I have a kind of odd question but since this *is* a Catholic forum :) what better place to go ask.

I know that men pray the rosary, too, but there don't seem to be any rosary bracelets for men out there. If there were, would you men wear them? Thanks for any insight here.

-- Jackiea (sorry@dontlikespam.com), April 06, 2002

Answers

Hi Jackiea,

I just want to let you know, that despite the fact that some kids wear rosaries around their neck, the rosary is not a piece of jewelry. It is a device for prayer to God. The rosary is a wonderful way to unite ourselves to Jesus by contemplating the life of Jesus. It's a powerful prayer to pray alone or to pray with others--don't be shy to ask someone to pray the rosary with you.

That being said, I have three types of rosaries. I'll go briefly through each:

1) The "classic" 5-decade rosary. This has beads for five decade. Each decade contains one bead for the "Our Father" and ten beads for the "Hail Mary"s. Plus, a few beads between the five-decade "loop" and the cross.

2) The "ring" rosary. This is a plastic ring that fits on a finger. The "ring" has a cross and ten little spheres around the ring. You can say one decade each time you go around the ring, and it's discrete...nobody will notice that you're in prayer.

3) The one-decade rosary. This is made similar to normal rosaries; but these have beads enough for one-decade of the rosary. This may be the "bracelet-style," as you could probably fit it around your wrist as you pray.

Naturally, whether a rosary is one- or five-decades, they prayer is the same.

My humble advice: rosaries are for prayer and for share, but not for wear. :-)

Mateo

-- (MattElFeo@netscape.net), April 07, 2002.

Hi, Jackiea.

" There don't seem to be any rosary bracelets for men out there. If there were, would you wear them?

In my OP, Jackiea, I don't think it is a odd question at all! But, I think the difference, would be in the size of the bracelet, and not the gender of person you are buying one for.

The rosary bracelets come in different sizes, but they are the same "type "for a man or a women. I think the standard size is (7.5") for rosary bracelets.

Now, with this being said. I think it would take a man, that has a little confidence in him self, to wear the rosary bracelet. I know people will always ask about it out of cuiousity! I think that is a great idea. ( and realy shows where your heart is ).

" Always be ready to give an explanation to anyone who asks you for a reason for your hope, but do it with gentleness and reverence, keeping your conscience clear, so that, when you are maligned, those who defame your good conducts in Christ may themselves be put to shame. ( l Peter 3:15-16 )

God bless you, and your family.

David S

-- David S (asdzxc8176@aol.com), April 07, 2002.

OK...so I've found "Rosary Braclets" advertised at www.catholicshopper.com! Well, the links to their bracelets are here. and here.

As a guy, I'd vote on the "6mm Sterling" version. It seems manly! :-)

Well, I'm learning a lot!

Mateo

-- (MattElFeo@netscape.net), April 07, 2002.

Hi, folks.

I come from a generation in which nearly all males would not be caught dead doing/wearing things associated with femininity -- for example, dying hair blonde, wearing makeup, wearing earrings, wearing decorative necklaces, wearing decorative bracelets, etc..
And I definitely stand with that majority of my generation. I find those cross-over behaviors repulsive, signs of a degeneration of human civilization. It happens the other way too, with women/girls trying to do/wear things associated with masculinity (even tattoos).

The aberrations have been spreading, in my opinion, because of the media's bombarding society with propaganda favoring the Same-Sex Attraction [SSA] disorder (what most people call homosexuality). Sorry to gross anyone out, but it has long been true that the dominant "masculine" people (whether male or female) who suffer from SSA know the more submissive "feminine" (male or female) sufferers by the fact that the latter wear/do/speak in ways associated with feminity.

I wish to discourage all healthy men from behaving in these abnormal ways and from approving of these behaviors. People are so amazingly ignorant nowadays. I just read that the percentage of Americans approving of same-sex "marriages" has jumped from something like 30 to 45 percent in perhaps a decade.

So it won't come as any surprise that I don't find any of the illustrated rosary bracelets to be "manly." (Sorry, Mateo.) I think that they are all very feminine and would be nice for women to wear if they would also be used for prayer. I am definitely not speaking against the rosary for men. I always carry one and play a rosary audio casette on my way to work each morning.

God bless you.
John

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), April 07, 2002.

John says: " I come from a generation in which nearly all males would not be caught dead doing/wearing things associated with femininity -- for example, dying hair blonde, wearing makeup, wearing earrings,....yadda yadda yadda"....

I would think your generation would also not be caught dead wearing ....long hair! But then you don't list that, why is that?????

And for intelligent and factual clarification....... you refer to homosexuality as: " Same-Sex Attraction [SSA] disorder"

Although you may personally not be accepting of Homosexuality please do not reference it as such...there is NO SUCH listing in the DSM and Homosexuality is not listed or considered as a "disorder" by the American Psychiatric Association nor the American Psychological Association or the mental health community as a whole. This is where it is important to separate Scientific facts from religious beliefs. It is your religious beliefs that so frame it. Please make that clear or someone may sue you John.

And...are you equating femininity with submissiveness???? I'm not sure I understand that. Could you expand on that a bit. Thank you. Joan

-- Joan Storey (godessss@mindspring.com), April 07, 2002.

John

Gee, you forget that in centuries past the men of those eras who wore long hair and earings to show position and rank was very common. Also the use of wigs is still common among the European courts today. Washington and others did wear wigs too. Earings were also worn by seafaring men too. Yet it has nothing to do with sexual orientation. Fashion is something that comes and goes. Sexual orientation never came and went.

-- Fred Bishop (fcbishop@globaleyes.net), April 07, 2002.

Hello, everyone and thanks for the opinions. :) Mateo, I'll check out those links you provided in just a moment.

The thing is I make rosaries and rosary bracelets, as well as other jewelry. I've actually had a few men ask me about this and that's part of the reason why I wanted some other Catholics opinions on whether or not they would wear them. I've made rosaries for men but not the bracelets. I received a wooden prayer rosary from Medjugorje a while back. My husband asked if he could have it. So, I gave it to him. He wears it as a bracelet, from time to time. Or it's in his truck, along with his other rosary. His opinion was if the size was right and if it were maybe wood or some other dark color, then yes, he would wear it to pray on. The point I'm trying to make is that I don't make rosary bracelets just for show or something pretty for women to wear. Although, yes, the pieces I do make are pretty but they aren't just for show, ya know? I make them with the intent that the person wearing it will be able to pray the rosary wherever they are. As was mentioned, discreetly. I think what really got me to thinking more about this was the fact that I've made some for a very lovely and kind nun. And I thought well, what about priests? It just doesn't seem fair to me that women have the opportunity to have a fully functioning rosary bracelet they can wear and pray on and men don't.

Again~thanks for the opinions on this. I really appreciate it. Have a lovely Sunday, everyone.

-- Jackiea (sorry@dontlikespam.com), April 07, 2002.

What is this, pick on John day? The man is entitled to his opinion just like anyone else! You don't have to agree with him, but he is giving his opinion just as Jackiea asked. Why not give your own opinion instead of ripping John's?

Jackiea, if the bracelet gets someone to say 10 more prayers a day, than that would be over 5000 more prayers a year. I like the idea.

God bless.

David

-- David S (asdzxc8176@aol.com), April 07, 2002.

Hey Joan, I'll equate femininity with submissiveness. Well, actually to be exact, I would say that submissiveness is one quality of femininity. Otherwise, if I equate them, I would have to call you a 'submissivist' instead of a 'feminist'. Now that would be downright wrong now, wouldn't it. lol. How do I know this is true? Because you yourself said so in an earlier post... "Patriarchy has so invaded our civilizations, both East and West over the past forty-five hundred years that we have almost blotted out an entire side to Divinity: the Feminine side." Forty-five hundred years and you still haven't managed to overturn the rule of society by men? What seems to be the problem, Joan? You use the word 'invaded', which leads one to believe that the world at one time was ruled by women before men took power. I don't remember hearing of any such dynasty. The world is ruled by men; that's just the way it is, and you aren't going to change it. The reason is because the least common denominator in dispute resolution is warfare, and if women wanted to ultimately wrest power from men they would have to duke it out with them on a field of battle. So I suggest you raise an army, and it would also help to somehow wrest control of the international banking system, because until you do, you won't be able to force people like me to pay attention to a feminist like you, because I will never care about the rantings of feminism. And if you try use some other method such as the courts or trying to 'convince' people through dialog, well then you are asking for power from someone who has the power to grant it... that's not real power. Power belongs to those who take it. Now if taking it to a battlefield sounds absurd, congratulations. It is absurd. Reductio Ad Absurdem is not the best form of argument, but it works well enough to indicate that maybe a few of your premises concerning the nature of the feminine are out of whack. Now as far as the Catholic Church's view of the role of women, from what I understand, it has a woman elevated to the status of the Mother of God and Queen of Heaven and Earth. What more do you want?

-- Emerald (emerald1@cox.net), April 07, 2002.

Jackiea, if the bracelet gets someone to say 10 more prayers a day, than that would be over 5000 more prayers a year. I like the idea. >>>

I loved the way you put that, David! :) That's part of the enjoyment I get from making them. Knowing that there are SO many people out there, praying the rosary~just does my heart good. You know, I've wondered how this whole scandal within the church would affect Catholics. I know that some of the parishes have seen a decrease in the number of people attending but I've been very glad to see a dramatic increase in the number of rosaries and rosary bracelets I make selling each and everyday! I'm sure our Mother and Father are pleased to see all of the people out there praying the rosary. :)

-- Jackiea (sorry@dontlikespam.com), April 07, 2002.

Actually, my math was exagerating some. But if someone does say the 11 prayers on the bracelet, one time a day. This would be 4015 extra prayers a year. If you sell 30 bracelets and the people say the prayers one time a day, than this would be 120,450 extra prayers being said, with the help of your made bracelets in a year. :-)

-- David S (asdzxc8176@aol.com), April 07, 2002.

David wrote:

"But if someone does say the 11 prayers on the bracelet...

Just because a bracelet only has 11 beads, there's no need to get away from the habit of praying 5 decades each day! Swimmers do laps, so can we!

:-)

Mateo

-- (MattElFeo@netscape.net), April 07, 2002.

David, that's ok. Math never has been my strong suit, anyways. :) But yes, it's wonderful to think of all the prayers being said, isn't it?!

Mateo~LOL Very true, my friend. I've had people that tell me, though, that they sometimes forget where they are and need something to help them remember, if they should become distracted or whatever. So, I'll maybe do the Hail Mary beads in all silver, for example, and then the Our Father beads in different colors. That way, they'll remember what color they were on and can start back from there. :) Or I've made some in a wrap style, by request, so the entire rosary can be put on there. That way, they don't have to make "laps". :D

-- Jackiea (sorry@dontlikespam.com), April 07, 2002.

I agree, Matt. So, we add the prayers up for the five decades instead of the one decade, like I said. Now, Jackiea's bracelets have been involved in at least 602,250 prayers being said in a year. Yes, I, do think it is wonderful, Jackiea.

God bless you.

David S

-- David (asdzxc8176@aol.com), April 07, 2002.

Joan, you said,

Although you may personally not be accepting of Homosexuality please do not reference it as such...there is NO SUCH listing in the DSM and Homosexuality is not listed or considered as a "disorder" by the American Psychiatric Association nor the American Psychological Association or the mental health community as a whole. This is where it is important to separate Scientific facts from religious beliefs. It is your religious beliefs that so frame it. Please make that clear or someone may sue you John

Let me correct you a bit. Homosexuality USED to be in the DSM, but it was deleted out in the DSM III. Here's one reason why:

The decision of the APA Board...took place in the context of new sociological data, biological inferences, and de-emphasis of psychoanalytic observations. It also took place in an atmosphere of confrontation. Beginning in 1970, various gay activist groups demonstrated....at APA meetings. At issue was the conceptualization of homosexuality as an illness..." Link

Basically Joan, it was listed as a disorder until enough people afflicted with it complained loud enough to get it removed. Similarly, I'd bet that if you could ***organize*** all the people afflicted with other disorders to go throw oranges at people in professional meetings you could get other things "softened" as well. Science, unlike what we try to believe, doesn't occur in a vacuum, but is subject to social pressures.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), April 08, 2002.

And I think Frank that is what Jesus so depended upon...change not occurring in a vacuum. Seems like Jesus is alive and well in the world today.:-) Joan

-- Joan Storey (godessss@mindspring.com), April 08, 2002.

Jmj

Comments for Frank, David S, and Joan Storey ...

Thanks, Frank, for setting Miss Storey straight. I knew about that gutless APA fold-up job, a few decades ago, so it was nice that you could produce the quotation.

Thanks, David S, for standing up for me, even though I disagreed with your point of view. I will meet you part-way by saying this:
If a modern guy just couldn't resist adopting one thing that I would associate with femininity, then let it be this thing -- a rosary bracelet, if his reason for wearing it is to help him to pray.

And lastly, Miss Storey. How confused you are, poor lady!

You wrote: "John says: 'I come from a generation in which nearly all males would not be caught dead doing/wearing things associated with femininity -- for example, dying hair blonde, wearing makeup, wearing earrings,.... yadda yadda yadda"....

Well, at least I can thank you for letting folks know that I wrote most of those words. On other threads you have plagiarized massive quotations without giving the authors any credit! Here you give me credit ... but then you insert, within quotation marks, some words that I did not write -- namely, "yadda yadda yadda." Please put those outside the quotation marks next time, Miss Storey -- or better yet, please show people respect by not using those three insulting words at all!

You continued: "I would think your generation would also not be caught dead wearing ... long hair! But then you don't list that, why is that?????"

As has been pointed out, long hair has been worn by at least some people of both sexes in all generations. My Savior, the most manly man who ever lived, almost surely had long hair.

You continued: "Although you may personally not be accepting of Homosexuality please do not reference it as [Same Sex Attraction Disorder] ... there is NO SUCH listing in the DSM and Homosexuality is not listed or considered as a 'disorder' by the [two APAs] or the mental health community as a whole. This is where it is important to separate Scientific facts from religious beliefs. It is your religious beliefs that so frame it. Please make that clear or someone may sue you John."

Joan, I know that you consider yourself a mental health professional and that you probably deal with people of low intelligence and all kinds of fears and phobias. Well, you are not going to find people like that at this forum, so you might be more comfortable leaving right now. Specifically, I am not so naive as to be frightened by your statement about a potential lawsuit. (That's hilarious!)

Miss Storey, I couldn't care less if the DSM or the APA documents do not speak of SSAD. As Frank has shown, such things are fallible works emanating from a fickle, uncertain group of people to whom I give very limited respect. By contrast, it is the Church established by Jesus (God himself) that tells me and you -- in a statement that is free from all error or uncertainty -- that a same-sex attraction is indeed a disordered condition of mind and/or body. Obviously, a sane Catholic is going to go with the infallible Church over the fallible scientists. The APAs are merely expressing an opinion -- and giving in to pressure groups in the process. That is a far cry from the "scientific facts" you crowed about. [Oh, excuse me, you actually capitalized the word "Scientific" -- as though it is a "Godde"!]

God bless you.
John

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), April 08, 2002.

John,

NP.

Joan,

One other thing, you said,

This is where it is important to separate Scientific facts from religious beliefs.

The ironic thing about this is that the "scientific fact" you champion flip-flopped from one "fact" to another, whereas the religious belief did not. How is this possible? Did the universe change making something true one day and false the next? Will other FACTS change day to day like 2+2=5?

Since you brought the subject up, maybe you could research what group of peer-reviewed studies were published in the late 60's that PROVED homosexuality was not a disorder (and also show how they DISPROVED the prior studies that said it was. Oh wait a minute, maybe it's just the group's *opinion*??

As a friendly tip, you should watch out for social science research, it often shows the prejudice of the author or current belief. Save calling something a scientific FACT for things that really ARE facts!

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), April 08, 2002.

Ahh Frank I'm afraid you are caught in your own trap. You said: "The ironic thing about this is that the "scientific fact" you champion flip-flopped from one "fact" to another, whereas the religious belief did not. How is this possible? Did the universe change making something true one day and false the next? "

I'm afraid your statement shows a lack of understanding. At one time it was believed that the earth was flat, but as we grew in knowledge we didn't, like most fundamentalists would, stick with an eroneous belief out of fear of change or modernity, out of fear that our faith could not survive. You really don't think that all the answers that humankind presently holds will always prove true do you?

The Catholic Church has learned from it's past, from its horrific and sinful period of suppression and condemnation of heresy of such as Galileo, via the Inquisition. It has claimed there should never be a discrepancy between science and religion. I would think you would be aware of that. Joan

-- Joan Storey (godessss@mindspring.com), April 08, 2002.

Joan,

Ahh Frank I'm afraid you are caught in your own trap

Well, let's see if this turns out to be the case...

At one time it was believed that the earth was flat, but as we grew in knowledge we didn't, like most fundamentalists would, stick with an eroneous belief out of fear of change or modernity, out of fear that our faith could not survive. You really don't think that all the answers that humankind presently holds will always prove true do you

Did the Church ever infallibly state that the Earth was flat? NO. I stick with the church's teachings because they are true. You claimed something was a fact and it wasn't. You have fallen in a trap, but I did not.

The Catholic Church has learned from it's past, from its horrific and sinful period of suppression and condemnation of heresy of such as Galileo, via the Inquisition. It has claimed there should never be a discrepancy between science and religion. I would think you would be aware of that. Joan

There IS never a descrepancy between science and religion if both are true. There will be a discrepancy when one or both are incorrect. Why would you believe otherwise? What discrepancies between science and religion do you believe exist? Here's a nice short article for you on Galileo, Link in which the final statement shows that the magesterium never officially stated that the Earth was the center of the Universe, so that again, if you follow what the magesterium teaches infallibly, you won't be wrong, EVER! This is in marked contrast to your beliefs where you are proven wrong and continue blissfully on without apparently stopping to think about what that means. Yes, of course individuals in the church can be wrong, in fact they are wrong all the time. The difference is that the Holy Spirit guides the church, and when she speaks infallibly, it is true. This is what you have turned your back on when you started in with this "godde" junk.

Oh, one other thing, your champion Galileo was wrong in that he asserted the sun was the center of the universe and didn't move, whereas we now believe it does. What are you trying to do, prove my point for me?

The church wasn't concerned with astronomy btw, which as an ex-nun I'd think you'd be aware of. They were worried about the effect on people's faith--when they found out they weren't physically at the center of things, that might have transfered over into their world view. And that has happened, so that their concerns, if not their astronomy, were correct (not infallibly stated either, btw). As a final point, as far as God is concerned, so far as we know we ARE at the center of the universe, or does your "godde" think some other race of beings is more important than us?

Frank

P.S. you also said, You really don't think that all the answers that humankind presently holds will always prove true do you?

Earlier you said that homosexuality was not a disorder as listed in the DSM. I proved that 2 editions earlier, it WAS. I have asked you to show me where it was PROVEN that it wasn't (or even that it was) and you haven't done so. You must learn to differentiate between FACTS and OPINIONS. The listings in the DSM represent the consensus of opinion, not fact. The current OPINION is that homosexuality is o.k., the revealed truth is that it is not. I can show that your "facts" change with the breeze, yet you believe in them, my facts do NOT change, and thus I am content.

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), April 09, 2002.

One very nice piece of " jewlery " I gave once was a finger ring compressed of ten minute bumps and one extra. This I was told came from Ireland and was standard fair for men in prison. It was a combination of iron and pewter.

-- Jean Bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), April 09, 2002.

I am looking into buying a rosary bracelet for my self-i don not care who would be caught only dead or not dead with it. i was trained in medicine and to see the miraculous medal with the crucifix would help me a lot during the day. In my car i will not take off the rosary i have from Assisi and the ones i have carved from olive trees grown near where Jesus was crucified go in the bos with me. Men do now wnat they want-male blonding, waxing, liposuction-I am not making a statement i want to be reminded of Jesus all the time-I always look at my watch, noe i will be able to say a deacade too, especially if someone is dying near me. Frank

-- Frank J Tufaro, MD (drfranjt@hotmail.com), September 03, 2003.

DO they teach grammar in medical school?

-- jake (jake1REMOVE@pngusa.net), September 03, 2003.

Does they teach you all charm at you all's school there Jake?

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

rod..

..

.

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), September 03, 2003.