KEYES: Now it‘s time for “My Outrage of the Day.” We‘ve arranged things so I end up with a little more time today because this is an outrage that has been coming back to me like the taste of a bad meal all day long because of the deeply serious nature of the, I think, almost incredible indifference to decency that is represented here. And I am talking about a statement by an archbishop in Wisconsin, Archbishop Weakland, known as one of the more liberal bishops in the Catholic Church, somebody who had a reputation for having somehow dealt effectively with the challenge of priests who abuse children and rehabilitating them and so forth and so on. And it comes out now that, in 1994, he had told “The Milwaukee Journal,” and I quote here, “What often — what happens so often in those cases,” these cases of priests and the people they abuse, “is that they go on for a few years, and then the boy gets a little older, and the perpetrator loses interest. Then is when the squealing comes in, and you have to deal with it.” When I first read that remark, I could not believe that it had come from a prelate of the Catholic Church or, frankly, anybody else of decent conscience. Does this archbishop fail to appreciate the abusive nature of the relationship between someone, a priest, who represents the moral authority of the Catholic Church in the life of a young person that was entrusted to the company of that priest, precisely because he represents what is supposed to be the grace and authority of the church? That priest then abuses the child and, in that abuse, introduces, instead of the relationship with God, a relationship based upon an evil will of mutual exploitation. He becomes, as it were, for that child and in that child‘s life the substitute for what should have been the God-centered moral universe of that young person. Instead, it becomes centered on this wicked relationship and on an authority figure who has abused his position of power in order to usurp the place that should belong to decent authority and decent principle. If this is not a classic case in which co-dependency will then result and when the more authoritative figure turns away from the younger one, he leaves him in a shattered moral universe, the relationship with God disrupted by the one person who should have represented the integrity of that relationship, and this bishop then has the nerve to imply that the squealing begins, as if somehow or another maybe it would have been better for what, for the abusive relationship to continue? The very thought sickens me, and it ought to be repugnant to every decent person who thinks of it. If this is the kind of thinking that lies behind the indifference to the real and grievous nature of these abuses that has been in evidence in the church, then I thank God that the pope has called them to Rome, and I sincerely hope that some of them will come back without the authority they have so deeply abused.

-- Tony (awalker@teknett.com), April 17, 2002

Answers

Note, this is a transcrip from MSNBC.com

-- Tony (awalker@teknett.com), April 17, 2002.

Tony, I don't think they will come back without the power. An interesting remark on the news was that the Pope feared to aske for resignation of Cardinal Law, for example, because he was concerned about the snowball effect. He was concerned that that would open the door for the call for others to resign. Which if arrogance were not a factor and humility were present, which it is not, domino resignation would be the breath of the holy spirit refreshing the church.

Money and power as in all organizations can often have much too much influence. Celibacy was purposefully created in order that land and money after a priests death would go to the church not his wife.

No matter the good intention, organizations are composed of human being and all human beings have a dark side, whether they wear a skull cap or a pirates cap.

I certainly feel sorry for all the priests who have not been involved in sexual misconduct but are now looked upon with less trusting eyes. And I even feel sorry for the abusers. But none of them are as important as the children or a recognition of the severity of the crime that has been committed. More heinious than the sexual acts is the betrayal. That is the part that has and will do a lifetime of damage to the recipients. And I have yet heard an outcry, a beating of the chest as should be with concern and regret. I have only heard concern for the church itself.

And for the benefit of the uneducated, sexual abuse is often gone unreported, victims and their families try to pretend it never happened, are embarrassed, feel complicit, feel responsible, etc., etc. One day they learn that the effects are only fed by secrecy and if they want to begin the process of healing they most speak out they must confront their abuser. Anyone who puts the onus of abuse on the abused is part and parcel of the abuse itself. Joan

-- Joan Storey (godessss@mindspring.com), April 17, 2002.

I suggest that you go to Fr. Andrew Greelely's website and see if you would accuse him of Catholic bashing as well. He is a catholic priest who loves his church, but speaks his mind on this issue, as well as others. He speaks the truth and if that is catholic bashing in your eyes, so be it. If Dennis is evil for saying these things, what are the hierarchy of the church for allowing them to go on for 40 years? For spending billions of dollars in lawsuits to cover it up. What are they compared to someone like Dennis?

What do you think Jesus would do in this situation? Do you think he would defend the hirearchy or would he take those children in his arms, and love them, support them? I think you know the answer.

Jesus spoke the truth too and he was chased out of many towns for it, He was not always welcome for speaking the truth. When you speak the truth, you stand alone. But I, nor Dennis stand alone, because Jesus knows our hearts and knows from where we speak.

We all know that not "all" priests did these things. We all know that there are good and holy priests, we know that the Catholic Church does many good things for people - Catholic Charities, St. Vincent's DePaul, Mother Teresa's Sisters of Charity, the Fr. Mycal Judge's of the World, etc., etc., etc.....no one is denying that and that is what we are trying to hold on to. I, as a catholic do not want to see my church destroyed because of this.

However, it does not make me an "enemy" of the church because our spiritual leaders have allowed this horrible situation to go on all these years and we are angry about it.

A priest in Pennsylvania was "transferred" to another parish because at mass he told the parishioners they had every right to be angry. See what I mean? Speak the truth about this situation and you are considered an enemy of the church, a heretic. And that has always been the way.

Again, I will say this and then will leave all of you alone. The church is not the victim here... Enough on the subject here.

-- cathy (marlborocat@yahoo.com), April 17, 2002.

Another book written by a very devout Catholic, attended catholic schools from K through graduate school, educated by the Jesuits and at one point in his life thought about becoming a priest himself until he met the women of his dreams...a good Catholic, a good man, a religious man who loves his faith and loves his church.

The book is called, "Lead Us Not Into Temptation" by Jason Berry. He came upon the story (the truth) by accident and tortured himself over whether or not to pursue the story. He was torn between his love for the church and exposing the truth. He exposed the truth. He is not a Catholic basher, but a wounded catholic.

Priests were "hearing confessions, consecrating the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ at mass, performing weddings and baptisms...all while sexually abusing children...that is evil, not Dennis or anyone else who speaks the truth and expresses their true feelings over this situation.

The church has brought this evil scandal upon itself and those responsible for it will have to stand before God one day and answer to Him for it just like you and I will have to stand before God for our sins and we are all "sinners." You probably don't like to hear that either.

-- cathy (marlborocat@yahoo.com), April 17, 2002.

Joan writes:

"It will take time but it has begun. Christ is rising once again."

An interesting statement for an individual who doesn't believe that Christ is the only Son of God.

By the way: Christians aren't waiting for Christ to "rise again." He already did that ~2000 years ago. He's going to come again. So much for teaching religion.

Mateo

-- (MattElFeo@netscape.net), April 17, 2002.

Mateo...I realize you are a stong literalist...I am not. When you read my posts it would be helpful to you if you considered that as in Christ is rising again. Joan

-- Joan Storey (godessss@mindspring.com), April 17, 2002.

Let Peace Begin With Me.......

I apologize if I offended anyone by defending David. If it appeared to you that I was "bashing" my own church/religion I am sorry for that too. Believe, me, I love my church, but get very "emotional" about this particular issue. I did not intend to post any more, but just came across the St. Francis of Assisi Prayer and felt like God was speaking to me.

I just spent some time in prayer and realized that Satan loves to disurb our peace, disturb anything that is good, destroy anything that is good. He thrives on anger and discord. Wherever there is peace, or goodness, He will try to destroy that and He would like nothing better than to destroy the Church where Jesus resides in the tabernacle. What better way to do that, than to make people so angry that they will leave the church. That is what Satan wants, but I realize that we cannot let Him win.

I am glad I decided to take the time to pray because prayer does change things.

This whole issue has triggered some unpleasant and painful memories for me and I am struggling with those issues, so please forgive me for what may have seemed like I was attacking my church. I didn't mean to do that.

Perhaps we should share with David the good things about our church, mainly the Eucharist and what that means.

A Simple Prayer

Lord make me an instrument of your peace Where there is hatred.....let me sow love Where there is injury.....pardon Where there is discord....unity Where there is doubt.....faith Where there is error.....truth Where there is despair.....hope Where there is sadness.....joy Where there is darkness.....light O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek To be consoled.....as to console To be understood as understand To be loved........as to love For It is in giving.....that we receive It is in pardoning, that we are pardoned It is in dying.....that we are born to eternal life....St. Franis

Cathy

-- cathy (marlborocat@yahoo.com), April 17, 2002.

I do stand by my feelings on this issue, which I have a right to feel. However, I do not have the right to offend, or express my feelings in an inappropirate manner. It is not what we say as much as "how" we say it. God Bless and I hope you find it in your hearts to forgive me if I offended any of you. God Bless

-- cathy (marlborocat@yahoo.com), April 17, 2002.

Cathy,

You didn't offend!(except for calling dennis, David). Dennis offends Catholics with his foul mouth. That is why he is banned. There is a right way and a wrong way to talk, about certain issues.

God bless you.

David

-- David (David@excite.com), April 17, 2002.

Mr Moderator I believe this thread has worn itself out with the fools who cannot tell right from wrong anymore. They seem to now support the bashers fully. I cannot support these people who call themselves Catholics and yet condemn others such as Cardinal law with such lack of respect of him and his position. If they think that they are better than the leaders of the Church then why don't they just pack their bags and go somewhere else. I am weary of the slander that is going on here by the few fools who have absolutely no idea of what to be Catholic is about. This idiot Joan needs to stop being so illiterate and respect the Lord face value or just plain shut up. I have had it with her rubbish and total disrespect of Jesus Christ. WE do not need her twisted mind in here.

-- Fred Bishop (fcbishop@globaleyes.net), April 17, 2002.

Dear Cathy Colarusso
--When all is stated factually, not as opinion, your words

''The victims, however, will have to live with the shame, guilt, emotional problems, insecurities, instabilities, and every thing that goes along with abuse, for the rest of their lives. Therapy helps to some extent, but they will "struggle" every day of their lives with feeling good about themselves, with trying to be normal, with trying to fit it, with trying to figure out, "Where do I fit in?" and the list goes on and on and on...depression, moodiness, fear of intimacy..I could fill up a book...'' are definitely wrong. This litany of ''guilt'', etc., is stock lawsuit argument, intended to inflame juries.

You might believe it, and I hope you haven't had to experience it. But I really HAVE. I can tell you it just doesn't work that way. Maybe if it occurs in the confines of the family-- incestuous, or with reglarity, the disasters you're passionately describing could happen. But if you believe this is the natural outcome of pederasty or forcible rape, you're off the mark.

Human beings are more resilient; I know. I was a victim several times as a 4 year-old. Naturally, the memory is disgusting, but not as PAINFUL as you might imagine. Because, the victim doesn't share in any compunction or remorse. There can't be guilt as a result of being mistreated. Anger, for some time, yes.

But Catholics above all in our society are taught from Church and Scripture, that God is Just. He will repair your broken heart; and He loves you without bounds. I knew it all my life; and I wasn't traumatised. I haven't any deep personality quirks, no inhibitions about sex, or about personal honor.

You have listened to the pop psychologists and pseudo-counsellors too closely. It's their living; making all solutions and remedies proceed from their own bag of tricks (I'm not being frivolous).

Believe me, I'm not seeking to exonerate the ones who prey on the young. I hate the very thought of them. But I do know how the human heart copes with deep sorrow. I've been there. The answer to a broken hearted boy or girl's needs is GRACE. You have to pray; and God will give the GRACE. You can overcome ANYTHING, with God's grace, Cathy.

Where have I always been in close touch with the grace of Jesus Christ? Here's the kicker: In His Holy Catholic Church! Nothing corrupts His Church (I don't have to drum that into you-- you know it); not even sacreligious clergymen. They only pollute themselves. Just love the victims; and pray for them. They'll be all right, and we do love them. This world has no better thing to give them except understanding, love and renewed hope. It's called Christian charity.
God bless you, Cathy--

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), April 17, 2002.

Storey,

You must be getting up there in the years. I think your memory is starting to go! You are having trouble rembering what was said, to you, yesterday, and the day before!

Storey said, " They alone will tell you if your topic is valid, if you are evil, in sin, and NOT CATHOLIC....."

You forgot already, Storey, You are excomunicated, from the Catholic Church. They alone, didn't tell you this! The Canon law of the Church, explains this. You were excomunicated for your part, in the abortions of innocent children.

If you see a doctor, and get on some meds soon, it will help slow down your failing memory! OK? And I, won't, have to point this out to you, anymore.

Get on your broom, and fly away!

-- David (David@excite.com), April 17, 2002.

I disagree with you Fred, but enough has been said on this subject matter and God knows more about what goes on behind closed doors than we do. May His justice prevail. Only God knows how this matter should be dealt with, only God knows "all" the facts.

Obviously, this is an issue in the same category as politics...cannot be discussed...no one wins, and lots of enemies are made.

I do know, however, if a "politician" did these things, or some "outside" leadership, people would be up in arms shouting to get rid of him...it is a tough situation because it involves God's priests, not easy.

-- cathy (marlborocat@yahoo.com), April 17, 2002.

Dear Eugene, You are one of the lucky ones who has not been traumatized by sexual abuse...Whether or not I have is certainly no one's business here. I would never discuss such personal issues on a public forum.

Yes, God's grace can heal..but, many victims of sexual abuse, are bitter and have not turned to God. Let's be real here. I am a nurse and know of what I speak...the child does have guilt (unearned guilt) and therapy does help with that, but therapy takes years. I certainly do know what I am talking about. I think people on this board need to get out of denial here. I do not wish to converse with such close-minded individuals. A cardinal sends a letter of recommendation to a parish where a priest (Fr. Shanley) spoke at a man-love conference, condoning man-boy relationsips, abused children, and the cardinal tells the parish, this man is okay..I am not disrespecting the cardinal in any way, but there is a problem here. You can think however you choose, keep your blinders on...may God Bless you all....this is not the forum for me. I will now unsubscribe.

-- cathy (marlborocat@yahoo.com), April 17, 2002.

Cathy, just for the record, My name is David. Dennis is the atheist that is banned, I noticed, that you made that mistake twice.

I also read your post again, and If you don't mind would you explain, what you were talking about, here?

" Speak the truth about this situation, and you are considered a enemey of the Church"

That is wrong, Cathy! Glenn, and I, and everyone else, have spoken the truth, and we are not enemys of the Church.

You then went on, " A Heretic, and it has ALWAYS BEEN THAT WAY"

What are you talking about? It has always been that way?

-- David (David@excite.com), April 17, 2002.

Please unscubscribe my name to this forum. It is not for me. Thank you.

-- cathy (marlborocat@yahoo.com), April 17, 2002.

Cathy--My post never tried to change your mind about the underlying seriousness of this scandal. I only shared what knowledge I have about a normal victim's resilience to the perceived trauma associated with sex abuse.

Neither have I been guilty of denial. I maintain the lawyers and psychological crutch-dealers have misrepresented the truth. If you disagree, I can live with it. I find it significant, as to the depth of your intentions; that you had no comment to make about God's power to heal us, or the incorruptibility of Christ's Church. I guess you think the Church must now slink away and just die? For this I must judge you as superficial and intellectually dishonest. But, with your lost ''subscription'' to our forum, you've avoided facing this. Denial can be in your own heart, Cathy. Where you'd least expect to see it. I have no denial to confess. I've bared my soul to you. Goodby.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), April 17, 2002.

Eugene, I don't think there's any such thing as a "normal" victim. You said she was wrong about the after effects.....how could you possibly know? I can not possibly begin to imagine how a child must feel to be violated and have their trust taken away by a priest. To have it happen "a few times", yes, it would leave a disgusting memory. But imagine if it happened for years. Not days. Not weeks. Not months. Not 1 year. But YEARS. Years of abuse. Never being able to say a word because of the fear. All the fear you can possibly imagine. Fear of shame; guilt; no one believing you; fear of breaking a family apart......All of that would leave not just a disgusting memory but a painful one. The trauma endured leaves a lasting mark, Gene. And pop psychology and lawyers have nothing to do with that. A person may grow up fairly intact mentally and physically but that underlying doubt, fear, shame will always be there. The insecurities. It changes a person, no doubt about it. Especially when it is done by a family member. And to Catholic families, their priest is their family, too. We sometimes tend to think of priests and nuns as being somehow a little bit better than us....perhaps, a little closer to God than us. And you just don't think they would do something like that. But they are human, too. They sin and fail just as the rest of us do.

And as far as the monetary settlements involved...personally speaking, I absolutely would NOT take money from someone that did that to me. Wish to see them prosecuted and put away for their crime? Most definitely. But never would I want their blood money. Not even for therapy.

-- Jackiea (sorry@dontlikespam.com), April 17, 2002.

"And for the benefit of the uneducated, sexual abuse is often gone unreported, victims and their families try to pretend it never happened, are embarrassed, feel complicit, feel responsible, etc., etc."

But it's the parents to blame and it is there responsiblity, isn't it ? Wouldn't you think all this could be prevented if parents remain responsable ? I think I recall this somewhere in the bible.

-- Tony (awalker@teknett.com), April 17, 2002.

Tony, I don't see it that way. Not entirely, anyways. Parents can't be with their children 24/7. It's impossible to see EVERYTHING that our children do. But when all the warning signs are there and it's literally happening right under their very noses? Well, then, yeah. I kinda gotta wonder sometimes.

-- Jackiea (sorry@dontlikespam.com), April 17, 2002.

Dear Jackie:
Let me show you the hysteria I see in your last post. We know the difference, Jackie, between good and evil. Why this ponderous mental anguish:

''But imagine if it happened for years. Not days. Not weeks. Not months. Not 1 year. But YEARS. Years of abuse. Never being able to say a word because of the fear. All the fear you can possibly imagine. Fear of shame; guilt; no one believing you?''

Dear Jackie:

---Let's just say, God has all of us in His loving hands; there's no cause for this kind of alarmism. Yes, some people suffer. But why show such a weak faith?

''Though I should walk in the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; Thy rod and Thy staff they comfort me; Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies! My cup runneth over--''

This power of the Lord is also for the poor victims of injustice, Jackie. Give Him the sovereignty --Just have faith and allow Him to love them. They are in good hands, Dear!

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), April 18, 2002.

"Mateo...I realize you are a stong literalist...I am not. When you read my posts it would be helpful to you if you considered that as in Christ is rising again. Joan"

I am immediately reminded of the SNL Weekend Update sketch from the early days, the ones where Chevy Chase intoned the words, "Jane, you ignorant slut."

In this vomitous post of yours, I declare, "Joan, you ignorant git." It would be helpful if you used proper terminology. Christ rose. He will never need to rise again. I call your attention to the words from the rubrics of the Mass..."Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again." Christ will never rise again; He has no need to do so.

And further to your accusation that Mateo is a literalist, I convict you of continued assumptions. I have never seen Mateo declare himself as such. You accuse this of anyone not in full acceptance of your self-made faith. If those of us falling under your umbrella of literalists is valid, then the proof of our literal judgement is in our literal interpretation of the Catechism, not the Scriptures.

You suggest that you are a woman that was once a Dominican religious. You tell us that you were a religious instructor. You claim to be a Catholic. Can you expect us to believe these things when all the while your words attest to the contrary? I am finding it all quite ludicrous. Joan, I propose two paths for you. The first is to sod off. The second is to sod off. And if these two are unacceptable, then a third option would be to sod off.

-- Melissa (holy_rhodes@earthlink.net), April 18, 2002.

Gene~why the mental anguish? I've been there. The weak faith? You don't have much faith when you go through hell that long. Oh, I know now why it happened and why God didn't stop it. But to a child? ... It's different. I realize this life doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things..it's the after that does. But when you're here living it, it seems like alot. And there are physical and mental repercussions from that sort of abuse. I read you to mean there wasn't. Not big ones, anyways. Perhaps I misread you. I know He'll take care of them.....later. It's their time on Earth that I speak of.

Peace be with you, Gene.

And Melissa? Girl, you crack me up like nobody's business. :) Sod off...still got me gigglin over that one.

-- Jackiea (sorry@dontlikespam.com), April 18, 2002.

Jackiea, I am not sure, with all the heated dialogue, to take your comment about my last post as appreciative or mocking. I hope it is one of appreciation....

-- Melissa (holy_rhodes@earthlink.net), April 18, 2002.

Melissa,

Honestly what comes to mind:

You go girl!!

Thank you for saying what I feel so much better than I could.

cksunshine

-- cksunshine (cklrun@hotmail.com), April 18, 2002.

-- (^@^.^), April 18, 2002.

Well, jackiea, I have always had a big mouth, and an even bigger temper. Luckily, or unfortunately, (you be the judge) I have an ancestral proclivity to rants. One quarter of my blood is Irish, one quarter is Cajun. One day the English and French will level out with their imposed labels of reserve and distance, respectably. If that should happen, I may no longer be witty.

Glad to give you a giggle.

-- Melissa (holy_rhodes@earthlink.net), April 18, 2002.

Sorry, my last post should have been directed to cksunshine. My apologies.

-- Melissa (holy_rhodes@earthlink.net), April 18, 2002.

I'm pretty sure that Jackiea's comment was one of appreciation, but she can verify that.

I'm afraid that I was not blessed with the gift of words (although some would say that I was "blessed" with the gift of gab) so I always think it's great when someone can say so well what I'm thinking/feeling. More power to you!

cksunshine

-- cksunshine (cklrun@hotmail.com), April 18, 2002.

Tony, I don't see it that way. Not entirely, anyways. Parents can't be with their children 24/7. It's impossible to see EVERYTHING that our children do. But when all the warning signs are there and it's literally happening right under their very noses? Well, then, yeah. I kinda gotta wonder sometimes.

-- Jackiea (sorry@dontlikespam.com), April 17, 2002.

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

Yes, but this isn't alway entile true, what the problem here is our morals in society, we are foolish enough to believe that laws protect, but in my opinion, it doesn't it only punish and it's a very false sence of sercurity, remember it is not up to the police to protect you, it's up to you to protect yourself, the police only investagate the crime and apprehand the crimial, what does this mean ? Well it means just because there's a law against it, doesn't make you safe, you shall live as if no law of protection even exist. True that parents can't watch there kids 24/7, but this isn't 24/7 we are talking about, it's 9 or 12 hours a day, plus sleep, so that cuts out the 24/7, a child, must be with it's parents, I don't care what issue is, they must be with them at school and they can't be both working full time jobs. But it is possable to see EVERYTHING if parent will look at EVERYTHING that is going on, only then will your child be safe.

-- Tony (awalker@teknett.com), April 18, 2002.

Melissa,

Thanks for covering for me. I'm with Sunshine--You go girl!

Also, when you replied to Joan's labeling me as a "Literalist," I remembered something Joan told me recently:

"Like so many others Mateo you try to label me, fit me in a pre- conceived box of your making..agnostic, unitarian universalist, etc., etc. I realize that is how your mind organizes but I am sorry you will not find 'one' box that fits me or confines me. That is how we differ."

Joan has labeled me as a fundamentalist and a literalist. Joan has labeled Jesus a Liberal. I don't know how she sees herself as "above" labels.

Enjoy,

Mateo.

-- (MattElFeo@netscape.net), April 18, 2002.

Melissa~you can pretty much take me at face value. If I'm being sarcastic, trust me~you'll know it. :)

I genuinely meant what I said. You crack me up. Not everyone knows about the SNL thing so, it was funny to read. You have quite a way about you, Melissa. I'm sure whichever order you end up in, they will be better for having you.

Again~thanks for the giggle and God bless you.

-- Jackiea (sorry@dontlikespam.com), April 18, 2002.

Melissa and Jackiea,

Wasn't that Dan Aykroyd (rather than Chevy Chase) with Jane Curtin?

I think that they were doing a parody of the real liberal-vs-conservative mini-debate called "Point-Counterpoint" with James Kilpatrick vs Shana Alexander (maybe on "60 Minutes").

Mr. Chee'burgie "No Coke" Pepsi

-- (oldsnllover@here.com), April 19, 2002.

olds, I think you are right. It *was* Dan and not Chevy in that role. Thank you for clarifying that.

On a side note, any of you here planning to watch the ABC docu-drama on Gilda Radner this coming Monday? Roseanna Roseannedanna was always one of my favorite sketches in the 70's.

-- Melissa (holy_rhodes@earthlink.net), April 19, 2002.

Drama, yuck, you mean those soft porn?

-- Tony (awalker@teknett.com), April 19, 2002.

I didn't know it was coming on, actually, Melissa. I don't watch much TV so......But thanks for letting me know! :)

And yes, I loved Roseanna, too. It's a tie between that and the little girl. That was hilarious!!!

On my own side note~I became terrified of sharks after seeing Jaws when I was a kid. I always hated...ran from the room, even!....when they would do that skit back then with the shark. Remember what I'm talking about?

It was so much funnier back then. Gosh, I haven't watched that in the longest! Seems like they're just beating a dead horse, to me.

Just my opinion, of course. ;)

-- Jackiea (sorry@dontlikespam.com), April 20, 2002.

Not a Catholic post, so sorry, but ---

Gilda Radner was the daughter of Lithuanian-American Jews living in Detroit in 1946.
Her most memorable SNL roles may be Emily Litella ("Never mind"), Roseanne Roseannadanna ("It just goes to show ya, it's always somethin'"), Lisa Loopner ("That was so funny I almost forgot to laugh"), and Baba Wawa.
Minor roles during her SNL years (1975-1980) were Bobbi Farber, Candy Slice, Colleen Fernman, Granny, Jane Herkiman, Judy Miller, and Tammy Widette
She also did impressions of Annette Funicello, Claudine Longet, Jackie Onassis, Julie Eisenhower, Lillian Carter, Lucille Ball, Marie Osmond, Marsha Mason, Nadia Comaneci, Patricia Hearst, Patti Caldwell, and Rhonda Weiss.
Married to comic actor Gene Wilder, she died of ovarian cancer at age 43 in 1989.

The Noogie Patrol

-- (land@shark.com), April 20, 2002.

The Noogie Patrol....LOL Oh man, does THAT bring back memories! :)

And the Never mind thing......thanks for that one, too. People look at me funny sometimes when I say that and I couldn't remember where I got it from.

Baba Wawa....I still can't say Barbara Walters because of that. It's always Baba Wawa.

Gilda was the best. :)

-- Jackiea (sorry@dontlikespam.com), April 20, 2002.

That little girl that kept calling for her mom and dad because she was afraid of things in her room? Yeah, that was a good one as well.

-- Melissa (holy_rhodes@earthlink.net), April 20, 2002.

Dana Carvey at Christamas time taking the word SANTA on the chalk board and switching it to SATAN with that little twist to his mouth as the Church Lady. On the floor laughing.

-- Chris Coose (ccoose@maine.rr.com), April 21, 2002.

As a survivor of Catholic education, I also find much mirth when watching Mary Katherine Gallagher sketches...I even went as the character one Halloween. And yes, I did the posing and tripping.

Oddly enough, several people have said that I remind them of Cheri Oteri. As a result, I began imitating her, as well...but I have *never* been as misguided as her Arianna persona. But I nearly wet myself whenever she did her Cass VanRye and overly medicated skits.

-- Melissa (holy_rhodes@earthlink.net), April 21, 2002.

Hi, Marylu

This is one of the threads where we didn't get along when we first met. You were Cathy in this thread(I believe your confirmation name)

You were mean to me, and I was mean to you, but I have shown you NOTHING but respect since we put our past behind us, and you have shown me nothing but respect since then. I realy like you and hope we can stay getting along so well.

Please don't buy into any of Chris Butlers' lies about me. He starts threads calling me a liar and then deletes everything I say proving my innocense. This is unfair of him. I won't back down from him and let him trash my name or any of my friends.

He deserves to be banned more than Gino did for a week.

In Christ our Lord,

David

-- David (David@Excite.com), February 14, 2003.

Hello David,

Leave it to you to bring up the old threads, you do find them, David - and you do remember them all. Quite the memory you have.

I do hope you are well and how is your mom doing?

I don't really know what is going on with you and Chris and don't want to get involved. Why add more wood to a fire that is already burning? This situation saddens me and I hope it can be resolved.

If not, let it go and put it in God's hands.

May God's peace be with you, David. So many people missing from here. It sure has changed.

ml

-- MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), February 14, 2003.

Hello, Marylu

You said:"I don't realy know what is going on with you and Chris and don't wan't to get involved.."

This is one of the threads that you mentioned where we[you and I] didn't get along when we first met. I see you already brought it up, and I wanted to explain how you took it out of context. I have nothing but respect for you and your Mom.(I pray for you both daily and I never forget) But you made it sound like I was in angry(like butler mentioned )in his thread that he has deleted everyone that has spoken there honest opinion that disagrees with butler.

"Why add more wood to a fire that is already burning?"

I don't understand. I topped this thread to show you what you had already brought up about me. See? I was not angry with you(not that it matters) and you were giving your opinion to me.(which you are entiteld to).

I have nothing but respect for you, and you are entitled to your op. But I was defending the holy Catholic Church and you were against the Church at the time. So it is possible that you might be wrong about mentioning when I was wrong when we first met.(maybe we were both wrong?) but it wasn't a anger issue was it?

This is what Butler is saying. That I can't control my temper and this is wrong!

"Why add more wood to a fire that is already burning?"

I don't understand this comment? I will answer if you explain? If I called you a "liar" and started a thread saying this. Would you be mad if every person that spoke in your favor was deleted? And every person that agreed with bishop butler was left posted?[This is what is going on ]

"..there are so many people missing from forum.."

Yes my dear, this is the point I'm trying to make!(Its not like I'm a Mateo or something) Do you understand why these people left?[Do you think John or Gene left because of me standing up to dictators?]

"It sure has changed."

Thank butler and frank for that because they ruined a great thing. [watch]

In Christ,

David

-- David (David@excite.com), February 15, 2003.

Dear David,

I am so sorry that what I said upset you....I never mentioned the details of our past disagreements..I didn't see any reason to do that. I said you and I had a problem, never did I indicate that 'you' were the problem.

Yes, I was angry at the church when I first came onto this forum..and had my reasons for that. But that is all in the past, David and I don't want to discuss it any more. I discussed it in the confessional and left it there.

As far as adding wood to the fire, what I meant by that is not what you think. I don't understand why this dialogue continues to go back and forth and I was hoping that it could be resolved in some way.

David, this is a Christian forum, a Catholic forum, and I would think that people of such strong faith would be able to handle this situation differently. Because we are Catholics doesn't mean that we are not human, and it would be impossible to get along with others all of the time.

There are times when the best thing to do is walk away and let God handle it. God knows your heart, David and He knows Chris's heart..doesn't He? Jesus wants us to pray for our enemies, doesn't He David? Jesus wants us to be peacemakers.

It hurts when people say untrue things about us. But, if you know what is being said about you is untrue, let it go and be at peace because God knows the truth.

"And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus." (Philippians 4:7)

I don't understand why you continue to bring up past threads that may stir up anger or hurt. Yesterday is gone and we cannot change it. Today is a new day with opportunities to start over.

David, did you ever talk to your priest about this situation? How it is upsetting you so much? You say you are not angry, but you are hurt, no? I never said you were an angry person, David..I think my post about you was very nice and sorry if you misunderstood anything I said.

I will pray to St. Michael for this forum. Obviously, Satan is very pleased with all the discord that has taken place. He loves division and discord and anger and hatred. He loves anything that is not of God.

Satan hates the Catholic Church and will do anything to destroy the church, and its people. He doesn't want people on this forum who are going to bring people into the Church, bring people to Jesus. He hates Our Blessed Mother and will do anything to destroy our relationship with her.

I am sure he is delighted that he has won his little game on this forum. He has managed to chase away many faithful people, people knowledgeable in the faith who are willing to share that with others.

The only winner in this situation is Satan, David. He is standing by laughing that evil laugh of his and saying...I got a few more on my side...I just love when I see good Catholics become enemies. I love when I see catholics not at peace...I love discord and division.

You know what never fails to amaze me is this. If we can't solve problems between each other on a forum for pete's sake, how are we ever going to solve our problems with other countries who hate us so much. Like I said, I don't know Chris really. I know you, David and you have always been very kind to me and I appreciate that.

I don't know what is going on and after this post, I am walking away for a while because I do not want to be dragged into someone else's arguments. Apparently things said get misinterpreted, misunderstood and before you know it..everyone is involved.

David, the best advice a priest gave me when I was wronged by another, when I hurting because things were said about me that weren't true is this: Pray for that person and keep on praying for that person until you find peace in your heart and you will....I did, (eventually, not right away) and then, David, you know what happened?

God presented an opportunity for me to make peace with that person (but not until He knew I could truly forgive from my heart) I didn't look for the opportunity - God took care of that.

Let peace begin with me...I will leave you with these words.

I will leave you with these words, David:

"When a man's ways are pleasing to the Lord, he makes even his enemies live at peace with him." (Proverbs 16:7)

Dear St. Michael,

Defend this forum in battle...

-- MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), February 15, 2003.