What is a true militia?

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I have been going over a few things on different militias in the country and have some questions and thoughts,and was wondering if anybody could help here.

Most of the militias state that they are "To defend the Constitution for Michigan (or the state they live in) the State and the Constitution for these United States of America. To uphold and to defend the Bill of Rights."

But, then they have stated in other articles, "The Constitution of this Republic, and its intent, has been so grossly misrepresented, misinterpreted and wrested that it is scarcely recognizable."

Then I found with most that part of their "mission statement" reads, "It shall be the sworn duty of this Militia to protect, defend, support, uphold and obey the Constitutions of the State _ _ _ _ and the United States of America. Notice is hereby given that violations of either the State or National Constitution, by any alliance, nation, power, state, organization, agency, office, or individual shall be met with a fierce and determined resistance."

Ok, now how can they defend a constitution that they believe is corrupt?

And,how can they say that "violations", "shall be met with a fierce and determined resistance" when it already "has been so grossly misrepresented, misinterpreted and wrested that it is scarcely recognizable." And they haven't met them violations with fierce and determined resistance.

Prior to the U.S. Constitution,the true militias were there to defend family,friends,community,land,etc. in times of hard necessity at a moments notice. In my opinion,most state militias today are nothing but fancy hunt clubs. Most are not true militia,and they might as well have paintball wars. Can anybody correct me if I am wrong in thinking this.

-- TomK(mich) (tjk@cac.net), April 11, 2002


Well Tom, your sitting in the state with the largest militia in America today. I just love them. I mean I love to argue with them. I mean I just cannot stand their egotistical B.S. I do however love their numbers and their firepower and that I can use !

Say a local militia has 25 members and we need to go to say Waco. Usually 12 have to mow their lawn, 6 can't leave the house because their wife is on their butt and 4 are to drunk to drive. I think this is the militia you are seeing and speaking of ?

There are more committed militia ! There are men who act in the best interest of people under seige. They are not so public about who they are or what they do. Sometimes a small group is exposed due to circumstances beyond their control. They than become public fiqures for enlistment and commentary on the working elements of the movement. These become the public fiqures that use the law to whip the counties back into a republic state of existance. First the county than the state. The States independent will topple the Federal Government.

Militia is an often misused name--like a hunting club that you mentioned. However you must count every rifle. It is no secret that I perfer the Posse Comitatus and I am drawn to that affiliation. I do this because they are highly organized, loyal and extremely legally well armed. They make sense and they act in a moments notice !

I am always ask ? How do I join ? You don't--you will be asked to join if the members near you feel that your services are needed. The best way I know of is to show your knowledge of constitutional law at a county supervisors meeting and beat the politicians back using their own laws against them. Believe me, you will be noticed ! And if you are asked ? Consider it a privilege !

-- Joel Rosen (JoelnBecky@webtv.net), April 11, 2002.

Who are the "Posse Comitatus"? I thought that was a law relating to the use of military in civilian matters!

-- john hill (john@cnd.co.nz), April 13, 2002.

John Hill got to:

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/american/adl/paranoia-as- patriotism/posse-comitatus.html

-- TomK(mich) (tjk@cac.net), April 13, 2002.

You can go to this site also:


-- TomK(mich) (tjk@cac.net), April 13, 2002.

Well, I read those- Gee Tom, Thanks for printing the FBI's version of who we are. White supremacists ? does that sound like me ? I don't think so !

There were small elements of truth mixed in there. We mean to let the individual states be the supreme power and the county to be the only power we recognize. There will be NO Federal government allowed !

There are radicals among us. I avoid them and I deal with them in my own time. It is well known in the circuits that if you are a racist than you don't need or want Joel around you. They called Bo Gritz a racist also and that is not true ! These articles are written to demonize people who actually had the guts to fight for YOUR rights.

I wonder if it was like that in 1776 ? What did the headlines read ?

Ben Franklin, well known Rackateer leader and arsonist was indicted today for insurance fraud !

Thomas Jefferson was arrested today and charged with child molestation, contributing to the dilinquency of a minor, and lewd and licivious acts with a minor. Authorities are considering adding additional charges of tax evasion, fraud, sodomy, and having sex with a negro to the ever growing list !

-- Joel Rosen (JoelnBecky@webtv.net), April 13, 2002.

Thanks TomK, the FBI one is apparently too big for my slow modem link and the other fails. I will try again later, I am especially intereted in learning why anyone could think that dismantling a great country would somehow improve it!

-- john hill (john@cnd.co.nz), April 13, 2002.

What great country ? Murderers and rapists go free while people with overdue library books are jailed. We nearly exterminated a people to get our land but Hitler was a savage. The Alphabet agencys are crawling up every orifice you have. Your paying 60% of your income in one tax or another. Great what ?

More like--we are the most despicable peope to ever have walked on this planet. Murderers, liars, and thieves ! If you think that is something to be proud of than I pity you !

-- Joel Rosen (JoelnBecky@webtv.net), April 13, 2002.

Maybe all those things are so Joel, but how will dismantling everything improve things? How would the rapists and child molestors and serial library book criminals be dealt with in your new world?

-- john hill (john@cnd.co.nz), April 13, 2002.

I would start change with judges and lawyers, etc. Also would change penalties for crime. You rob anybody or anything first you get a mandatory 15 yrs in prison and then that is increased depending on type of robbery. Simple robbing of a wallet or purse - Bam! 15 yrs, no if,no buts,no plea bargins. You steal a car - Bam! 15 yrs + 5yrs,no if,ands,or buts. Judges would have to follow to a T! I would want the death sentence nation wide with a max. of 2 appeals, that had to be done in 18 mths time.

-- TomK(mich) (tjk@cac.net), April 13, 2002.

We are not going to dismantle things as a whole but rather shift the power structure. All the "power" will now lie in the county where you reside. You won't have to depend on some drunken, skirt chasing, congressman 3000 miles away to look out for your interests. You can drive 10 miles over to the courthouse and look out for your own business.

There is not much chance of a judge issueing a totally stupid decision when he has to live in your community. When the "powerful" have to deal with you in a close knit circle than you watch that "power" turn to respect. I know this for a fact because every Sunday I sit behind the county judge in church and for 15 minutes before the service starts he explains every decision he made this week to me. I don't even have to ask. This is the power of the Posse.

I cannot speak for every part of this vast country but here in the mountains of Virginia this system works. Virginia does not need or desire to be governed by the central government.

I see you are from New Zealand ? Tell me about your form of Government ? What works ? What doesn't ? Are you locally strong and committed or is your ruling class distant and out of touch to your needs ? You see I'm curious-I haven't heard of any riots in New Zealand, or poverty, or famine, nor terrorist attacks. So your either really good or your press is really controlled. Which is it ?

We can start a new thread or we can converse in regular E-mail. I'm sure more than just myself would be interested in New Zealand. Please John, expand our horizons.

-- Joel Rosen (JoelnBecky@webtv.net), April 13, 2002.

I'm from the state that the posse comitatis orginated in and have spoken to quite a few of these guys since many of them are home boys. On the one hand I'm somewhat sympathetic to the general publicly- stated cause and their list of grievances.

On the other hand they do in fact impress me as being a bunch of racist, bigoted, anti-semites. I recall a discussion I had with one of their "leaders" many years ago, during the laitril hoopla. Several of the "higher ranking" members from around here were involved in that whole thing.

I was asking questions, of a baiting nature and sure nuff, he took the bait and proved himself and the group to be what the rumors had contended---a hate group wrapped in the guise of patriotism, not far removed from the klan and the neo nazi crowd imo.

-- john (natlivent@pcpros.net), April 15, 2002.

Like many good things we attract bad apples. I have spent years speaking against racism but those boys in the northwest have let many klan an ayrians hook up. They believe in a little too much hate. I can only speak for myself and I don't think anyone has ever seen me write anything of a racist nature. Well you have some good elements of a group and some bad elements--so whats so unique about that ? Sounds like every organization n the planet to me.

-- Joel Rosen (JoelnBecky@webtv.net), April 15, 2002.

I understand your point Joel and I didn't mean to specifically imply that ALL such groups leaned that way. However its important to keep in mind that several of the guys I spoke with were in leadership positions and well respected within that crowd and it wouldn't surprise me to learn that it was the prevailing opinion of the rest of the membership. They weren't rabid, in-your-face with those opinions, but when asked or given a "candid" environment they were happy to tell you all about the Jewish conspiracy to take over the world etc.

Sadly its true that these kinda groups do indeed seem to attract that particular variety of "patriot". A buddy of mine formed a "tax investigation" group, essentially challenging the constitutionality of the income tax. Word got out and soon all kindsa "patriots" jumped on the bandwagon including a coupla IRS infiltrators. His particular "schtick" was filing FOIA requests and it finally got on the nerves of the feds and they put the hammer down. 23 armed feds, IRS and ATF raided his place, confiscated all his stuff without warrents and never returned it and ultimately got him four years in the slammer. If he is to be believed (which is questionable) he sez the group got outta hand and went in a direction different that the original intention, tho to be fair, I never heard him with racist remarks and only a coupla digs on the jews.

-- john (natlivent@pcpros.net), April 16, 2002.

Yes, I know John--it is really hard to control them ! You see, when you teach the rise of the third riech than you must study the jews control over the loaning of money. Boy do the less knowlegable jump on this bandwagon. I would rather say that you must attack the class that is monopolizing the money ! Hitler came to power by freeing the money. Today we have Normam Greenspan and the less than knowledgable can still connect the dots. If a Jew controls the money than it is just history to attack the money system. I think we could solve that small problem by firinng Greenspan.

At any rate I have never found a way to argue with those with the ignorant sign on their forhead. We must keep trying and educating the children !

-- Joel Rosen (JoelnBecky@webtv.net), April 17, 2002.

I don't think the anti-semites are isolated to various militia groups. There is a certain percentage of them in a total cross section of our society. Richard Nixon and Billy Graham are two that come to mind right now.

-- Laura (LadybugWrangler@somewhere.com), April 17, 2002.

I have to agree that the court / justice system needs overhauling.

Yesterday in our local news, a confessed child molester plead guilty to molestation of a minor (12 year old girl), and was sentenced to 10 months probation, $10,000 fine. A person sneaking a couple of illegal aliens in tractor trailer rig up north was busted by Border patrol. He faces 200 years (max. sentence), and I forget the fine (but was heftier than molesters)

HUH??? Sounds backwards to me. Getting tired of watching murderers / white collar crime getting slaps on the wrist, while people possessing an ounce of pot getting house confiscated. Drugs are bad, but murder is much worse. Let the punishment fit the crime.

-- j.r. guerra in s. tx. (jrguerra@boultinghousesimpson.com), April 18, 2002.

Subtitle A - General Military Law

311. Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are -

(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia;


(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

Your responsibility was that you...

"provide [yourself] with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch, with a box therein, to contain not less than twenty four cartridges, suited to the bore of his musket or firelock, each cartridge to contain a proper quantity of power and ball; or with a good rifle, knapsack, shot- pouch, and power-horn, twenty balls suited to the bore of his rifle, and a quarter of a power of power; and shall appear so armed, accoutred and provided, when called out to exercise or into service"...that is provided that you are standard infantry and not a dragoon, artillerist or officer. I dont believe that this has ever been directly updated so as they were to accoutrement themselves as standard infantryman of the day I guess that you will have to use an infantryman from our present as your guideline.

Are you ready?

-- William in WI (gnarledmaw@lycos.com), April 19, 2002.

On April 19, 1775, British and American soldiers exchanged fire in the Massachusetts towns of Lexington and Concord. On the night of April 18, the royal governor of Massachusetts, General Thomas Gage, commanded by King George III to suppress the rebellious Americans, had ordered 700 British soldiers, under Lieutenant Colonel Francis Smith and Marine Major John Pitcairn, to seize the colonists' military stores in Concord, some 20 miles west of Boston.

A system of signals and word-of-mouth communication set up by the colonists was effective in forewarning American volunteer militia men of the approach of the British troops. Henry Wadsworth Longfellow's poem "Paul Revere's Ride" tells how a lantern was displayed in the steeple of Christ Church on the night of April 18, 1775 as a signal to Paul Revere and others.

"One if by land, and two if by sea;
And I on the opposite shore will be,
Ready to ride and spread the alarm
Through every Middlesex, village and farm, For the
country folk to be up and to arm.

At Lexington Green, the British were met by 77 American Minute Men led by John Parker. At the North Bridge in Concord, the British were confronted again, this time by 300 to 400 armed colonists, and were forced to march back to Boston with the Americans firing on them all the way. By the end of the day, the colonists were singing "Yankee Doodle" and the American Revolution had begun.

-- William in WI (gnarledmaw@lycos.com), April 19, 2002.

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788

"The militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves, ... all men capable of bearing arms;..."
"Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic", 1788 (either Richard Henry Lee or Melancton Smith)

"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom? Congress shall have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American ... The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the People."
Tench Coxe, 1788.

Heres what happens without one...

"How we burned in the prison camps later thinking: What would things have been like if every police operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? If during periods of mass arrests people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever was at hand? The organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt."
Alexander Solzhenitsyn, Nobel Prize winner and author of The Gulag Archipelago, who spent 11 years in Soviet concentration camps.

-- William in WI (gnarledmaw@lycos.com), April 19, 2002.

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