Is this for real?? Cloning HUMAN : LUSENET : Freedom! self reliance : One Thread

A woman taking part in a controversial human cloning programme for infertile couples is now eight weeks pregnant, revealed Dr Severino Antinori, the well known Italian doctor involved in the cloning project banned in his home country and the USA.

Speaking on his flying visit to the UAE to lecture at the conference on 'Future of genetic engineering and debate on cloning programmes throughout the world' held here at the Zayed Centre for Co-ordination and Follow-Up, Dr Antinori revealed: "Our project is at a very advanced stage. One woman among the thousands of infertile couples in the programme is eight weeks pregnant."

Dr Antinori was replying to a question on the status of his project, which he had outlined last year along with Dr Panos Zavos, a Kentucky-based infertility expert, at a cloning conference held by the National Academy of Sciences in Washington.

But Dr Antinori, a director of an Infertility unit at the International Centre for the Study of Physiopathology of Human Reproduction in Rome, refused to reveal the country from which the woman comes.

"We have nearly 5,000 infertile couples in this project now," he added. He is known as the "father of the impossible children".

Dr Antinori and Dr Zavos' project involves transferring the DNA from the nuclei of living cells into a woman's ovum to create a human embryo which would then be implanted into a woman's uterus.

Replying to a question from a member in the audience at the Zayed Centre on the reason for the premature ageing of Dolly, the cloned sheep, Dr Antinori said they had, indeed, observed ageing in cloned animals.

But new advances were being made in this field every day, and they have found animal cloning insufficient and it is likely to remain so in the future. "We see different results in different species," he pointed out.

Cloning the human is very different from cloning sheep, he added. He said that the success rate in sheep was low compared with other species. Furthermore, these cloning experiments were poorly designed and executed, he concluded.

The chances of deformation in assisted reproduction in humans is four per cent, though in women aged over 40 it is six per cent. However, new experiments reduce the catastrophic possibilities, he pointed out.

He stressed that they have reduced the risk of deformation in cloning before transplanting the embryo into the womb. "I concede the risk but you have to be careful," he admitted.

However, Dr Antinori claimed to be involved in "therapeutical cloning" and believed there were immense possibilities of curing diseases by using some key cells to renew the tissue. "I have good information that in cardiac diseases we can renew the tissue with some cells because some cells hold the key to produce new tissues."

Therapeutic cloning is also done in the complete absence of the testes or in the lack of mature sperm, he said. However, he was forbidden from pursuing his research in this field in his home country and conducts his work in other countries.

Dr Antinori also lambasted the USA for imposing a five-year moratarium on the cloning programme. "I don't understand their opposition; they seem to be afraid of good experimental research in the field of assisted reproduction. Like atomic energy, cloning can be used for beneficial purposes - to increase population and to open the window of genetic reprogramming."

But he said there has always been resistance to new medical developments to treat male infertility as in the case of artificial insemination and in-vitro fertilisation.

People criticise us saying we are pandering to the vulnerable but we are doctors and will not harm a person, he reiterated.

"It is difficult to work in this field. There is a lot of pressure and investigation against my work," he admitted.

Terming the U.S. ban as a violation of human rights, he stated that everyone had the right to transmit their particular characteristics to their progeny, or to use cloning to reduce infertility.

Most couples they had interviewed, he said, wanted to have a biological child of their own. In fact, cloning creates ordinary children who grow up to be unique individuals, he claimed.

Dr Antinori was happy to be in an Islamic culture which was open and described it as an effective culture that helps scientific progress. The country pays great attention to the importance of establishing human scientific research centres.

-- Doreen (, April 04, 2002


I wouldn't be surprised if one day it is revealed that human cloning was being experimented with as far back as the mid 70s.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (, April 05, 2002.

My thinking has always been that Genetic engineering/cloning took place maybe 10,000 to 15,000 years ago or even longer.

-- TomK(mich) (, April 05, 2002.

here's an interesting site

-- kim in CO (, April 05, 2002.

I agree, Jay; my son, a veterinarian, told me years ago that he felt pretty certain that he could clone a human, if he were back at his school with the equipment he'd used in "making" various types of animals.

Doreen, how do you suppose that Dr. Antinori can say that "cloning creates ordinary children who grow up to be unique individuals..."? Does he know of some clones who are grown up??

Another facet: would you, I or others discriminate against someone who turns out to be a clone?

-- joj (, April 05, 2002.

I am sure that they have already cloned humans, as to how long they have been allowed to live, ??? Several years ago they were transplanting human embryos into cattle and aborting them at 14 they said.

Whether or not I would discriminate against a clone is also an interresting question. I assure you I wouldn't date one!

-- Doreen (, April 06, 2002.

TomK, what makes you think clonning was going on 10,000 to 15,000 years ago maybe longer? I also have beliefs that it is an old ancient lost art that is resufacing again, but have no proof or not heard or read anyting to base my beliefs on .I think of the discovery of clonning humans similar to the discovery of the Americas by Cristobal Colon, the guy we call Christopher Columbus.It was obviously discovered before him, but there is proof (native Americans).Where evidence of clonnings from the past isn't available to the common man.I figure there must be technological information found in the pyrimids in Egypt that hasn't been made available to the public that might even include clonning techniques.One fact that was made recently public ,that some had tried to keep from being made public was, that test on the skin samples of mummies showed that they had tobbaco, corn and cocaine in their skin tissue, proving the Egyptians and possibly others had travel and trade with the western hemisphere ( Americas) thousands of years ago.Who knows what other facts were discovered that are being kept secrete from the general public. Theories of evolution has left man searching for evidence of the missing link between man and ape,and I'm not updated on the info but I believe we haven't acknowledged if we found the link yet.My belief is, we are the missing link.The link between ape and another creature that is techically more advanced and that we are the product of gene splicing and clonning techniques of apes and the other unknown creature.We can't find evidence of a missing link if it is ourselves that we are looking for,unless we found the creature we are the link to. To go further into my beliefs will probably fluff up some feathers, but in the bible it states that the person called Eve was made by God from the rib bone he took from Adam.Sounds like clonning to me.And in other mythologies there are stories of half human, half animal creatures that once lived on earth.

-- SM Steve (, April 06, 2002.

Some very interesting thoughts on here...

I guess Eve was a not a clone of Adam, different gender for one thing!

Is it just my imagination or have all clones so far been female?

-- john hill (, April 07, 2002.

john hill, I might be mistaken but I was led to believe man (males) had both male and female cromosomes .And that certain enviromental conditions and influences on the males sperm were responsible for the determination of the sex of the off spring .This is in conventional reproduction.If through clonning techniques combined with genetic engineering they can remove or alter genes to eliminate negative traits, like poor eyesight, disease or other traits we consider faults or weaknesses,I'd think the sex can be altered also.Clonning means a genetically identical copy of the spieces that is clonned.But there is talk of clonning that can produce super human of higher than nomal intelligence.So clonning with gene alteration is probably able to make the off spring not a photo copy of the parent . Most clones of animals are bigger than the original parent or parents of which they were cloned from. Dr. Antinori words (unique individuals).Another questain, would a race of clones with higher than average intelligence and strenght with an ability to resist disease and chemical fallout ( pollution ) discriminate against normal humans, and would the day come when we are considered inferior and obsolete?

-- SM Steve (, April 07, 2002.

Steve, it is talked about in the Bible. Satyrs and the like. I can't recall the man's name who made this theory of us being clones fairly popular, but if you are interested in such things you might want to check out David Icke's site. I think it is just www.davidicke. It's a bit much for me, but interesting in a sci fi fashion.

-- Doreen (, April 07, 2002.

Thanks Doreen, I'll check out that web site.

-- SM Steve (, April 08, 2002.

I can not believe people are messing with this. I refuse to live in a world where children can be born without souls. This will be the end. Once again we are doing something because we can.

-- David (, January 02, 2003.

im bored i am in psre

-- darryl owen (, April 07, 2003.

I believe there is nothing wrong with cloning, human or otherwise. For all those who so staunchly believe in God and religion answer me this, why would god give us the 'means' to clonning if it wasnt His intended 'end' since the very begining? What are we arguing about ? When we all know that somewhere in the not-too-distant future there will be clonning....we are funny people...we worship the dead saints and persecute the living ones....i guess the same applies to the revolutionary or the radical is like religion it reqiures faith .... so lets show some.. because if it hadnt been for this same science and faith we would still be living in the dark ages and losing our loved ones to diseaes like small pox and cholera....

-- mansi (, June 28, 2003.

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