Hello everyone. I posted a while back and got such good advice and encouragement that I decided to try you out again :-)

What do you all require of your kids at the table? Obviously we require manners, but what about the kinds and quantities of food to be eaten and in what amount of time?

We used to just let them eat what we put before them and if they made a huge fuss about it we put them in their rooms on their bed until we all were finished. Then we started just letting them sit there (if they acted up they got a spanking) until we all were finished and then their food was thrown away and that was it until the next meal. THEN, we started trying to force them to eat everything on their plates.... So far we have lost! Now, I know that we have not been too consistent but that's because I'm not confident in what is proper and should be expected. My kids are 2 and 4 and eat very healthy food. They just say, "I'm not hungry", or they piddle and then scream when we are done and take their plates. I firmly believe in them eating what everyone else is eating with few exceptions. I am not a short order cook and do not intend to be. I just need to know what method to use for a happy dinner table.

What do you all do or expect from your kids in this area?

-- RG in Bama (rebeccagallant@earthlink.net), April 15, 2002

Answers

As I've gotten older, the meal-time squabbles just don't seem worth it to me. I don't like to fuss with the children over what they eat. Fussing at mealtime gives me a stomach-ache, and I'm betting it gives the children one, too. My solution is if they don't like it, they can make a peanut butter sandwich. I, personally, think this solution is okay even for the little guys. I'd rather the meal be pleasant, and sooner or later, surely, the meal will look better than the sandwich option.

-- mary (mlg@mlg.com), April 15, 2002.

I handled my kids differently at age 2 than at age 4. When they were 2 I made them taste everything, if they didn't eat much & said they were done I just put up the plate. If they wanted food later, I took the plate out and microwaved it.

When they were 4, I still made them taste it but if they didn't like it I told them they could fix their own meal. If they said "I can't", I told them they could make a sandwich. They both thought it was a great deal at first, but sandwich making is hard work for a 4 year old, especially when they have to do it without any help, and they soon lost interest and decided they would rather eat what I fixed. It was easier. When they were older still, they decided making sandwiches wasn't hard any more and started to abuse their sandwich-making priviledges, making them a couple of times a week, so I told them a few months ago no more sandwiches, they should eat their dinner.

I ALWAYS made them TASTE the meal I fixed, and I NEVER made more than one dinner or helped them in the kitchen, (I am not a short order cook either!) and BOTH my kids cook for pleasure or to help ME in the kitchen. After all, they have been preparing meals of one sort or another since they were 4. They aren't at all picky eaters, either. One just turned 8 and the other just turned 9.

I realize that this is very unusual but it worked for us. Both my kids eat well, both are polite at the table and well behaved, and mealtimes are peaceful. Neither are spoiled.

-- Terri (hooperterri@prodigy.net), April 15, 2002.

As much as possible I try to make little ones live up to reasonable expectations. I expect kids over 3 to taste everything, and they don't have to eat it, but they aren't offered other options. After 4 they have to sit through a full meal, but before that may leave if they ask nicely to be excused. Two year olds are still pretty little, and don't have a lot of logic to work with. No child is ever permitted to complain about food or be rude about not eating - if you say, "yuck" or anything like that, you go to your room with nothing.

I don't think it is a good idea (IMHO) to force kids to eat everything on their plates - as an adult, I sort of automatically clear my plate, even when I'm eating more than I should, and I think that requiring kids to eat everything they are served teaches them to ignore their own hunger and not be able to decide how much to eat.

I also think it depends on what is expected of the parents - often if parents are picky eaters, kids are too, and it isn't really fair to expect kids to hadle food gracefully if the parents don't always (this is a peeve of mine - if adults don't politely eat everything they are served, why expect kids to? I know so many kids who are picky because there are a thousand things that their parents won't eat and they've heard their parents complaining about food.)

I also allow them *1* food that they don't have to eat - they can have one food preference that I won't comment upon, and will provide them with an alternative - by *1* preference, I mean not, "I don't like fish" but, "I don't like salmon" or "I don't like broccoli." They must specify in advance (if it changes, it can't change the day that the food is served), and I will provide an alternative. Otherwise, they get what I'm serving, can eat it or not, but no other options and no snacking later.

-- Sharon in NY (astyk@brandeis.edu), April 15, 2002.

The Tightwad Gazette has an excellent discussion on this very thing, which people may or may not agree with.

I think part of the problems with eating is that kids are maybe getting too much to start with--getting a cup of something when perhaps a quarter of a cup is more appropriate (serving spoons can hold a lot!).

It is generally "take it or leave it" at our house. If you don't like something, you at least take a token bite. Of course, when old enough, you fix your own food--some of us are not on fixed mealtimes, we're more or less what you'd call "grazers", and that can be difficult if you live with people who like their meals at a certain time.

There are some interesting books out there that talk about how eating habits (load up at meals with no snacks allowed, letting the clock dictate when you can eat instead of natural hunger cues, etc.) can contribute to obesity later on in life.

Maybe if they aren't hungry then, one solution is to have healthy snacks for them--like boiled eggs or raw fruits and veggies. Might be worth a try anyway.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), April 15, 2002.

Journey (2) will pretty much eat anything. Jalynn(3) usually wants something light and a little bit at a time but I have to remember that she will want something else to eat later. She prefers something sweet so I usually give her a bowl of fruit. Marques (6) is starting to get picky. If he wants dessert he has to eat at least two spoonfuls of veggies and one bite of potatoes. He only likes french fries. He likes meat and corn on the cob and lots of fruit. His favorite is mac n cheese. I try to give them something different one night and something familiar the next.

-- Melinda (speciallady104@hotmail.com), April 15, 2002.

When I was growing up, we kids were each allowed 1 food we didn't have to eat. Mine was spinach. (My mother only served slimy spinach out of a can.)

We were never allowed to say Yuck to anything, and my kids weren't either. I always made my kids try different foods, but never made a big issue of it. Seems like the more food battles you start, the more you lose. I've cared for my little granddaughter the last couple years and I've pretty much followed the same rules with her. She has to try stuff but I'm not going to make her eat a huge serving of it, a bite or two will do. I agree with the thought that many parents are putting way too much food on kids plates. We have too many overweight kids as it is, and I also think a huge amount of food is overwhelming to little kids. I prefer to put a dab of a variety of things on their plates. If they at least try everything, they can have seconds of their favorites.

Some days I have trouble getting my granddaughter to eat hardly anything. I don't push it if she's truly not hungry. But I save the plate in the refrig. and if she comes to me later wanting to eat, the only choices she has are the re-heated leftovers or fruits/raw vegies. NOTHING else. She is 3, I allow her to leave the table if she has at least eaten a little and asks politely to be excused. The older she gets, the longer we try to get her to remain at the table. It helps to include them in dinnertime conversation rather than making them sit there quietly just to "be polite". A few minutes can seem like an eternity to an active child with nothing to do.

-- Lenette (kigervixen@nospam.com), April 15, 2002.

This used to come up time and time again in my Peds practice..food wars always are terrible things and the parents will always lose...kids are NOT hungry if they do not want to eat (didn't we discuss this before? LOL)...let the kiddo take as much or as little as they choose and then eat it..if it's a teaspoon, so what? they will NOT starve!!!!!! If they don't eat it, mealtime is over..period..no shouts, no bells, no whistles, and for heavens sake, no more food that night.why should a child eat if mom is going to fix something else later on????? why have a fight every suppertime? relax and know that your child will eat when they are hungry..be careful you aren't letting them fill up in the afternoon, limit snacks, etc.. it is NORMAL for a childs' appetite to decrease when a growth spurt stops..they will pick up later...when parents make mealtime a battlezone, everyone goes to bed upset..it changes nothing and makes food a big issue in the house....

-- lesley (martchas@bellsouth.net), April 15, 2002.

My kids are picky eaters, but like RG, I have no intention of being a short order cook! :-) So, if they don't like what I fix for dinner, they can choose between a peanut butter sandwich - which they can make for themselves, or a bowl of cereal - again, which they can make for themselves. My kids are 12 and 4. My 4 year old is so particular, she will tell you how exactly how she wants her toast in the morning - either folded (spread with butter, then fold in half), or cut in squares, or cut in triangles, or with no top (two pieces of toast lying next to each other instead of on top of one another)! I think it's great that she can express her desires so clearly... there's no beating around the bush with this girl! :-) So, if it's something I can do for them without too much extra fuss (like cutting the toast into squares or triangles) I don't mind a bit. But if one wants scrambled eggs and the other wants fried eggs (which my 4 year old will tell you is 'eggs with the white part hanging out') then I choose, and if they don't like it, they can have cereal! :-) I never make them "clean their plates" because they will regulate their food intake very nicely if we'll just let them.

-- Cheryl in KS (klingonbunny@planetkc.com), April 15, 2002.

One trick I remember when my kids were little was to put their food on a BIG plate so it doesn't look like so much and there is less chance of foods touching each other, heaven forbid.

Thankfully those days are long gone. We have a few rules in our house. Everyone serves their own plate. If you put it there you eat it. If it is a new food you have to have one bite. If you choose not to eat that is your choice but that is it until the morning meal. Ditto if you choose not to have one of the various vegetables. This is the meal as served, you either eat it or not and there are no substitutions. If someone complaines to vigerously, they find themselves fixing the next meal (with my help).

It works here! I sould also say that we do not have chips and pop in the house. The only choices for snackes are popcorn, fruit, or vegies. I don't buy cookies or ice cream, very often, usually for special occasions.

My kids are very healthy and in the past 8 years we have had one time of going to the doctor, for strep. Not bad!

Susan

-- Susan in MN (nanaboo@paulbunyan.net), April 15, 2002.

I've got seven kids of my own and have raised six others. My rule is you must take two bites of everything (and swallow it). I don't force kids to eat anything beyond that. Reasonably good manners are enforced by CONSTANT reminders. Don't insult the cook (Don't forget, I decide what goes into your food). Take all you want, but eat all you take. I'd never send a kid to bed hungry. Been using these rules for thirty-five years (my youngest is 7).

-- Gayle in KY (gayleannesmith@yahoo.com), April 15, 2002.

One more thing-If you're doing the serving-SMALL PORTIONS!

-- Gayle in KY (gayleannesmith@yahoo.com), April 15, 2002.

OK. I have learned some things that I already knew just needed to hear from others. I did read the Tightwad Gazzette and that is when I started enforcing "clean your plate"!

BUT, someone said they would not send the kids to bed hungry. Mine will be if they don't eat their dinner. My parents would also have heart failure to know that I would send them to bed hungry. But, then what would you give them before bed? Doesn't that just reinforce the idea that they can not eat and then get a snack later?

We also only have healthy snacks. Would you offer these if they don't eat their meals?

Thanks.

-- RG in Bama (rebeccagallant@earthlink.net), April 15, 2002.

You know, my kids are happy to have food to eat. They don't have to eat it, but if they don't they wil lnot get anything else until the next meal. Honestly though, with my kids, it is more a matter of keeping them from eating all the food, they really compete because they want to grow bigger!

I do not let food becoma a big control issue. One thing is made for dinner, and only one thing. Rice and stir fry, or spaghetti, or pizza, or soup with bread, but there are no side dishes, I just don't have the time to fill the table up with lots of food that will then be leftovers. If the child doesn't usually finish the food, give them a little tiny portion. If they whine about that, tell them they will get more when it is finished.

Also, try to present a wide variety of foods from an early age. This will help to prevent pickiness. There are kids who will eat nothing but hotdogs and hamburgers, beacause that is what they are used to. My dad always exposed us to lots of veggies and salads, they were a treat. We would literally fight over who got more spinach or lima beans!

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), April 15, 2002.

And, it is hard to remember that not everyone eats 3 meals on the d of the dot. Should you be eating just before bedtime, probably not, but a snack 2-3 hours before (healthy snack) is not too bad. I know a lot of people who "tank up" at each meal, instead of eating small meals throughout the day. Just a thought, especially since little ones' tummies are tiny.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), April 15, 2002.

We don't have many issues with food here either. Usually by the time dinner rolls around they are all so hungry they would eat the plate!!

However that said, we all have little odds and ends we just don't care for. I just cook whatever I want and tell the kids to pick 3... I figure if they eat 3 different things at each meal, it will all balance out in the end. They all love fruit, most vegetables, cheese, milk, any kind of bread. The area with the most dislikes is meat, a few of them just don't like it, and I am not going to force them to eat it or punish them. I feel that as long as I offer a variety of nutritious foods and don't have a lot of junk around they will eat something.

We just don't make much if an issue about it. I have seen kids who just did not like somethng, later try a little bit and decide it was OK, or actually good!! I feel if I had forced them to eat it, they would have never tried it. Healthy, active kids will get hungry and they will eat something.

As far as snacks, we have some in the evenings. Last night we came in from ball practice and they had trail mix, peanut butter sandwiches and milk. For supper we had baked chicken, baked potatoes, corn, dinner rolls, and juice to drink. They all ate everything... My kids are all very healthy, thin, and rarely sick, with lots of energy and they work hard...

I guess I try to make food fun and interesting. It is always something that they look forward to, coming home from school and seeing waht is cooking!!! To me it is one nice thing I can do for them, to come up with healthy, nutritious, interesting foods that everyone can enjoy and like. Supper time here is the best part of the day, and I would never turn it into a battle ground.

-- Melissa in SE Ohio (me@home.net), April 16, 2002.

I'd send a kid to bed hungry, depending on circumstances, mostly attitudes-theirs. Maybe by being just a little uncomfortable, they'll learn some respect.

-- Cindy (S.E.IN) (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), April 16, 2002.

Two of my children are on the too-thin side. My almost sixteen year old cannot fast more than one meal without becoming physically ill. On fast Sunday, he skips breakfast, and is required to eat lunch. No, I would not send a child to bed hungry. That doesn't mean I think they should skip a meal in favor of a snack. But I see no harm in letting a child have some bread or a sandwich at bedtime.

-- mary (mlg@mlg.com), April 16, 2002.

Rg, I just thought of something else that I had read previously. If your kids are not that hungry at dinner time, are they drinking a lot of juice?? I know little kids love juice and as parents we like to give it to them because it is good for them. BUT it really affects their appetites... If they drink a few cups of juice in the afternoon, they probably won't want any supper!!!

-- Melissa in SE Ohio (me@home.net), April 16, 2002.

Rebekah, Your answer sounds a lot like me!! Sometimes I think I am feeding dinosaurs!!!! My kids are very glad to have good food to eat, there are so many people who do without much in this world.

When we were kids we used to fight over fried green tomatoes, and any fruit, as we did not get much. Fruit was prety much a luxury and we were always glad to have it. We had 6 people in our family, and nothing was wasted. My Dad and brothers are all over 6ft 2in and there were never any leftovers to worry about!!! I guess my kids inherited those healthy eating habits, but also my husbands thinner build.

To RG: I hope that some of these hints can help make mealtime a pleasant experience in your house!!!!

-- Melissa in SE Ohio (me@home.net), April 16, 2002.

just throw the food on the floor,, let them fight it out, ,dont have to clean the table that way

-- Stan (sopal@net-pert.com), April 16, 2002.

When I said I wouldn't send a kid to bed hungry, I meant because I lost my temper. HOWEVER, if a kid won't eat, it AIN'T HUNGRY.

-- Gayle in KY (gayleannesmith@yahoo.com), April 16, 2002.

My theory has always been that this sitting down to three squares a day is a relatively modern convention. We have fruit and homemade bread or homemade crackers available for hungry kids. They have specific likes and dislikes, and I don't force them to eat what I KNOW they don't like, but they must try new things, if only just a taste. I also want my kids to learn that you eat when you're hungry, not because it's the thing to do. Food is fuel -- not recreation.

I fill their plates sparingly, and they are welcome to come back for more as many times as they like. I feel I can take this route because I know that they're not filling up on sugary or unhealthy snacks -- the only stuff they get is what I mentioned before, which is just as, if not more, healthy than what I put in front of them at mealtimes.

They must, however, sit quietly while the rest of the family eats. They also must ask to be excused politely, and WAIT for a response (every once in a while I say "no" to see if they're listening!) and they must clear their plate, glass and utensils. Most important of all, they must thank the person who prepared the meal, whether that is myself or someone else. Good manners are simply expected.

Kids have some funny growth spurts. Sometimes they can go a week without being hungry -- just nibbling, then they'll have a growth spurt and you'll think they're never going to stop. I believe that their bodies tell them what and when, so long as you don't allow their judgement to be clouded by finicky-ness and junk food.

-- Tracy (trimmer31@hotmail.com), April 19, 2002.

I don't have kids of my own, but have helped raise my 2 nephews and have made some interesting observations about their eating habits. The older one (12 1/2) is very adventurous when it comes to trying new foods- he will eat almost anything except eggs and he loves any kind of fish and seafood. My sister and I took the boys to a sushi bar last year and the older one ate everything that my sister ordered for the two of them, including octopus, and loved it all(I don't eat raw stuff, so she ordered that). The younger one would only eat chicken, wouldn't even try the sushi. The younger one (10) is a little bit picky, but my theory on that is that his life has been so chaotic that the food he eats is one area in which he can exert control, so I pretty much leave him alone about what he eats. But when I prepare meals I generally cook an entree, or if it is lunchtime I will fix sandwhiches or leftovers, and always have several side dishes plus fresh fruits and veggies on the table. Everyone serves themselves and the only rule is to eat what you take. I have to watch the younger one because his eyes are usually bigger than his stomach. He is always allowed to have seconds, thirds, or however many servings he wants as long as he can finish it. I encourage them to try at least a bite of anything new but do not insist beyond that. I have found that the kids will eat a fairly well balanced diet as long as I provide a variety of healthy food for them to choose from. I do not serve desserts except on special occassions and I do not normally have any junk food in the house. The kids can snack between meals on fruits, veggies, nuts, etc. I find that the amount they eat varies dramatically, probably due to sporadic growth spurts, and I do not worry about them if they don't eat very much on occassion. I have also found that the more I involve them in the preparation of meals the more likely they are to want to try things that they otherwise might not be interested in. Both boys are very well mannered at the table so discipline has not been an issue.

RG, it sounds as if you might be making too much of a big deal out of mealtime. At 2 and 4 kids need to be able to have some control over what they eat. They will not starve!!! The less of an issue you make over their food the more likely they will be to enjoy trying new things as they get older. Mealtime should be pleasant, quality family time, not a battleground of wills. Realize that theri tastes will change

-- Elizabeth (ekfla@aol.com), April 21, 2002.

oops,

Realize that their tastes will change and what they like this week may not be what they liked last week, or next week. A 2 year old is not always going to enjoy foods that an adult enjoys and I don't believe that they should be expected to.

Oddly enough, and I don't recommend this, but my older nephew was very spoiled when he was little. He was the firstborn child in his generation in my family, first grandson, etc, and to boot, had several maiden aunts who absolutely doted on him. If he did not like what was offerred at mealtimes somebody would always fix him something else. This could have gone horribly wrong in the end, but amazingly enough he is the one who always tries everything now, and loves all kinds of different ethnic foods and the culture as well. Imagine the looks I used to get in the grocery store whenever I asked the kids what they wanted for supper that night and got replies like "swordfish; shrimp scampi; sushi; New York Strip; pasta primevera, etc, when other parents could only get their kids to eat mac and cheese or hot dogs.

-- Elizabeth (ekfla@aol.com), April 21, 2002.

I have not read all the responses here, so maybe someone else has already said this.

I sometimes make two things for certain categories and let the children choose. For instance, for the starch, they could have rice OR potatoes; and I might have two different green vegetables. They have to eat at least one spoonful of each category.

I have also put an unfinished plate away for the next meal, making sure that the child did NOT get anything but water in the mean time. This only works if you KNOW where your kids are and who might give them something. I set a time limit for how long they sit there, usually 5-10 minutes after everyone else is finished.

I tend not to spank a child for refusing to eat. They eat when they are hungry, and when they are hungry they eat what I give them.

For little kids especially, I give just a small amount of everything to start with, then they can ask for seconds of what they like best.

The key is that you have to communicate to your children that YOU are in charge of the situation, not them. And whatever you choose to do, stick with it. Don't be going back and forth on what methods you use to get them to eat.

-- Cathy N. (eastern Ontario) (homekeeper86@sympatico.ca), April 21, 2002.

I knew there was something I forgot to add. It is important to keep children eating different things, because as you get older you can develop allergies to things you ate a lot of when younger (wheat, dairy, etc.). Just something to think about.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), April 21, 2002.

Ah, but Cathy, I think that this is where too many parents go wrong when it comes to kids and their diets- the parents turn it into a control issue and let's face it, a 2 or 3-year old can be a pretty formidable opponent when he/she decides not to eat a particular food, or any food at all, for that matter. Someone, maybe Lesley in a previous post on another thread, pointed out that there are very few things that a toddler can exert control over in their life, and food is one of them, which is why it is so often a point of contention. I think the parent should limit their need for control to what is offered at the table, and the child should decide how much he/she wants/needs to eat to satisfy them. Don't offer a lot of between meal snacks and if the child is hungry, and meals include a variety of foods then the child will eat something healthy when he gets hungry enough.

-- Elizabeth (ekfla@aol.com), April 21, 2002.

Elizabeth, I speak as a picky eater. My mother never made me eat anything I didn't like. I grew up thinking that if it looked "bad", I wouldn't eat it. I lived on peanut butter sandwiches, breakfast type foods, and a very few dinner meals. I ate no vegetables except raw carrots and no fruit except apples. I was an embarrassment to my family any time we ate at someone else's house because I refused to eat their food. As a teenager, this did not stop, although by that time I had learned to swallow mouthfuls of veggies whole, without chewing, thus saving myself embarrassment around others. I "ate up" any money I got by spending it all on junk food at a nearby convenience store. I didn't learn to enjoy salad until I went to college. This was not the life I wanted for my children.

My goal with my children is to get them used to the idea that they need to eat what is put in front of them without making a fuss over it. I give them options at times, but once in a while they have to eat what they don't like. I have a son who despises potatoes in any way, shape, or form, but he likes rice. Usually I give him his choice, but now and then I have him take a small serving of potatoes.

My children have been trained in this fashion from the time they started on solid foods. With six children (the youngest is 3), we have had very few battles over food. 99% of the time, our mealtimes are full of pleasant conversation. It is very rare for someone to say, "I don't like this stuff!" Food just isn't an issue, because we have had the rules in place their entire lives.

I know that when we go to someone else's house they will eat whatever they are served, and most of the time they will really enjoy it. They are healthy and strong, and have a balanced diet. They all love salad. They eat just about any vegetable (brussels sprouts being one of their favourites), and consume lots of many different varieties of fruits. When asked what they want most at a grocery store, they want bananas, kiwi, strawberries, yogurt, apples, apple juice, and anything with a Mexican flavour. They do not ask for chips, soda, or sweets.

-- Cathy N. (eastern Ontario) (homekeeper86@sympatico.ca), April 21, 2002.