most of the time). By the end of the evening I am angry and very much disliking their kid. It probably doesn't sound like much of problem here but when your there it's really bad. We did quit inviting them over, but they do stop by occassionally. I am not the type of person that likes confrontation. I just correct my kids and we talk about it later.

The problem is that seemingly EVERYONE I know has kids similar to this. They may not all be as bad but it's just like the parents have no clue. They see their kids for a few hours a day and think they are just great. I feel sorry for my kids that they can't enjoy some of the same things but I just can't allow them to be constantly exposed to this stuff.

As for what behavior, it's not always specific behavior. A lot of it is attitude. I know that kids are rowdy, but is it wrong to expect some basic manners and respect for others around. I teach my son to let girls go first on the slides and to watch out for his sister and younger kids. Is that really too much to ask? I do expect alot from my kids but I know that they are very much capable of living up to my and God's standards if I train them appropriatly and expect it from them.

For the record, I would NEVER speak harshly to a child. I agree that people live up to what is said to them. These are my "private" thoughts on the matter. I just need to vent and also to gain perspective from others in similar situations and get advice. I may be crazy and just need someone to tell me that!

Thanks Again!!

-- anonymous for now (someone@CF.net), April 05, 2002.



Thank you for a little more perspective. To me it sounds like this kid wants attention! And he is going to get it one way or the other!!! Here is what I have told my kids to do when playing with friends at our home or their own. If things are not going well, I tell them to just come and sit quietly by me! this way they are away form the unruly child, and don't risk getting in trouble themselves. Another thought, maybe you can "catch" this kid being good. I'm sure he might do something nice, even if you have to really stretch for an honest compliment!!! If he sees that you will basically ignore his bad behaviour (like when he is running around acting crazy, just pretend he is not even there!) then praise his good behaviour he will maybe quit. A few weeks ago in preschool there is a child who was not being very nice, he started to scream and cry during our school time. His Mom made him sit ant the desk. well I just ignored him and had all of the other kids start singing their ABC song. The kids are so funny! They all started singing as LOUD as they could. So loud they drowned him out. He quit crying. Then during story time, he startred again. Then I told all the kids to listen, as it was raining to see if they could hear the rain. He was wailing at the top of his lungs, but when eveyrone else became completely silent, he stopped right in the middle of a loud wail!! It was like someone shut him off. Generally with kids I have found that ignoring disruptive behaviour (unless they are hurting someone) works pretty well. Praising good behaviour helps reinforce the desire to do the right thing. This is for other people's children, your own it will work too, but you also need to let them know there will be consequences for their behaviour.

-- Melissa in SE Ohio (me@home.net), April 05, 2002.

I have read some of these posts but don't have time to read them all...I just wanted to say....the most well-behaved children that I am or have been around are the homeschooled kids who grew up basically just having their siblings as playmates!

-- Suzy in Bama (slgt@yahoo.com), April 05, 2002.

This reminds me so much of my bnrother's children when they were little ones. I dreaded there visits to our home. My brother and his wife would sit there and be oblivious to horrid behavior that drove me insane and confused my children. My niece and nephew threw food, were allowed to get down from the table and crawl under other folks' chairs and pinch legs, etc....one day I simply lost it...I told them that they were not going to be welcomed any longer on our home if they would not discipline their children...I didn't see or hear from my brother in 20 years. My niece and nephew turned into selfish miserable adults. There are many. many parents who abdicate responsibility for their children or chalk bad behavior up to "being kids'...children will behave as they are expected to behave..it is very simple.....I applaud you for wanting to protect your children from bad influences..it is so confusing to children to see other parents not discipline appropriately...on the other hand...LOL....when this child is in your home, playing with YOUR children, you have the right to step in and teach that child how to behave in your home..perhaps it may rub off..if his parents don't like it, then I guess they will break off the realtionship...there is no relationship worthy of damaging your children.....cannot count the number of kiddos who used to come to our home to play and had ill manners and then changed after lots of lessons on our part..the parents didn't care..they were too busy ignoring their children to care WHAT they did one way or the other, so don't forget to try and teach the other little one..you could bring him around..maybe...God bless.

-- lesley (martchas@bellsouth.net), April 06, 2002.

I have been thinking about this a lot lately, how I have reached a point of calm, peace of mind. My husband and I think sheltering is a GOOD thing! I am finally comfortable with the number of friends my children have (just a few close friends). I seem to attract many homeschooling parents - maybe it is that I have several children and homeschool, or that I live on a farm.

Anyway, here is our rule regarding friends: We let ourselves get close ONLY to those families that we would trust to watch our children. In other words, do they share our faith, rules for respecting parents, limit t.v. and sugar, etc.? If so, our children are free to call and set up playdates. If not, I do not accept invitations for playdates, offer to babysit, or open my home up for playdays. Sounds harsh, maybe, but I am tired of mothers from homeschooling groups suggesting we trade babysitting, etc. I found myself making excuses as to why I would not leave my baby with them. This was not healthy or honest. When I agreed to watch their children, they typically brought over unruly, sick children. I used to feel that I had a responsibility to offer assistance to these families, but a few bad experiences led me to see that I needed to think of my children's wellbeing first.

We have harmony in our home. My children play together well, mind me, and do not expect to be entertained constantly. We are seldom sick. I cannot say the same for many children that we meet in organized sports or playgroups.

As far as Mcdonald's playparks, or similar crowded areas, I avoid them simply because of germs and foul language (and unhealthy food). Our boys participate in organized sports, but we live in a rural area and the children involved are our neighbors, who are terrific folks (a blessing, I know!). Our children range in age from 3-14.

Hope this helps!

-- Lisa in OR (langfordfam@proaxis.com), April 09, 2002.


Whenever I start thinking what brats my kids might be, a trip to the zoo or park usually cures that notion on what a real brat is. I see a lot of demonically controled children out in the world and many more who simply want adult attention of any kind. It is very sad, but they are not my primary responsibility, nor are my kids spiritually or morally strong enough to overcome this behavior in other children on their own.

I do not have a problem verbally correcting anybody's children while they are in my children's or my company. I feel silence is a passive approval of bad behavior and that is why our children will try it out on us. Since I started saying such things as, "Please don't talk to your mother like that, it is disrespectful, rude and a very bad example for the other children," parents and children clean up their act when we are around.

I believe as Christian parents, we must raise the standards of any group we are in. Any group that prefers gutter behavior is one we withdraw from.

-- Laura (Ladybugwrangler@hotmail.com), April 11, 2002.


The Scripture says, "A wise man chooses his friends carefully." Until your children are able to do the wise choosing, you need to help them. We have also homeschooled our now 14 year old son and 16 year old daughter for the last 11 years. When my daughter was 9 years old, our family became friends with a neighboring homeschooled family who's daughter was 7. The first time she and her mother came to our home my "radar" went off. My daughter literally stared in unbelief when it was time for them to leave. Their daughter folded her arms, stamped her foot and yelled a big fat "no" right in her mother's face. Because we were new to the area and I had prayed for homeschooled friends for my children, we continued to socialize with this family. As time went on, I learned why a "wise man chooses his friends carefully." Don't think your child's good behavior will rub off on the other child. Over time this relationship became "exhausting." I was always the one who was correcting this child because her mother sat silent. When they would leave, I would talk with my daughter about her friend's behavior. At first my daughter was able to see this, but as time went on, she defended her friend...she didn't want me to point out anything negative about her. Almost every night the phone would ring close to bedtime asking if my daughter could come over to play. Eventhough I had nicely asked her mother not to call after a certain hour, she would let her call knowing I would say no. She told me she did this because she didn't want to listen to her daughter whine all night...if I said "no" then I was the "meanie." You get the picture... Today my daughter looks back with more mature eyes and laughingly says, "If I'm a Mom someday and a kid like that comes around, I'll know what to do...run." We both learned a valuable lesson. Just because a Christian, homeschooled (or otherwise) family crosses your path with kids the same age as yours -- even if they're neighbors -- don't think your kids need to play with them. The Scripture says you "choose" your friends and you choose them "carefully." We should pray and ask for direction and wisdom, look to the Scripture for wisdom and guidance and to wise counselors, and then we "carefully choose." Most of the time you can tell after a few get togethers if the other child is like yours -- not perfect, but willing to be lovingly corrected if need be -- or with some negatives you can live with -- or a fullblown "brat." My advice...run from the "brats," have guarded time with the "negatives you think you can live with" and lovingly see if you can help, and enjoy the sweet fellowship of those who build your children up in the faith.

-- (IXOYE.KAR@verizon.net), September 09, 2002.

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