I'm about at the breaking point...

greenspun.com : LUSENET : All Things Final Fantasy II : One Thread

In about a day or two, I'm fully prepared to tender my resignation at this forum. I've had it up to here with Kant's promises to control the forum, then promptly backpedalling when it comes time to make an actual show of force. I'm sick of the fighting and the politics, the deals being made and spamming wars. I'm sick of one lone psycho seizing control of the forum and Kant biting his fingernails and fretting over what to do, instead of actually goddamn doing anything. Nearly all of the fun people--Mog, Link, Kao, "and the rest" have gradually trickled out of sight because of the terminally hostile atmosphere, and I'm especially sick of constantly giving out suggestions after people ask what is to be done with the forum, and then getting the verbal shit kicked out of me for daring to tell Kant what to do with his precious little forum.

In the past few days, I've been seriously considering starting my own, more heavily monitored forum, only there are several major roadblocks in my way.

1) I know virtually nil about Final Fantasy, which is the main reason all you people get together.

2) I'm not the most popular person on the forum, due to aforementioned attempts at suggestions.

3) I most certainly do not want the job of policing all of the psychos and self-proclaimed hackers out there, and rounding up you people into something resembling humanity.

So that's out. For a while, I offered myself to Kant as an unofficial advisor of sorts, in a desperate attempt to get him to "toughen up" and carry out some sort of law and order. This did not work, as I would regularly give out suggestions, he would whole-heartedly agree with me, then turn around and ignore them. "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." Since he seems so bound and determined to run them by his own mysterious "rules", and is apparently content to let the forum crash and burn around him while the masses cry out in protest, there lies the limitation of my influence.

Not surprisingly, my main beef is not with Vinny the perpetrator of the events, but Kant. Vinny may be an asshole, but Kant's allowing him to behave that way without any recompense. Deleting each and every individual post is not the solution. Vinny clearly won't respond to reason (I don't buy his eleventh hour change of heart for a minute), bargaining, or threats. The only course of action is to permanently ban him. I don't give a shit who Vinny is friends with. I don't care if he has direct ties with the Pope. He's acting like an obstructive asshole, and he's not being punished for it.

This is the most unprofessional forum I have ever visited. Most forums have some sort of official system for dealing with troublemakers...a system that is clear, concise, and carried out with exacting, uncompromising efficiency. This forum has no such system. When even the moderator is resorting to flaming trolls, it's a mark of a poor-quality forum. Everyone bitched and moaned about Lejes, but by god he knew how to handle trolls.

As I have noted previously, Kant appears to want the glory and prestige of being a moderator (signifing severely crossed priorities, but whatever) without having to actually carry out the duties of said position. As I understand it, a moderator's duties are:

1) To make sure all the members are comfortable and getting along (in other words, basic hosting duties).

2) To deal with situations and confrontations in a reasonable, peaceful manner.

3) To keep the environment peaceful by rooting out and banning troublemakers.

As far as I can tell, Kant has done none of the above. There is the obligatory bone thrown at new members whenever they happen to pop in, but no effort is made to maintain a pleasant environment.

Worse yet, Kant has taken sides with issues among forum members. This is a big no-no. Mods have to maintain neutrality. I don't care if it's your best friend and your worst enemy fighting, you still have to be neutral. You impartially observe events, decide on the contributing factor to the disagreement, then ask the parties to settle their differences either, or if they can't do that, to take it outside of the forum. Any dissuasion from that agreement results in banning.

I know my ideas sound nigh-unto regimental, but I've seen them employed at smoothly-operated forums, and by god they work. The rules must be laid out clearly and simply, along with the result of them being broken. A warning may be given to the offending party (in a non-confrontational manner...something along the lines of "cut that shit out, asshole" is detrimental to the process), but if the warning is ignored, they will be banned. It's that simple. The entire confrontation would take place in the form of private e-mails.

Kant, however, has decided to take a different approach. Whenever someone acts in a way he disapproves of, instead of quietly settling the manner in private, he chooses to hash it out in a public setting, thus giving what I believe DC referred to as "the green light" for everyone to gang up on the offending party and verbally rip them to shreds. He has repeatedly referred to the much-maligned Vinny as a "friend", and defended him whenever Vinny hurles abuse at a member. He also either criticises or ignores advice given to him on the handling of his forum (and not just by me). He claims to be supporting a democracy, while in fact he refuses to take advice from the more concientious members, at the same time allowing the chaotic, out of control members to run amok and behave in any manner they please, no matter how offensive. He calls this "democracy".

I'm aware that by posting this highly controversial thread I will receive simply masses of flames. You know what? I really don't care anymore. This entire procedure has left me exhausted...psychically drained, if you will. I've heard complaint after complaint filed, with nothing being done for the solution. I don't know what else can be done, and especially what more I can do. I've given my advice, and it has been constantly ignored, and still the forum falls.

Also, all of you blasting out your asses about free speech who will doubtlessly come to pronounce me a Satanic Nazi, be my guest. Especially you, Kant, with your proclamations of democracy. How bitterly ironic for you to decry my actions, when I put into use the very virtue you honor by upholding my use of it.

-- Anonymous, June 10, 2002

Answers

Lemme lemme lemme answer this post.....

First of all Kant is the best mod, he cares bout his users and how they feel, u think if he banned me im gonna feel happy? no of course im gonna get pissed of and do some shit, put he didnt ban me cause he knows its better if not to.

Another thing is, hehe if u make ur own msg board NOBODY gonna post there because u gonna be so stricked u gonna delete each post.

Another thing is...... I dont understand why r u still here? if u dont like this board stop complaining and get out... nobody is holding u back.... u piss me off with those long pointless posts of urs.

I may be an asshole, thats my way, since the first post at the orignal ATFF i been like that, wtf? u wanna change the way i act? fuck outta here.... im being nice now cause u guys r tired of me AND because im tired of spamming i dont feel like posting shit no more, im tryin to be nice, u guys just have to give me a chance and stop saying "oh shit nice grammer and no spelling mistakes... whats vincent up to, i dont trust him, he must be tricking us blah blah blah" cmon guys wtf is this first u ask me to be nice and when im nice u start talkin shit bout me? WHAT THE FUCK IS THE PROBLEM????????? I dont wanna be banned, fuck u Ferya u must be a person with cold heart and no feelings, think bout how other people will react, banning is not the fuckin solution, if thats what u think, then go creat a msg board and bann all the users that use the word "FUCK", thats the way u like it isnt it?

this is just stupid, when im acting like an asshole u guys, tale shit and ask me to be nice, when im nice u guys STILL talk shit bout me????????????? u guys must be really bored with no fuckin thing to do, ESPICHALLY you FERYA u got to time to right all this crao and check ur spelling for each word, i bet u got nothing else to do rather then trying to bann me out of this, im here before u, ill leave this after u, so kiss my ass and stop being a 5 years old bitch who lost her candy.............

-- Anonymous, June 10, 2002


first of all i posted agianst you vinny becuase i thought you were still trying to delete this forum but now that you are not i seem to care anymore and vinny to tell you the truth i dont think your a bad guy and i think thats cool, that you relised that what you where planning was evil and siad your sorry, not alot of dudes these days would do something like that. so dude i have nothing agianst you and hopfuly you have nothing agianst me.

TM~

P.S that thing about shooting you i was jus kidding i had to try to keep you on your toes

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2002


I didnt believe you at first....but you are convincing me.....you are still on probation though...but now i will admit it....im sorry for calling you a dumb ass and stuff......but..youre still on probation....and freya...if you want to leave and are tired of the board then go. we all will in time.

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2002

Okay, I think it's time for my two cents to get thrown into the wishing well.

Firstly, before I dig in here, if Freya goes, I go. She has FAR better judgement than I do, and if she deems this place not good, then I'm gone. Now then...

Kant, when last we bitched back and forth, you agreed to ban Vincent. I have waited patiently for... God... HOW long now, for you to keep your promise? Vincent merely being here is offensive to me. You are either as good as your word or you are worthless. Even if Vincent attained Sainthood, I want his ass banned, and why? Because you promised it. You gave your word. Boy do I feel redundant, but there is no way to get Kant to listen if it isn't repeated. The rest of you can skip to the next paragraph now... Kant? Just keep reading. Ban Vincent, because you promised you would. Ban Vincent, because you promised you would. Ban Vincent, because you promised you would. Ban Vincent, because you promised you would. Ban Vincent, because you promised you would. Ban Vincent, because you promised you would. There, Kant, have I said it enough times for it to get through to you?!

Now, I'm gonna add to what Freya said before... to do so, I will Copy & Paste some of her above post.

1) To make sure all the members are comfortable and getting along (in other words, basic hosting duties). [DC here... and Freya forogt to stress the importance of this enough, I think. Kant, you have NEVER made me feel welcome at this forum, EVER. You have made me feel like some sort of outsider who is a bad person for wanting an offensive and rude person banned from the forum. I'm fairly sure there are others who feel that this forum is a hostile place and therefore may not feel welcome here.]

2) To deal with situations and confrontations in a reasonable, peaceful manner. [Again, Freya is being too nice. Kant, remember back when YOU attacked Freya? And in doing so, encouraged all others to do so as well? You fucked up bigtime, and then promised to ban Vincent. You have yet to keep this promise. I say again: Ban Vincent, because you promised you would. How often do you need to be reminded before we see some action here?!]

3) To keep the environment peaceful by rooting out and banning troublemakers. [OKAY!!! The rest of you, skip to the next part. Kant? Guess what! It's time for the "promise chant" again! Ban Vincent, because you promised you would. Ban Vincent, because you promised you would. Ban Vincent, because you promised you would. Ban Vincent, because you promised you would. Ban Vincent, because you promised you would.]

Kant, in case you hadn't noticed, you're shitty lax policy about troublemakers has been driving away the really good people of this Forum. You said before in some random thread that you were going to try to moderate the forum more like Lejes did. I have yet to see evidence of that, too! Untill Vincent is banned, you have no credibility with me, Kant. I say again, ban Vincent, because you promised you would. Ban Vincent, because you promised you would. Ban Vincent, because you promised you would. Ban Vincent, because you promised you would. Ban Vincent, because you promised you would. Ban Vincent, because you promised you would. Ban Vincent, because you promised you would. Ban Vincent, because you promised you would. Ban Vincent, because you promised you would.

Ban Vincent, because you promised you would.

Is that so bloody fucking much to ask?!

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2002


I never really gave any points or played smart in this board, but I feel like saying something....

Kant remember like 1 year ago or something when u started zirah? Who helped u with the posts there? I think its vinny... did freya even show up? NO... Did DC show up??? NO... Again if we look at this board's posts vinny helped more then Ferya or DC, people come and join ur board cause they wanna know what's going on with vinny and they wanna give there motherfuckin opinion.

Ok what do Freya and DC do? Complain about ur board all the time, talk shit about ur mod and how u run the board, and give useless opinion. Ferya if u dont like this "fuck off", take DC with u, start a new board and call it "We love the world" or something u can take all day long togather, and nobody is complaining then....

BTW stupid DC Kant also promised, free speach msg board, and no banning members, so stfu.

Freya, cant u see everything is normall now? why r u bringing trouble again? I think u like it that, u like having fights, so u can type in ur stupid motherfuckin opinion, remember when last month FC created a spechial board for u guys... "Tree Huggers" its still there go and post stupid shit there, and stop fuckin around.

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2002



I'm tired of this. Go see my new post. I'm the moderator here. That is the final word. I delete what I want to delete and keep what I want to keep. I listen to the advice I want to listen to but I do NOT take orders.

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2002

Also Freya, you tell me to be neutral, but wasn't it you that told me just a few days ago that you wanted me to step in when other people pick fights with you?

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2002

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=009M3i go there freya to witness that your screwed. Kant finally decided to stop putting up with your bullshit!!! YES. He has the password, and you dont. he doesnt have to listen to you. he rules all. your screwed. your sooooo fucking screwed. you cant do anything about it. sure, you can post your little flames, but it doesnt matter. they wont do anything. hahahaha. bitch. you better just leave and post your resignation right now, because no matter how many people agree with your views, it doesnt matter. I win, you lose. you don't know how long i have been waiting for this moment. ahhhhhhhh. you hear that, it's the sound of no whores speaking out nonsence and shit. ahhhh...

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2002

FEELS SO GOOD, ah freya i can picture u now, hahaha u thought Kant gonna ban me cause u typed couple of lines hahaha.... hahahahaha.............hahahahahahaha...... hahahahahaha.... heheh. ha . hehehe. hahaha suck it foo

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2002

Um, Freya, you DO realize that the only reason why Link left was because he broke our working forum, Zirah. He couldn't face the guilt after that, so he bolted. No wonder the atmosphere got hostile for him.

Frankly, this whole mess is becoming a bore, and with Exams coming up, Im not even going to bother coming to this place for a while. Settle it yourselves, or not. Anarchy 2 if ya need me.

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2002


*adjusts glasses* Well, it's high time I finally left, too. This place really has just gone to shit, and my patience has really started thinning. There's other places I hang out at, and the people who are worthwhile can e-mail me. I guess this kind of thing is what happens when you get a majority of people with the intelligence of retarded monkeys together and give them keyboards. Anyway, this is officially it.

~kao, and this is the last tagline i'll ever write in atff

-- Anonymous, June 12, 2002


people should't type extremely long posts, cuz lazy people like me don't read long posts. yea, offcourse sumbuddy will say sumtin like, we don't care wether you read my posts or not, cuz you are a retard blabla, but, cuz I already predict that now, it'l prolly not happen.

ps:...uh nothing really

-- Anonymous, June 12, 2002


ow and uh the only rule for running a forum is this.

RUN IT AS YOU SEE FIT.

-- Anonymous, June 12, 2002


BK, your a moron. first you flame Freya for not allowing vinny to speak freely, but then you flame Freya, cuz she critisizes vinny's posts......therefore flame her for what she says.

ANY BELLS RINGING.

F-R-E-E-D-O-M O-F S-P-E-E-C-H

for everyone that is, not only for the people you think should have it, so shut your stupid face, and eat some shrooms

-- Anonymous, June 12, 2002


Okay, it's become abundantly clear I'm not welcome here. So, I'm gone. Kant? Thank you SO much for keeping your promises... *just dripping with sarcasm*

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2002


Freya, I'm deeply sorry that you feel that you need to leave here. Will you do me a favor and email me at this address? You and DC and Kao seem like really nice people--I've just never had the chance to get to know you. I'd really appreciate it if you could email me. It would be nice to speak to an intelligent femail on the internet. And please, let me know if you do start a forum. No matter how strict you are, it's gotta be better than here.

Guys, I'm leaving too. You've driven away some of the only intelligent people here, and that's a sure sign that this board is headed nowhere. What else can we expect from a place that allows people to demean each other and rot in their own vulgarity (yes, Vincent, I am talking to you), and where the only real topic is pointless bullshit? This place is going downhill, as it has been for a very long time now. And yes, I do realize that I am probably acting like a bigger bitch than you claim Freya or DC is. Well, let's see, why shouldn't I? Every time I say something, there's Vincent, trashing every single word. And who is the only person who sticks up for me? Davey. He's the only reason I stay, too. It's pointless, really, to stay where I'm obviously not needed nor wanted.

Kant, you should really listen to DC. Because if you don't take control of this board, you're going to have to let it go. Being mod isn't all fame and glory. Get your shit together or throw it out, because it's stinking up the room.


-- Anonymous, June 14, 2002

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