I've been looking for small dagor lens (210mm) for my 8x10 format camera and just knew there're two different kind, the one with gold dot and without. The gold dot one is much more expensive than the one without it. What is the difference? Also, the guy at camera store told me that the one with copal 1 shutter, which I've been looking, only comes with gold dot lens. Is that true? I rarely buy used lens. Is there any advices buying used lens? If you know any good dealer please let me know. Thanks in advance.

-- ric (doorrthree@yahoo.com), June 07, 2002

Answers

There is some debate about whether the Gold Dots really are better than the dotless, but they are of more recent manufacture and they are coated, while those lacking the dots tend to be uncoated, but not always. I would presume that only Gold Dot versions would have been factory mounted in Copal shutters, because earlier ones were mounted in other shutters (Ilex, and others). Some of the very last Gold Rim Dagors made by Schneider after the demise of Goerz were even multicoated and are always in Copal shutters.

-- David Goldfarb (dgoldfarb@barnard.edu), June 07, 2002.

Ric, Midwest Photo Exchange has a 210, f6.8 Goerz Dagor listed on their website at a very reasonable price. Look at mpex.com . If you call and talk to Jim, you will find him to be very knowledgable and helpful.

-- Eugene (TIAGEM@aol.com), June 07, 2002.

The old Dagors have more covering power than the Gold Dots. Strangs, but very true. For lenses, try quality camera in Atlanta.

-- Michael A. Smith (michaelandpaula@michaelandpaula.com), June 07, 2002.

I could believe that. I have 8-1/4" and 12" Gold Dots, which allow for plenty of movement, but was quite surprised to discover that an old 168mm/6.8 Ser. III covers 8x10" quite respectably.

-- David Goldfarb (dgoldfarb@barnard.edu), June 08, 2002.

Ric: I have a Gold Dot Dagor 150mm f6.8 (Goerz Optical) mounted on a synchro-compur shutter. A 12 inches gold rim (American Optical). Both give me plenty of coverage as my old uncoated ones. All Dagors will give you almost 90 degrees of coverage. Now, Schneider starting to manufactured the multicoated 355mm gold dot that was made by Kern in Switzerland. I sold mine due to the coverage that was poor in comparison to the old ones. Mounted on a synchro-compur very beautiful to look at. I sold it. Jim at Lens and Repro as well Ken Ruth at Photography on Bald Mountain explained to me that before Schneider (Kern) the coverage are all the same for all Dagors with exeption of the wide angle versions. Gold rim and Gold dot are a matter of vintage i.e the Gold Dots are the newer ones. Be careful because vendors are applying the gold dot on earlier versions and selling them as the real McCoy.(I had one but got my money back) Call Ken Ruth at (831)423-4465 and he will give you the list number for all Dagors. Besides, he will talk to you in length concerning Dagors and lores about Emil Von Hoegh (1892)the Dagor designer.

-- tito sobrinho (z3sobrinho@prodigy.net), June 08, 2002.

Ric,

As far as I know, only Gold Rim and Gold Dot Dagors come in the Compur shutters, the others come in Ilex shutters. From what I have gathered, for the coated Dagors (above no. 77x,xxx), there is little optical difference between the regular (black) rim and the gold rim, although again, the gold rim come in Compur shutters, and the regular come in Ilexes. Of course, for about $250 plus shutter, you can have it mounted in a modern Copal by Mr. Grimes.

I have no personal experience with Gold Dot Dagors, although I have heard rumors that the elements were machine aligned, or something of the sort.

-- jason (sanford@temple.edu), June 08, 2002.

I use only Dagors -- have done several books with them, have also made 50 inch prints - and my experience is that anything with a serial numer 77XXXX and above is just fine. The gold stuff was a marketing device -- apparently at 77 they got a better colimating system. They are sweet and smooth lenses, though the field of focus isn't flat, which can on occasion drive one crazy. I am actually looking for a 6 1/w wide angle == my wife accidentally threw out a gold ring one, and my current one has an electronic prontor, which is brilliant when it works, but keeps on breaking down expensively.Stephen Grimes in Boston can mount lenses in copals. The old Ilex's aren't bad. I don't think Goerz ever mounted them in copals but I could be wrong. The Schneider 14-in Dagor is in a Copal. The 9 1/2 and 10 3/4 are nice walking around lenses. Good luck.

-- geoffrey james (geoffreyjames@sympatico.ca), June 09, 2002.