First time developing 120 HP5+ problems

greenspun.com : LUSENET : B&W Photo - Film & Processing : One Thread

Tried developing a fresh roll of 120 HP5+ (rated around 200) with fresh Arista chemicals. Film loaded in a brand new changing bag. Negatives had strange random areas of slightly sepia-colored dark shadowy stains on them - mostly in the center areas of the film strip along several frames. The stained areas have soft boundaries and variable density. The areas also showed up in some areas at the clear end of the roll. Other than that the negatives look OK - nice exposure/grain/contrast (all 12 shots identical woman standing in front of a house). The manufacturer text on the film edges looks crisp and nice. I processed on spirals in a hand-agitated tank. Arista developer 1:9 at 72 degrees agitate 10 sec every 30 sec for recommended times. Water stop - 4 quick changes of water. Arista fix 1:9 2 minutes agitate 10 sec every 30 sec. 5 minute water wash. Arista Universal Hypo Wash 5 minutes. 5 minute water wash. 1 minute dunk in distilled water with Edwal LFN. Hang to dry. I actually cut the roll into 3 pieces on 3 separate spools and processed one spool at recommended time of 6.5 min, one at 30% less develop time (4.5 min), one roll with 30% more develop time (8.5 min) just to experiment. Chemicals were brand new, one-shot use for each spiral. Stains appear on all 3 trials. Any thoughts on what I might have done wrong? Thanks.

-- Bill Akstens (bill.akstens@trw.com), May 28, 2002

Answers

> Arista fix 1:9 2 minutes agitate 10 sec every 30 sec

I'm guessing this is a standard ammonium thiosulfate rapid fix; rapid fix is usually diluted 1:3 or 1:4 for film and a short fix time. I don't believe ammonium thiosulfate fix can be concentrated enough to get the same working strength at 1:9 or so.

So I suspect that your film wasn't fixed enough. Check the Arista docs to be sure, but I'll bet you'll need a stronger working solution for a two-minute fix or a longer fix time for the 1:9 dilution.

Also I'd suggest giving continuous agitation in the fixer.

One more thing: how to check fix time....

Take the film leader that you cut off, wet it in water a couple of minutes, then swish it around in fixer, timing how long it takes to become clear. Fix for three times the clearing time, giving continuous agitation.

-- John Hicks (jhicks31@bellsouth.net), May 28, 2002.


John, I routinely fix film with a rapid fix (Ilford Hypam or Universal Fixer) diluted 1:9. You have to increase the fixing time (I use 3 times clearing time as a standard and discard the fix before the initial clearing time doubles), but you can use it "one-shot" this way, which is great with pyro developers and a water stop which allows the alkaline developer to be carried over into the fix more than with an acid stop. I've communicated with David Carper at Ilford about the feasibility of this and had my practice confirmed. Also, my residual silver tests on the film fixed this way are A-OK. One just needs to make sure that capacities are not exceeded and that enough stock solution is present to fix the amount of film at hand (with a generous "fudge factor" of course.

Bill, although your fixing times at 1:9 seem a bit short to me (although I'm not familiar with the Arista chemicals), it would seem to me that the problem lies with the film itself. I at first thought of contact between loops of film on the reels prevented total fixation, but unless you made the same loading mistake three times (which is unlikely, but not beyond the realm of possibility). If refixing does not clear up the spots, a film flaw seems one reasonable explanation. you have other rolls from the same batch, you could develop one unesposed roll to see if the same flaws were there. If not, expose one roll under the enlarger to a low density and develop it to see if the flaws are present. If both come out clean, start looking to your equipment and technique.

Hope this helps a bit. ;^D)

-- Doremus Scudder (ScudderLandreth@compuserve.com), May 28, 2002.


> diluted 1:9. You have to increase the fixing time

Yes I know that'll work; that's why I feel the two-minute fix time with minimal agitation is the culprit. That the stains are mostly in the center also lead me to think that agitation was insufficient.

-- John Hicks (jhicks31@bellsouth.net), May 28, 2002.


I agree that it's almost certainly going to be underfixing, especially given the colour of the stains.
I use Ilford rapid fixer diluted 1:9, as a one-shot fixer for T-max film. But I extend the fixing time to 6 minutes @ 68 F.
I did a few tests before using this dilute rapid-fixer technique, and most films are barely cleared after 2 minutes.
The very short times given in the instructions for fixer these days are marginal anyway, IMHO.

-- Pete Andrews (p.l.andrews@bham.ac.uk), May 29, 2002.

Fixing process is sensitive to temperature and agitation. I give most films continual agitation for at least 5 min at 20C or slightly above in rapid fixer containing 100-120g/l of ammonium thiosulfate plus some sulfite and pH buffering agents, roughly comparable to Ilford Multigrade Fixer 1+3 to 1+4. In a fixer like Ilford Multigrade Fixer it's very hard to overfix.

-- Ryuji Suzuki (rsuzuki@rs.cncdsl.com), May 29, 2002.


This is the original poster again... Thanks for the great responses. The problem has been solved by re-fixing the negatives. They are now clear. In the future I plan to fix with Arista 1:9 for 5 minutes with continuous agitation for at least the first minute or two. I'm surprised the Arista instructions claim fixing in just 1-2 minutes. Thanks again for all your help.

-- Bill Akstens (bill.akstens@trw.com), May 29, 2002.

Moderation questions? read the FAQ