Father Labarge, Jeffrey, or any Catholic.

We did a thread last December I believe, and Glenn, mentioned, that if a Catholic Priest was told in Confession, that someone was going to shoot him. That the Priest would still have to walk the same way home to the rectory, and put his faith in God! Is this true, in anyone else's opinion? Would it be wrong to take a different way home?

Also, the question was asked, about if someone, told the Catholic Priest in Confession, that the wine was poisened, that the Priest would still have to drink, the blood of Christ. Is this true?

I did say, that I was going to ask a Priest at the Seton Shrine this question. But, I get nervous, sometimes in Confession, and forget to ask! Gene, was, going to have that young Priest over for dinner, and ask him to! Did you ever ask Gene? I forgot, but maybe someone will help get to the bottom now?

God bless you.

David S

-- David (David@excite.com), April 19, 2002

Answers

To the Top

-- David (David@excite.com), April 19, 2002.

Oh, I just nticed your new question. I recall that thread. I had some problems accepting what a few posts stated, as I recall.

The priest has yet to visit with us. He says he needs a ''rain check'', etc., --I hope soon he'll get a chance.

My own grasp of this question was always the practical one. The seal of the confessional had to do strictly with guarding the private confessions of individual penitents. That's all. I never heard of something so extreme as not using a secret learned from confessions to avoid a tragedy, or to affect some subsequent decision. It's not revealing some secret of the seal of confession. It's simply using your head. Heck NO, he can't use a wine that's been poisoned for Mass. That's a no-brainer to me. If a priest ever corrects me, then I'll reconsider; but I'll still have doubts.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), April 19, 2002.

Gene,

I agree with you! But, I couldn't find anything on the internet, about this subject either! I would be curious to read, what the Church teaches about the Seal of Confession.

I, bet, I already know what GT, would say about this. :-)

David

-- David (David@excite.com), April 19, 2002.

Here's a link to that other thread, David S.
The pertinent section is a short way down from the top.
JFG
PS: I played your role in calling up an old thread this time!

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), April 19, 2002.

David S,
I am going to quote what the Code of Canon Law has to say on this subject. I don't mean to imply that it is going to solve the issue, because canon lawyers can spill gallons of ink making commentaries about the meanings of some of the canons. But just to have it "printed" here for anyone to consider ...

Canon 983 --
§1 The sacramental seal is inviolable. Accordingly, it is absolutely wrong for a confessor in any way to betray the penitent, for any reason whatsoever, whether by word or in any other fashion. [Would dumping the poisoned wine or taking a different route "betray the penitent?" Good question. JFG]
§2 An interpreter, if there is one, is also obliged to observe this secret, as are all others who in any way whatever have come to a knowledge of sins from a confession.

Canon 984 --
§1 The confessor is wholly forbidden to use knowledge acquired in confession to the detriment of the penitent, even when all danger of disclosure is excluded. [Would dumping the poisoned wine or taking a different route be a "use ... to the detriment of the penitent"? Good question. JFG]

§2 A person who is in authority may not in any way, for the purpose of external governance, use knowledge about sins which has at any time come to him from the hearing of confession.

God bless you.
John

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), April 19, 2002.

John, I will play your role, than. That is a Phenomenal memory, you have. :-) Thanks, for putting up the Canon law, about the Seal of Confession, and thanks for putting up that old thread. David

-- David (David@excite.com), April 19, 2002.

John's citing of the appropriate Canons is helpful. The Code also points out that a violation of the Seal of confession is aut6omatically an ex-communicatable offense. So its not just words to be parsed. We must take it seriously. The examples are a bit extreme but still valid questions. The wine is an easy one, since as already been suggested it can be disposed of inconspicuously. The other is more problematic since avoiding situations where the penitent might be, could cause others to question: "Why is Father avoiding him?" and therefore hint that something was said in confession. In a more realistic scenario, if John Doe confesses to adultery and I am committed to having dinner at the Doe's, I can not back out nor can I allow anything that I heard in confession to influence or change how I interact with the Doe's. Father Chris W. LaBarge

-- Father Chris LaBarge (marydelfr@starband.net), April 20, 2002.

Jesus told Mary Magdalene to go and sin no more. Your faith has saved you. He did not "avoid" her, he loved her and she became one of his most loyal and true followers. Hopefully, if someone confesses to his/her adultrey, it is because they are truly sorry for it and I do hope that the priest would not want to avoid that person, nor judge that person, but maybe would take the time to "help" that person work on his/her marriage. Just my opinion.

-- mary (mcol21@hotmail.com), April 20, 2002.

You have a good point, Mary,very positive limits are placed on a priest. His intimate observations are allowed ONLY for the benefit of a penitent. Jesus Himself didn't go around telling the world about that poor woman's sin. In fact, her absolution was confidential; between her and God. The sacredness of the confessional is a favor God grants us. If a priest betrayed it, who would want him for a confessor? We see therein the infinite mercy of God. Why would a holy priest compromise God's own mercy toward sinners?

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), April 20, 2002.

People are very judgemental,even though Jesus tells us not to judge.. ("Those without sin may cast the first stone") without knowing all the facts about a person's life, what may lead people to make poor choices in life, or bad judgements, but God looks at the whole picture, doesn't he? God knows the heart of a person, He knows the soul, only God "knows" why people do the things they do and I always say thank God that He is the final judge of our destiny because we would send each other to hell, no stops along the way, once we have used all our "stones" first. Just like the scandal now, my heart goes out to the Cardinals, as unbelievable as that may sound (and, the victims, of course) but I imagine those cardinals must be full of remorse and sadness for what they did, at least I hope they are...but no one is going to believe them, so they will continue to throw their stones until there are no more left. May God have mercy on us all and remember that God sent His only son to sit with the sinners and taxpayers, not the super righteous ones..At times, I think God has a special place in his heart for sinners, I truly think he loves a repentant sinner, don't know why, but I just think He does...Someone once told me to just let God be God...maybe we should all try that..Playing God is a hard job and doesn't work....

-- mary jane (maryjanemoskowitz@msn.com), April 20, 2002.

Mary Jane,( That a pretty name!).

I did ask this question, to learn about the "Seal of Confession". I would ask you, please start your own thread, if you want to change, the orginal thread! :-)

Or maybe, I, can find a old thread for you? What are you interested in, talking about?

God bless.

David

-- David (David@excite.com), April 21, 2002.

Mary Jane, I hope you have been doing well! Sorry, I was slow to catch on! You are a special Lady:-), I know you speak from your heart.

God bless you.

David

-- David (David@excite.com), April 21, 2002.

I am well, David. Thank you. I guess you think I was talking about myself. I was just looking "deeper" into something another poster said here, "Why is Father avoiding him?" and therefore hint that something was said in confession. In a more realistic scenario, if John Doe confesses to adultery and I am committed to having dinner at the Doe's, I can not back out nor can I allow anything that I heard in confession to influence or change how I interact with the Doe's. Father Chris W. LaBarge"

I would think it takes a lot of courage and a very troubled conscience to confess grievious sins. You say you get nervous going into confession sometimes. Can you imagine what it must be like for someone to confess a grievious sin and then deal with the possibility of a being ignored once you did. Father said a priest cannot ignore that person, although it could be very uncomfortable for the preist to face someone he knows confessing such a sin as adultrey. If I confessed such a sin and then was ignored by the priest afterwards, I would feel so devastated. Another subject matter entirely and I will start by own thread on this. Sorry to have interrupted your chain of thought, David, or your thread. I do tend to go on and look deeper into things. One question can lead to so many answers and so many other ideas. You just never know where a question can lead, David. The answers can take you down so many other paths. May God Bless you and keep you under his wing. Peace Be with you, David.

-- maryjane (maryjanemoskowitz@msn.com), April 21, 2002.

Also, David, I am new at this message board. I came upon it by accident while looking up catholic sites. I have to feel my way around and get used to how it all works and who people are. Please be patient with the "new kid on the block." Thank you, David.

-- mary jane (maryjanemoskowitz@msn.com), April 21, 2002.

Hi, Mary Jane.

You're right, and I was wrong. I have no right to try and control where the thread will go.

I read your comment about Cardinal's throwng stones, until there is no more stones to throw. And I was trying to "Nip something in the bud". But, you are correct, I, have no idea, how your mind works!

God bless you, Mary Jane.(New kid on the block) :-)

David

-- David (David@excite.com), April 21, 2002.

Welcome, Mary Jane.
There's always room here for one more faithful Catholic -- and I think I see that you are one.
Please take your time and poke around the forum, looking at our archives of many hundreds of old threads going back to January, 1998. Get to know the people here by reading recent threads, etc..
God bless you. John

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), April 21, 2002.

David, I didn't say the Cardinals were throwing stones. I said the people were throwing stones at the Cardinals. Of course, you dont' know how my mind works. How could you possibly know how a person's mind works, someone you don't know, a total stranger on the internet. My mind runs very deep. As for stone throwing, Jesus said, "Those without sin may cast the first stone." I'm sure those throwing stones at the Cardinals re: the current scandal, are not without sin themselves. Let's not got there. I do not expect you or anyone else to know how my mind works, but that's okay - I know how my mind works and if I can encourage others to open their minds and think, is there anything wrong with that David? I love to think, analyze and try to figure things out, I like to get different perspectives on issues. I am in good company, David, because people did not know how Jesus' mind worked either. I am not, by any means putting myself on the same level as Jesus, Heaven forbid...I am just saying that Jesus loved to make people "think." His parables are quite deep and require lots of thinking. Jesus did not have a "rigid" mind, David, nor do I. As for the threads, 'Let your hearts not be troubled' over something so trivial as threads on a message board. There are bigger and more important things to concern ourselves with in this world..We are at war, our church is in a crisis, and there is conflict in the Middle East (of all places, where Jesus was born)..those are major concerns. I am not concerned at all about threads on a message board and am willing to be open to other people's opinions, although different from mine. We must always be willing to listen to what other people have to say, whether we agree with it or not. Tolerance is a virtue, patience with others is also a virtue. I do not believe in "My Way or the Highway" kind of thinking. Sounds to me like people who come here and have a different view are not welcome. Perhaps there is a way to convert others to true catholicism. Pray that the Holy Spirit touches the minds and hearts of all who come here. Peace be with you.

-- maryjane (mjmoskowitz@msn.com), April 21, 2002.

Ok, Maryjane. I am sorry, for whatever, you are mad at me for! I don't want any problems with you. Why are you more angrier with me now, than your last post to me?

I said, I was wrong, and you were right! I was very nice to you!!

If you are going to push me, than lets be fair, Maryjane! We get a lot of people like you on this forum! Have you ever been on this Catholic forum before, with a different name? I like to start with the basics and work up!

David

-- David (David@excite.com), April 21, 2002.

MaryJane said, " Just like the current scandal now, my heart goes out to the Cardinals, as unbeleivable as that may sound(and the victims of course), but I imagine those Cardinals must be full of remorse and sadness for what they did, at least I hope they are... But no one is going to believe them, so they will continus to throw their stones until their are no more left".

In a later post, " MaryJane said, " I didn't say the Cardinals were throwing stones".

You are correct Maryjane, you didn't say who was throwing stones, but you also were very unclear in your post! I think it could of been taken either way, in all fairness!

Maryjane, said, " You are right, You don't know how my mind works".

We'll we both agree on that, Maryjane! I said it before, and I will say it again! I don't know how your mind works!

And you don't know how my mind works Maryjane, so, please be more specific in your comments, and I won't take them the wrong way.

David

-- David (David@excite.com), April 21, 2002.

I am not mad at you David and I don't know why you think that. Did I sound angry to you? Not at all.

I will try to be more specific and 'less' wordy in my future posts.

Have a good day, Daivd and God Bless.

-- mj (maryjanemoskowitz@msn.com), April 22, 2002.