Secession in 2002greenspun.com : LUSENET : Freedom! self reliance : One Thread
If a group of states or even one state wanted out and on their own what would the chance be of it happening and succeeding today?
I based this question on the natural fact that governments can and should come and go, as deemed appropriate by the people, and as our founding documents make clear. It’s the people who matter, not governments.
Never in history has bigger government meant more secure citizens,in fact it has always been the opposite. Few today seem to understand what the founders understood – that individual citizens, armed and ready, are the only way to ensure both freedom and domestic security. The more our federal government attempts to provide security, the less of both freedom and security we'll have. And we’ve already lost alot of freedom since 9/11.
-- TomK(mich) (email@example.com), April 21, 2002
I believe the answer to your question was settled in 1999 when the block four ( WA, OR, ID, and MT ) were told that military force would be used on them, even if their citizens voted to be their own republic. You can vote your way in but you'll have to fight your way out !!
-- Joel Rosen (JoelnBecky@webtv.net), April 21, 2002.
Joel, I must have been deep asleep then because I don't remember hearing anything about that. And I have relatives in Oregon. Any web sites related to it?
-- TomK(mich) (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 21, 2002.
I'll have to check--I just don't remember. I know that Wa and Or kind of sat on the sidelines and Idaho took the threat. It was their legislature that voted to leave the U.S. and Montana sided with them. WA and Or said they would join if the others were allowed to go.
-- Joel Rosen (JoelnBecky@webtv.net), April 21, 2002.
I have sent a message for literture on the events-hopefully a website. If the Great and Powerful Oz ( Bo Gritz) responds to me in less than a day or so than I'll post it. I believe it was a congressman named Keyes that led the legal battle. It was Gritz and Trotman that were ready to fight it out to the end. Unfortunately, it never made it to a vote. They decided they did not have the firepower necessary to engage the military.
-- Joel Rosen (JoelnBecky@webtv.net), April 22, 2002.
Thanks Joel, I await with baited breath.
-- TomK(mich) (email@example.com), April 22, 2002.
I thought I smelled something. Are those nightcrawlers or fatheads?
-- William in WI (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 22, 2002.
I believe that much of the topic of Pat Buchanan's book, Death of the West, has to do with the breakup of America into what he believes will be 10 countries. All you have to do is look at the dissatisfaction of the people in the West, the rise of the Latino influence in the Southwest, and the yearning to be free that is still simmering in the South to have no trouble believing it will happen. And California...well, the rest of us may end up voting them out!!! LOL As for it happening in the year 2002, maybe so...maybe a little longer off, but all nations and civilizations eventually die.
-- Green (email@example.com), April 23, 2002.
No luck with hearing from Idaho. I did a search on MSN and used "Idaho Secession"-it mentioned Keyes and a rally from that year but it was vaque. If I get anything Tom --I'll forward it to you. You are not very hard to find ! LOL
-- Joel Rosen (JoelnBecky@webtv.net), April 25, 2002.
We could only hope that California would join with Washington and Oregon in secession. Throw in New York and Chicago and the little man might actually have a chance at voting time. Personally I believe that should a state or states decide to leave the US, it would be the civil war all over again. This time there would be bigger and better weapons on the side of the Union, because our tax dollars have been paying for them to build an unreal arsenal while our stupidity has allowed them to disarm us at the same time.
Little bit Farm
-- Little bit Farm (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 25, 2002.
LB, I hope I am not responsible for your bad attitude about Oregon and Washington. California, well...
Did y'all know that southern Oregon and northern California actually did try to secede from the rest of you folks, way back in 1941.December 7 kind of took the wind out of "our" sails...
The issue was that our two areas felt unrepresented by the Willamette valley in Oregon and hte Huge metropolitan areas of calif. We're still pretty rural here.
We still call this area the "state of Jefferson". Even our public radio station is Jefferson Public Radio (www.jeffnet.org)
If you guys want us out of your country, I'm afraid you'll have to "secede us", though, at this point. We're too fat and sassy now.
-- joj (email@example.com), April 25, 2002.
Check this web site and get some answers. The sucessionist movement is alive and well. http://www.geocities.com/spiritof1861/Spirit-of-1861.html
-- Steve Chumbley (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 08, 2002.
I think that California has the best chance in leaving the US and surviving. California already has its own millitary force, as well as they are the only producers of stealth bombers in the world. It is also the fifth largest economy in the world, beating france, and it has a reason to secede, as it subsidizes the govenment 8 billion dollars a year including disaster relief.
-- Alexander Ruiz (email@example.com), February 18, 2003.
Anyone for some fiction reading? Google up "Ecotopia" by Ernest Callenbach. If you have an old "Whole Earth Catalog", you can find a review.
-- Zen Clown (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 18, 2003.
The US could break up into simply three regions: west, middle and east. The idle loudmouths in the rest of the world who spout "anti- american" rhetoric would have a harder time figuring out who to "hate", and all three regions would have super strong economies. Barring that, california should just go it alone. We could make ourselves untouchable by legalizing every psychoactive substance known to mankind. If you're stupid enough to get hooked on any of that white, powderized junk, you probobly should get yourself out of the genepool, anyway. Washington will never figure it out. Tip one for the libertarians! - A Californian.
-- Jin Molnar (email@example.com), March 16, 2003.