Hello all.

Thank you for your responses on wether Monty Python was sac relidge.

However... is taking a lighter from a chapel in order to smoke sac relidge. THIS IS DOING IT WITHOUT ASKING BY THE WAY. I am in a boarding school, and this sometimes happens in the chapels we have.

Dominic

P.S. Please dont respond to If monty python is sac relidge on THIS thread, there is a seperate thred I have done if you want to answer that, entitled....is Monty Python sac relidge.

Thanx

-- Dominic (domngel@hotmail.com), April 23, 2002

Answers

Hi Dominic,

Your question:

"taking a lighter from a chapel in order to smoke sac relidge [sacrilege]"

It improper and impious (sacrilegious) to smoke in a chapel.

Stealing a lighter is not just sacrilegious, it is also a sin according to the ten commandments.

Further, based on scientific data, we can view smoking as a sin in that we are hurting our bodies (gifts from God) when we smoke. This is consistent with the cultural antipathy towards smoking as an ignorant and damaging act.

What is your opinion?

In Christ,

Mateo

-- (MattElFeo@netscape.net), April 23, 2002.

Mateo, did you know that Pope St. Pius X was supposedly a chain smoker?

-- Christina (introibo2000@yahoo.com), April 23, 2002.

Cristina writes:

"Mateo, did you know that Pope St. Pius X was supposedly a chain smoker?"

I did not know. Cristina, when did society become aware that smoking had a scientific connection to cancer? Knowledge and intent are important when determining the sinfulness of any act.

In Christ,

Mateo

-- (MattElFeo@netscape.net), April 23, 2002.

Know what, I think he means to ask if taking the lighter, since it was specifically meant to light the candles in the church, and lighting a smoke with it a sacrilege, based on the purpose of the lighter, and the fact that it would be used for something else generally considered not-so-good, such as smoking. I don't think he means smoking in the chapel, and I don't think he means hanging on to the lighter (theft) put perhaps going outside, lighting up and putting it back.

No that would not be a sacrilege.

-- Emerald (emerald1@cox.net), April 23, 2002.

I've never had a puff of a cigarrette, but I have to say that calling it inherently sinful might be an error.

From the This Rock Catholic FAQ:

"The Catholic Church itself teaches that the intentional, unnecessary injuring of one's body is a sin against the Fifth Commandment. Now that medical science has shown beyond question the detriment smoking cigarettes causes to the body, many argue persuasively the people who choose to smoke (distinguishing them from those already addicted to the habit and who are unable to quit) are deliberately harming their body for no good reason and are sinning.

While this may be true in the case of smoking, it's not true in the case of tea, coffee, and wine, unless those are used to excess. Most people can drink wine regularly and in moderation and never incur any health problems as a result. (Wine even can benefit one's health, as the ancients knew: "No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments" [1 Tim. 5:23].)"

Circumstances, circumstances!

-- Jeffrey Zimmerman (jeffreyz@seminarianthoughts.com), April 23, 2002.

So I can't smoke a celebratory cigar on New Year's eve like I have in the past 3 years?

And no, I don't smoke otherwise. :-D

-- Susan B. (little_moonboot@yahoo.com), April 23, 2002.

Nicking anything, be it from a church or anywhere else, is a sin. So of course, you could view it as an error in every form.

-- Melissa (holy_rhodes@earthlink.net), April 23, 2002.

THANK YOU ALL

YES -- Emerald (emerald1@cox.net),

YOU ARE RIGHT...I DID MEAN JUST TAKING THE LIGHTER..SMOKING..THEN PUTTING IT BACK

ANY ONE WANNA ANSWER AGAIN NOW THEY KNOW WHAT I MEANT???

YOURS IN CHRIST

DOMINIC

-- Dominic (domngel@hotmail.com), April 24, 2002.

So all you did was use a drop of butane without asking. No sin, the amount is too trivial. You didn't ask to breathe their air molecules either. If I take a post-it-note at work for personal reasons....I was told not to worry about such things, good advice. Probably scrupulosity.

-- Mike H (michael.hitzelberger@vscc.cc.tn.us), April 24, 2002.

Dominic,

I don't think your use of the lighter is a sin, but OTOH if someone saw you borrowing it and removing it from the church, they might *accuse* you of stealing it which would not be worth it at all! My advice would be go to your local liquor store or bar and *ask for a pack of matches!* Then you'd have your very own and wouldn't have to worry about sin.

Frank

P.S. I'd also recommend you quit smoking, but then you didn't ask....

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), April 24, 2002.

Jmj

Before I make my main point, I want to preface it, lest I be misunderstood. I do not recommend that anyone smoke. On the contrary, I think it would be better for folks to avoid smoking, for a few reasons. (I quit 14 years ago, after having smoked for about 20 years.) But I am not a crusader about it, and I never give smokers a hard time. Why not? In part, because smoking is not intrinsically evil (i.e., evil).

Yes, I noticed that at least one person above said that smoking is a sin, but that is not what the Catholic Church teaches, as a careful reading of the following Catechism passage shows:
"2290. The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others' safety on the road, at sea, or in the air."

Thus there can be a legitimate "use" of tobacco, but we must avoid "abuse" of it.

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), April 25, 2002.

Uh, that was supposed to be ...
In part, because smoking is not intrinsically evil (i.e., always sinful).

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), April 25, 2002.

John,

You wrote:

"Yes, I noticed that at least one person above said that smoking is a sin, but that is not what the Catholic Church teaches..."

Assuming that you're refering to me, thanks for the correction!

Mateo

-- (MattElFeo@netscape.net), April 26, 2002.

You're welcome, Mateo. I honestly didn't know that it was you. I just read the whole thread from the top and, in passing, made a mental note of the fact that someone had linked smoking with sin. Then I checked the CCC.
JFG

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), April 27, 2002.

The recent research from Oxford university on smoking, depression and genetic variants accords with my numerous attempts at smoking- cessation. It could explain why I went through an internal 'hell' when I forced myself to stop for 5 months. This gene seems to cause abnormally low amounts of serotonin to reach the brain. Smoking opens the serotonin tap, thus normalising the feelings of those with this genetic inheritance. Rather astonishingly, no subsitute has yet been found which provides the same antidepressant effect as smoking, but research continues. I do hope, for the sake of all smokers in this genetic category, that they find an effective medication soon. I am striving for the Minimum number of ciggies which keep me sane and have been averaging 25 a day. Still too high, but a beginning. Should you ever hear of a medication, even still in trial form, I should be glad to hear. That was to my GP - perhaps say a prayer for people like me and the poor fat people who also have a genetic problem in which the brain thinks it's still hungry, God Bless, Anthony

-- Anthony Buckley (Buckley@sw20.freeserve.co.uk), April 04, 2004.

A-ha! The genetic predisposition argument. Well then. Don't we all have a genetic predisposition to seek sexual relief? How far can you take that argument my friend. In my eyes, its all mere justification.

God never makes the requirement without providing the means. Will power, discretionary judgement, prayer. Try them out. You never know what will come, but I guarantee it will be for the Good.

P.S. Aside from some terribly scandalous skits/movies, I have to admit laughing until I cried at some things I saw on Monty Python years ago. These considered separately from the bad, were good wholesome fun, especially for prep-school boys. And we smoked then too.

-- Pat Delaney (pat@patdelaney.net), April 06, 2004.

i say bah humbug to the genetic arguement. please, name the study which conclusive found a genetic condition with symptoms ONLY treatable by smoking...

BUT if you have low seratonin levels, i suggest you try something other than smoking, because nicotine and tar dont provide seratonin. Try what most doctors recommend: chocolate and a balanced diet.

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), April 06, 2004.

The research was done by Cancer Research UK, abstracted from a study of 20,000 cases. Their website is Cancer Research UK . Articles were written about this genetic problem, eg: By John von Radowitz 18 June 2003 …A study involving more than 20,000 people has suggested that particular genes can influence personality traits linked to unhealthy behaviour. Cancer Research UK scientists at Oxford University pooled data from 46 separate studies looking at the link between human behaviour and inheritance. The research focused on genes that control chemicals used to transmit signals between brain cells. The findings were published in the journal Molecular Psychiatry…. The 5HTT-LPR variant appears to reduce levels of the serotonin transporter molecule, in turn influencing levels of serotonin activity. Serotonin helps to control emotions such as anxiety and depression.

If you tap "Dopamine & Smoking" into your search engine, you will find all the research: It explains why many smoking-cessation departments no longer attempt to treat, for example, those smokers who suffer some depressions and schizophrenia. Schizophrenia is regarded as caused by a gene (and 90% of sufferers smoke!). My brother-in-law is a Jesuit and professor who, whilst a non-smoker himself, regrets the ban on smoking in his university Common Room because another 'nervy' J who smokes is now excluded & unable to join them there.

Willpower does not overcome genetically-created Down's Syndrome - I hope you wouldn't shake someone born that way and say, "snap out of it - use your Willpower and you'll be normal!" Would you say to the schizophrenic, "throw away your pills - Just Pray!", even at the risk that they then murder someone? Genetic variants Do exist - PLEASE Read the research. YOU may criticise & ostracise those born with genetic flaws. That is not what Christ did: He Healed the man born blind.

"Judge not that ye shall not be judged".

God Bless, Anthony

-- Anthony Buckley (Buckley@sw20.freeserve.co.uk), April 06, 2004.

Anthony, Stop judging yourself bud!

For one thing, I evaluate that type of study on a regular basis in my ordinary work. That study is merely sifting data. Although it points out a possibility of a genetic link, it does not establish it.

But c'mon, be for real here. We are talking about a smoking habit here and not psychoaffective disorder. Please don't muddy the water on this thread pronouncing pious platitudes.

As Monty Python would say, "I ______ in your general direction."

-- Pat Delaney (pat@patdelaney.net), April 07, 2004.

Rudeness and blind prejudice are Not logical arguments, so I shan't write again. Please keep an eye on forthcoming research and maybe you'll think diffrently - I leave you with coverage by another reporter: http://www.wellcome.ac.uk/en/genome/genesandbody/hg07n006.html

17/6/03. By CRUK The large-scale study, involving over 20 000 people, provides the strongest evidence yet that particular human genes can influence behaviour. It is being hailed as an important advance in understanding why some of us continue to ignore health warnings over tobacco and alcohol or find it particularly difficult to give up our bad habits.

Scientists from the Cancer Research UK General Practice Research Group at the University of Oxford combined and re-analysed data from 46 separate studies on the link between inheritance and behaviour.

The study suggests that there is a genetic basis to certain kinds of personality trait, which may be important in influencing whether people take up habits like smoking or whether they can subsequently give them up Their research focused on key genes that control chemical signalling in the brain. Different versions of these genes may affect the balance of signalling molecules and in turn help to shape individual personalities. Researchers found that one particular genetic variant - a version of the human serotonin transporter gene (5HTT-LPR) - was strongly associated with anxious personalities, of the kind that find social interaction stressful and may take refuge in substance abuse. …. The 5HTT-LPR variant appears to reduce levels of the serotonin transporter molecule, in turn influencing levels of serotonin activity. This is an important chemical signalling molecule and controls emotions such as anxiety and depression. Links Adapted from a news release by Cancer Research UK

-- Anthony Buckley (Buckley@sw20.freeserve.co.uk), April 07, 2004.