Can I breed my one year old Angus? Is it too soon? Our steer seems interested in her, but doesn't have the stuff...lol

-- julie (jbritt@ceva.net), April 25, 2002

Answers

We used to breed our yearling heifers in June or July of their yearling year ... but did make sure they were bred to a polled bull (naturally hornless, like an Angus) and a bull that was light framed and bodied ... less chance of calving problems. Jersey would probably be good if you want to go dairy.

Definitely don't use any of the really big beef breeds, Charolais, Limousin, etc. as that will just about guarantee calving problems with a 2 year old heifer.

-- SFM in KY (sportpony@yahoo.com), April 25, 2002.

I have to disagree with SFM. The bull we use on our first calf heifers is a Charolais. He isn't a hard calving bull, and we have used him on Angus cross heifers without trouble. Within all breeds of cattle are low weight calvers and hard calving bulls. Breed her to a bull with accurate EPDs and you shouldn't have any trouble.

-- J (jjdenton@st-tel.net), April 25, 2002.

Comparing EPD's across breeds or even out of the data base is s a waste of time. Size is all that matters in the heifer. Choose a bull with a small head and narrow front and you'll be OK provided the heifer has the size to carry a calf. I'd hope she was at least 800 pounds and gaining, at breeding. Remember you'll have to feed for both the heifer and growing calf this winter but that shouldn't be a big problem.

-- Ross (amulet@istar.ca), April 25, 2002.

Ignorance is bliss isn't it Ross.

-- J (jjdenton@st-tel.net), April 25, 2002.

Meaning?? An accurate EPD is only accurate within the data base of animals being indexed, it's somewhat portable to animals in the same breed and even less applicable to animals of a different breed. A charlois bull's EPD is meaningless to an Angus cow.

-- Ross (amulet@istar.ca), April 25, 2002.

I'd wait until 15 months before breeding her, unless she's really large and growthy. When the calf really starts growing in the second trimester and beyond, if that heifer isn't in really good size and shape her own growth is going to come screeching to a stop and you'll never get the full growth potential out of her. You may not have calving problems, but you won't have a good sized cow, either. On the other hand, if she tapes to 750-800 pounds now, and you don't mind a smaller animal, go ahead and breed her. Personally, I'd wait. A year old heifer is the human equivilent of a young teen.

-- Jennifer L. (Northern NYS) (jlance@nospammail.com), April 25, 2002.

Ross, I understand what you are saying and yes EPDs are only accurate within that bull's specific breed however EPDs are a useful tool in picking out a bull that will be used to breed cows of a different breed. A bull with a small head and narrow front will not necessarily produce a low birthweight calf. There is more to it than that and what is small to you may not be small to me. The bull we use on our first calf heifers has a fat short head and is double muscled yet he produces 70-85 lb. calves. His birthweight EPD is low and even though he is a purebred and our heifers are crossbred, his EPD was a useful tool in our decision to choose him.

-- J (jjdenton@st-tel.net), April 25, 2002.

The Canadian Sheep Federation tried to bring in a national data base for all sheep of different breeds and use the same MTI's and reporting methods to calculate EPD's. These would have been useable cross breed and cross farm. Unfortunantly the whole thing fell through. Remember there's a lot to an EPD just to use it on farm, never mind going off farm to a different herd or a different breed. All EPDs will have a score 0-1 for reliability based on # of proginy reporting. Young bulls will have low scores because of low data available, older bulls will have more offspring in the sire refrence and higher scores. Sure there have been efforts to make the various sire references and EPD's and by using a conversion table you can adjust a Charlois EPD into another breed with some simple math. It requires a giant leap of faith that the original MTI's focused on the same traits now doesn't it? Conversion chart Still using a bull with a desireable EPD for calving ease will only mean the calf will (should) have and easier time calving not it's mother. Small head, narrow front is more likely to mean a calf with a small head narrow front to birth. Julie could get a vet out to do some pelvic measurements too.

-- Ross (amulet@istar.ca), April 25, 2002.

What do you base your bull/semen purchases on if not EPDs? What do you tell the cattlemen that pay thousands of dollars for a bull based on his EPDs?

-- J (jjdenton@st-tel.net), April 25, 2002.

Within the breed and particularly if they are all on the same sire reference data base EPD's make a lot of sense. So do on farm EPD calculations in a closed herd. That might be where EPD's shine the brightest in making that farm money. Your right EPD calculations are worth money, when they are used correctly. On cross bred cows I'd buy on conformation mostly, the EPDs will be interesting but not the deciding factor, particularly if the cross breds are not even close to the bull. An on farm EPD (without being compared to other farm's data) is useless off farm (to sell a bull) in my opinion. The data used to calculate the EPD might be true on that farm and apply to the cows in that herd, but without other farm's data to compare it to it's a limited result. Assuming the farm hasn't got 1000's of head!!! The prices paid or charged are not just based on EPD's either, reputation, past performance, show results, auction results, are a few factors too. The top dollar bulls are indexed against it's contemporaries, thousands of them, so if Joe down the road wants to show you his on farm EPD's as equal to or higher than the top bull remember how many each were compared to. One is #1 out of 1000's the other is #1 out of dozens (10's?) What do I tell them? Buyer beware remember EPD's are worth money.

-- Ross (amulet@istar.ca), April 25, 2002.

Cows are usualy bred in their second year to avoid problems. Even if she manages to avaid problems with calving this year she will never reach her growth potential (even a cow bred at two will be a little stunted). This may affect her ability to calve larger calves for the rest of her life.

-- Erika (misserika129@hotmail.com), April 26, 2002.