Let us speak of compassion:

-- Jean Bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), May 28, 2002

Answers

how strange... none of the male patriarchs around here have posted on this topic.

-- Courtenay (csisherwood@hotmail.com), May 28, 2002.

Looks like you spoke too soon, Courtenay. Well, here's at least one male patriarch who appreciates Jean's thought. Compassion...what a wonderful idea. Justice, stone-cold justice! And compassion, soft compassion. Haha, have a nice day ladies and thanks again Jean!

-- Matthew (magnificentextravaganza@yahoo.com), May 29, 2002.

Hi Courtenay,

I actually did a search on "Compassion" in the Bible, and ran across this passage:

Hebrews 10:34 - "For you had compassion on the prisoners, and you joyfully accepted the plundering of your property, since you knew that you yourselves had a better possession and an abiding one."

This Biblical view of compassion is an interesting contrast to Jean's support for a story he brought up around a month ago. Here's a piece of his post:

"In NYC never published a priest had been "crucified" but not let to die for his planned thieving of thousands of dollars from a poor working parish.

This is justice indeed for he was found by the police and survived. He was not speared in the side but rather left hung on cross of wood with knives through his wrists."

Jean's "compassion" has no problem with this sadistic vigilanteism (in this case against an act that hadn't even been committed!), yet it doesn't seem to be terribly consistent with the above quote from Hebrews.

Originally, I didn't want to post this, because I thought it a bit confrontational... :-)

I also thought that the end of the story of the "Prodigal Son" was an interesting show of compassion:

Luke 15:18-24 - "I will arise and go to my father, and I will say to him, "Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you; I am no longer worthy to be called your son; treat me as one of your hired servants."' And he arose and came to his father. But while he was yet at a distance, his father saw him and had compassion, and ran and embraced him and kissed him. And the son said to him, 'Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you; I am no longer worthy to be called your son.' But the father said to his servants, 'Bring quickly the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet; and bring the fatted calf and kill it, and let us eat and make merry; for this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to make merry."

Even though this child initially left his father and deserved no mercy, his father showed him mercy and compassion. Even more interesting, the son who stood by his father's side quickly condemned his brother for his sinful life, claiming that the father shouldn't show mercy. The father corrected this son's jealousy of his father's mercy, saying, "It was fitting to make merry and be glad, for this your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found.'"

Jean, shouldn't we be compassionate and merciful toward all sinners, or would you be like the jealous brother?

In Christ,

Mateo

-- (MattElFeo@netscape.net), May 29, 2002.

Matthew Im actually a male myself! I quickly just dredged up a few gems of compassion from our resident lover boy, to fill the void. The Gospel according to Gene...

On child abuse victims…”When you say: ''I still say the children will live with the scars forever,'' let me say to you-- No, they won't be scarred forever-- That is just the psycho-babble…... But save the maudlin over-reaction for those boys who get into crack addiction, crime and habitual sin. They're the ones we are rightly worried for, not the altar boy who was betrayed. He will survive.”

“Jean has made his own sin public. No one sees it except me? No one cares; he's ''wonderful''??? How come?” oh yes "great one", we can see the truth now

“I believe in shaking up a soul who is intent on going to hell for his/her sins.-” Nothing like violence and anger to make someone see the truth

“His immortal soul isn't half dead. But yours is croaking right now, Tom.”- More love from the master

“If we address him with a lenient manner, he'll abuse it.”- To right, off with his head

“I don't move on,” (my personal favourite!)

"Your sound advice I DO accept. To mind our own repentence; and not to judge too harshly what the ignorant say about our faith." Hmmmm really?

more comments to Jean: “I'm satisfied in this much at least. That when I'm disagreeing with something you believe, that's the sure sign I am in God's grace.”

On dobbing in rotten priests “Brother Filii--? He'll be ruined. Is that what you really would like to do?” What can you say to that?

“To hell with the laity!”

On unconstructive arguments:'' Pay attention please, to the serve-and- volley of this match. It gets even better, sometimes.”

And a final classic...…“I'm just against rushes to judgment. God is the real Judge, isn't He?”

Plenty more where they came from, dig in and enjoy!

-- Courtenay (csisherwood@hotmail.com), May 29, 2002.

Thanks Mateo Im finishing work... so Ive got to go but will read your post which was posted while I did my bit of stirring. Thanks

-- Courtenay (csisherwood@hotmail.com), May 29, 2002.

Courtney:,br> Tell me what I said wrong. I'm a big guy; I can take it. Is a matter-of-fact attitude better than a touchy-feely attitude? I was abused myself as a child. It wasn't my downfall. I survived and I now realise my soul was always under God's protection.

Does it offend me to see many other young boys molested? Yes.

I'm on their side! I want justice done on their behalf. But-- You underestimate the power of the human soul. With God's grace, our souls can overcome all the disgrace, all the sorrow and humiliation-- any trial which God (in His infinite Wisdom) permits should be our misfortune.

We have to pray; that God never allow us to fall into these trials. But to make the whole thing just a banal flight into self-pity! That's not a Christian attitude! In our Church's history there have been many saints who underwent martyrdom and God preserved them for Himself. --We don't know what it feels like to be used as a torch-- a living, burning torch for some party Nero was throwing on a whim. --Or to be eaten by wild animals in front of the Roman spectators.

You equate an abuse victim with the fate worse than death. It isn't as you think it is. But it's still a crime and a pity. We must pray for the recovery of those kids. But don't go into hysterics!

Who said I was lacking compassion? I'm suggesting we act like thinking adults. Not slobbering idiots.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), May 29, 2002.

Gene my only "problem" with you is how you treat others, in paticular Jean. I dont understand your clear "hatred" of him. Is there some personal aminosity or history between you two that goes beyond what I may have read in the last few weeks? Why the childish like banter from you whenever he posts, always negative and nasty, you know the romance novel lines etc etc?

You say you are a big man,why not offer a peace olive instead of a stick and try and sort out your differnces or is that not possible/desirable? I know you feel as though you are merely carrying out your "obligation" I just dont think its the way to go.

To me Jean is a brother in Christ first and any differences in doctrine second. I would have thought the Church has enough enimies on the outside... Whatever guess thats casue I dont know much doctrine!

Yours and Mateos posts really opened my eyes when I first arrived at this forum, please read your wordas at this thread they truely moved actually inspired me and I mean that, I was touched by your faith. For those looking for inspiration please read some of the responses to my questions they were great.

tp://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=008zds

In Christ Courtenay

-- Courtenay (csisherwood@hotmail.com), May 29, 2002.

Mateo - May I ask what story you refer to please. If it was the Mary Magdelene story that was about humility on the part of Christ.

-- Jean Bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), May 29, 2002.

missing the htt here it is

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=008zds

-- Courtenay (csisherwood@hotmail.com), May 29, 2002.

Thanks Mateo for asking me that question. I say let God sort them out. When a person is fully aware of his/her actions in harming the dignity self respect humanity of another then that person has walked away from God.

In many cases the heart knows the truth but the law is blind or blinded.

-- Jean Bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), May 29, 2002.

Eugene - you sadly just don't get it.

-- Jean Bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), May 29, 2002.

Thanks I finanly got around to reading Mateo, the story of the father and son I have heard many times before in mass and a timely reminder- thankyou. Interestingly I find myself drawn to Luke more than anything else in my little blue book at the moment. I dont know why at all but I enjoy Luke the most, is this wrong?! Should you have preferences for the word of God!? Is some of the testament thought of as more accurate or important?

-- Courtenay (csisherwood@hotmail.com), May 29, 2002.

Compassion is 'suffering with another."

Empathy is identifying and understanding the suffering of another.

Tolerance - the capacity for or practice of recognizing and respecting the opinions, practices, or behavior of others....

This forum lacks all three at times. I am tolerant of others having a different faith, or lack of faith, but am not tolerant of anyone who wants to eliminate God from our Society. MaryLu :)

-- MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), May 29, 2002.

Courtnay

Jean is mixing up Catholic theology with other theologies being promoted by Heretics. His brand of heretic is filled with lies that actually cannot be confirmed by scripture and is filled with New Age bunk. That is why Gene is constantly bantering with Jean. Jean has lost the absolute truths that were given to us by the Christ through his Apostles and the Church traditions.

-- Fred Bishop (FCB@heartland.com), May 29, 2002.

Fred - I was unaware compassion was theologically based. My inate feeling and understanding it is part of the human makeup. Some have it and nurture it while others avoid it due to their own pain.

Both you and Eungene C. often refer use the words heretic/sinner why is that?

-- Jean Bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), May 29, 2002.

Courtenay...please forgive us (all of us), for I think there might have been some gender confusion on our part. I thought you were a male, but everyone seemed to be calling you "her." Wow, that's embarassing. Also, it is fascinating and humorous when some of our past foibles and faux pas are brought to light, as in Eugene's case. I have a request: could you "dredge up" even more hilarious quotes from this forum? Eugene, Fred, Melissa, Jean, even myself would be great subjects! I know that if I have spoken with malicious intent, I would like that brought to the surface so that it can be dealt with. I consider myself on good terms with everyone in this forum, and would not want anyone to be holding a grudge against me. I have a sneaking suspicion that that is what is going on towards Eugene. Perhaps you need to re-evaluate your conduct here, Gene? Perhaps we all do.

-- Matthew (magnificentextravaganza@yahoo.com), May 29, 2002.

Matthew,

Most of us in this forum are followers of Christ. It doesn't make us perfect. I think everyone in here has been picked apart at one time or another. We are all human and we all have faults. You will find many different personalities in here, and I think that is great.

Sometimes a strong personality is needed in order to get a point across, and others get their point across in a more subtle way. To err is human.

Imagine what the world would be like, if we were all the same! Diversity is a wonderful thing.

God Bless,

-- Kathy (sorry@nomail.com), May 29, 2002.

PS Matthew,

Courtenay did say to you in one of the above posts that he is a male.

Scroll up a little bit and you'll find it.

-- Kathy (sorry@nomail.com), May 29, 2002.

Just pay attention for a minute. What I wish to say is simple. I do NOT hate Jean, and he is not my enemy; he's my brother. A lost lamb.

He hates for me to refute him. There have been clear cases when Jean left himself wide open to this; and I was feisty with him. Mainly it was Jean's open disdain for the Catholic faith. He needlessly maligned the men who serve God, and the rituals of the Catholic Church. He made what I presume were ''innocently'' blasphemous remarks about the personal conduct of Jesus Christ, and called Saint Mary Magdalene a ''whore''. This was on forum, with bald-face disregard for the feelings of Catholics who were reading him.

Even so, I did not abuse him. I said to him his words were indecent and a SIN.

I didn't claim to hate or try to ban him. Not once. When he persisted in his argument, implying without any worry that my Christ was a ''perfumed'' fake, I took very serious offense. I am not a lukewarm Christian.

Nevertheless, just this morning I stated in one post that all my intentions toward him were benevolent. I want to bring him to the faith. I said it had to be done by combatting his PRIDE. I said I would TAME him, for his own good. Not only that-- I qualified the statement, saying, ''IF GOD GIVES ME THE GRACE.''

For the information of you who can't comprehend what that means, God's GRACE would be the way to tame Bouchard. Not Eugene-- God, through my best efforts.

He verbally abused me shortly afterward, as if he was furious. And now, he's laying on very thick the business about compassion and ''His (Eugene) actions in harming the dignity self respect, & humanity of another''. I HARMED Jean!

Dignity and self-respect without responsibility? Isn't this what's called self-absorption, in real terms?

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), May 29, 2002.