O.K...........I am getting really hot now!!!!! You know, I have pretty much tryed to stay out of the dialog about CS moving etc. etc. and who did what to whom ad nauseam that has been going on all over the place. I DID try and communicate with Stan, since he was spaming all three of my mail boxes. So, there are all sorts of new forums now and if you click on the wrong thread you end up at one started by someone called Countryside II. How the heck can they do that??? And just how the heck is that suppose to be trying to help?????? I am just a homesteader wanting to communicate with other homesteaders. Now I am afraid to go anywhere but Jay's and Phil's that isn't passworded. Sheesh!!!!!

-- Anonymous, May 15, 2002

Answers

I agree that it's gotten out of hand. Chuck started the whole kidnapping thing with his "Countryside has Moved" forum, and I gave him an earful about it last night.

I think a good plan would be to just keep our heads down and stick with the forums we know are safe until the trolls get bored and go elsewhere. Hopefully someday it will be safe for someone to start a son of Countryside forum on Lusenet.

-- Anonymous, May 15, 2002

Chuck even kidnaps you when you click on the countryside has moved forum in the public listing.

Since we have all lived through this, lets try something. Lets go back in time, before the tantrums, before the offshoots, to when we first came to the forums and show what we valued of them then.

I joined CS in July 2000 after building a 75 mhz , 14.4 connect bare bones and asked my first questions about gardens, because my then wife and I were interested in getting away from the rat race , even though Y2k was a self sufficiency bust. I was impressed that CS forum so completly discussed issues for 5 or 6 days. Then a few children started having tantrums and the magazine started pushing for more sales and income. Then offshoots started and new people started flooding in after the magazine made sure that the forum and magazine was on all the search engines.

When the forum got out of hand and the revenue increases made, adios to the forum and back to the paper publication and other advancement techniques. Folks on the forums have always overlooked the fact that the family that publishes Countryside can't help but be wealthy after all the years of success and address issues with that in mind.

People and times change. When I first came to this I had dreams of CS style "simplicity", yet I found myself divorced and retired , living comfortably off my investments and severence package. Not my dream neccesarily, but not the rat race either. Now I see the forums slowing down also, now that Countryside isn't using them for marketing and revenue enhancement.

I don't think Stan, Joel, Mitch and the host of others started the problems, that was caused by Countryside magazine for trying to control free thought for their own financial gains. How many posts did anyone see from the Belangers, that didn't serve purpose for the magazine first and foremost? Steves workshop posts were run by us for beta evaluation quite often before an article was written. I used the forum while writing my submissions , as did others, for research.

They probably thought that if we drifted to "non homesteading topics" we weren't functioning as their "think tank" for content research.

The tantrums always got worse when deletions and directions back to narrow thought occurred. Eventually, as all feuds, the original catalyst was forgotten and the original instigators retreated. Kinda reminds me of the book "Needful Things" by Stephan King.

Just my thoughts. Please don't flame me for free thought. I feel used and violated as many others, but accept it as a minor unpleasantness of life that shrinks when compared to the advancements I have created from the same source.

-- Anonymous, May 15, 2002

It is so very frustrating, Diane, to be "transported" somewhere that you have no interest in going!! It happened to me several times! But maybe some good will come of all this. Maybe we will go back to "simpler times". Ideally, like Sherri said, there will be a "son of Countryside" forum. I did send an R.S.V.P. to Chuck. Since I just don't "do" confrontation, I was very civil and thanked him for the invite and told him that I'd already been there checking it out, BUT I wasn't planning on registering. I told him that I wanted to be sure that the archives would be available to me...whether or not I was registered!! He emailed me back almost immediately and said they would be...in a few weeks. I hope I can believe him. He was quite nice and said he hoped to make the site more user friendly to us Webtvers. I really do prefer the set-up here on Lusenet, though!!!! Guess all we can do for now is to just "chill out" and see what happens :-)! Look on the bright side...we've got BTS!!!

-- Anonymous, May 15, 2002

Interesting theory jay.......you are probably very right. I honestly don't give a darn right now. Just want to hang out with other homesteaders and maybe learn a few new things. I really don't have any axe to grind with anyone anymore...........life is far to short and transient to carry grudges, gossip and point fingers. The way I see it there is a little of everything in us all and I am really trying to nurture that which is more on the positive side in myself. Sometimes it sure is hard though!!!

-- Anonymous, May 15, 2002

Diane, really, I want to know about 'All Things Final Fantasy'! HA! That kills me. What is with all the posting of new forums? Sheesh!

-- Anonymous, May 15, 2002

Anne...if you get really bored, scroll down through All Things Final Fantasy...then back up...then back down...etc.!! Do this really fast! It's quite a "trip".

-- Anonymous, May 15, 2002

Well Mr Jay, you certainly are an interesting fella. Never cease to surprise me! Very beautiful and thoughtful post. I do have a few questions though, iffen you don't mind.

1)Do you actually know for a fact that the Belangers are wealthy? I'm not doubting you, just wonderin if you have some inside info.

2)How do you see the forums as having enhanced them financially?

3)"I don't think Stan, Joel, Mitch and the host of others started the problems, that was caused by Countryside magazine for trying to control free thought for their own financial gains. " I agree that people do NOT like to be told to shut up; free speech is very precious to us in this country. (Guess we all are learning to let angry people blow their stacks when they feel the need, and remember their rage has nothin to do with us really, even when directly aimed!). Do you agree that there could have been an element of the Belangers just being sick of all the controversy and nastiness, if for no other reason than people were constantly contacting them with complaints? I don't see they had much interest in the forum, like you said, they never really contributed. It would have been much more community-friendly if they had been strong voices there. It was more like they considered it a necesary evil!

Snoopy minds want to know, ;)

-- Anonymous, May 15, 2002

EM,

Figure the circulation of the magazine. I recall Ken saying last year it sold about 120,000 issues per printing. A dollar per issue profit would equal $780,000 per year and they have other pubs also. I would venture to say their lives are a hell of a lot better than when they started, wouldn't you? They may or may not be millionaires, but odds are they arn't "middle class" either.

2) I wrote a couple pieces for contribution and used the forums and m I utilized the computer and vermicompost threads that I began to assist me in doing my presentation for publication. There have been others, who have used the forums as a research tool. I also saw a couple points that we discussed in depth on the forum quoted practically word for word in the magazine. The forums are perfectly suited to be u used as a think tank. We all try something and share our successes. The information on the boards then becomes a reference source. Why do you think people consider the archives so valuable?

3) Your Damn right they got tired of being contacted and bad advertising by disgruntled subscribers. Common sense would tell you that. Their running a business and dont need this piddlin' BS.

The situation still remains, a bunch of cyber debaters discussing homesteading has profitable potentials for the magazine (remember when greenbeanman went undercover as Notforprint to avoid being published). Value and moral activists hold no value from a business viewpoint and can detract from that business by pestering from subscribers.

Of course, I am very grateful for these forums and even the turmoils of the last year. One reason I always tried to remain outside the arguements is that these forums gave me the opportunity to achieve a letter grade higher in my last psych course by giving me a good basis for my term paper titled "real life emotion manifestations in the pseudo-environment of cyberspace".

Fun and educational, thats what our forums are all about. They always function the best when left to their own device :>)

-- Anonymous, May 16, 2002

I never really got into the whole forum battles thing. If a post or topic were inflammatory I did not post. When things got dull I stopped going in so often. I think I started going onto the CS forum in the Autumn of 2000. I was looking for CS online and found the webpage and thus found the forum and, briefly ,Heaven. I was like Jay, actually (scared yet Jay?), looking for garden and homestead info. We had our home in the country for about 4 years at that point and the kids were getting bigger so I was starting to push for livestock. it was through CS that I met a local homesteader named Terri, that I adore and our kids are close in age so we've become fast friends and support one another's choices in lifestyle. Plus, she's right smart too and explains things to me so's I can get my brain around it. :o) All in all I got ALOT out of CS before it got so very busy and somewhat impersonal. I got you guys didn't I? Oh wait..that was by pissing of the CF board..hee hee hee . I still say it wasn't on purpose, Polly knows! I got my emailed invite to the new forum of Chuck's and actually was thinking it was thoughtful for him to take the time to email everyone about the move. It was a polite and concise email and I may go check out the forum one o' these days. As for the Belanger's tax bracket....I am sure a lot of copies of those issues don't get sold on the newstands (while they were on newstands anyhow)so thats a loss the publisher takes. Paying salaries, taxes, publication costs...that all takes a hefty bite out of that 3/4 million a year guess-timated income. They have it set up pretty good though because how many contributers to the magazine get paid for their letters (a large percentage of the magazine)? i would have truly enjoyed if JD or someone had been active in the forum but oh well, c'est la vie est La Vie Est Belle! so don't sweat the small stuff. Love and kisses,

Alison

-- Anonymous, May 16, 2002

Alison,

Countryside was taken off the newsstands last year. That was when it was mentioned about circulation increases and numbers. Don't get me wrong, I have absolutely no ill feelings toward the magazine or the publishers, only respect and gratitude. I only mentioned these possibilities as an observation from a product marketing view in an attempt to clear some the "smoke" away which has become so blinding in the last six months.

Your right, I was scared during Y2K as all the rest, actually more scared, I work in the CIS and Computer & Electronics Technologies field and saw some of the smartest engineers bumping around like Gilligan and the Professor working on the land mine :>)

-- Anonymous, May 16, 2002

One reason I always tried to remain outside the arguements is that these forums gave me the opportunity to achieve a letter grade higher in my last psych course by giving me a good basis for my term paper titled "real life emotion manifestations in the pseudo-environment of cyberspace".

What? WHAT?!?!? I feel so . . . so . . . USED! ;-P And here I thought you were just being wise! When all along, we were just bugs under your microscope! :-D Best not to admit that anywhere else, I would think . . . someone might come hunting for you. Eek!

-- Anonymous, May 16, 2002

Joy,

I was a "bug" too :>). How the forum tantrums could compare to street brawls and the draw of this media to our emotions was what I used as my report model. Maybe people DO have sex in cyberspace, but thats next years assignment :>)

I just hope these sites always remain educational tools for us.

-- Anonymous, May 16, 2002