All right, I need a little help! They're holding a Bishop conference in the DFW area to agree on a policy to deal with bishops that sexually molest children. What the hell am I missing? Why aren't these people in jail? There are five pages in the news paper of molesters or members of the hierarchy that have protected them. Almost all of them are still walking around. Don't we have laws that are suppose to protect these kids? Do you know any other organization where the law wouldn't be prosecuting these molesters? Very few of them have been prosecuted. In one case, the church paid the victims off. It seems to me that paying them off wouldn't negate the laws responsibility to prosecute them. If I molested a 13 year old girl, the law wouldn't give a damn if I gave the family a million dollars or not, my happy ass would be in jail!

This burns me. None of the news talking heads are asking why these people are still free. None are acting like this conference shouldn't even be necessary! They don't need a policy. They simply need to follow the nations laws and their Gods law. Also, what's up with these idiots that are being interviewed? The ones that say that this conference is a good thing and is going to make the church stronger? Do these blithering idiots realize how long this has been going on? Do they realize that this was a big news story just five years ago? And they were told that this wouldn't be tolerated? Yet, the church continued to cover up the incidents? Don't they realize that they've been lied to, are being lied to and are going to continue to be lied to? Do they think that adopting this policy is going to change pedophiles? Or that anything is going to change? They have been brainwashed to the n/th degree.

Why is it that all these priests are molesting boys? Do they not have girls in the Catholic church? How can a priest stand there and preach against homosexuals when he is one? Why aren't the people leaving the church in droves? If he's hypocritical in one thing and is a criminal then doesn't it stand to reason that he's capable of being hypocritical in other things and committing other crimes? How can they believe anything he has to say?

One church received a new priest that had been transferred out of another church because he was accused of molesting a boy or boys. These church members knew about it and welcomed him with open arms. When interviewed they told what a great guy he was! I have yet to see anyone interviewed when one of their neighbors is accused of a crime that says that they always suspected that he was a crook or child molester. They always tell the interviewer what a great, polite person they were.

You probably can't tell that this upsets me but it does. This isn't a tirade against religion, although it may seem to read that way, but against stupidity, injustice and blind obedience. Am I the only one that finds this incomprehensible?

Joy, I put this under "Reduce, reuse and recycle".

Wildman, (confused as always)

-- Anonymous, June 12, 2002

Answers

Wildman...I agree 200% with all you just said!!! I am totally confused as to why this "problem" is being handled the way it is! Harry and I have an occasional conversation about this subject with his mother (a devout Catholic) and she can't seem to understand the side of these poor kids that are now coming forward and telling the truth. As a survivor myself, it's a very difficult and "touchy" subject and one that I don't want to see swept under the rug!!! Really fries my cookies!

-- Anonymous, June 12, 2002

Well 3 thaings come to mind here Wildman!

First Celibacy. Duh!!?? A fence with a knothole would look really good afer 5 years or so!!

Second priests being around little children who think the have a connection to God or something! If he speaks for God it must be okay!!

Third God will forgive my sins! Can't ya just see how those scum bags are useing that one? Recipe for coverups....

Hey Wildman whats incomprehensible mean?? Don't try to impress me with those big words!!!!......Kirk

-- Anonymous, June 12, 2002

Not as many women have come forward about being molested, but there are some among the number -- I was listening to interviews with some of them on NPR.

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2002

I also agree with you, Wildman.

Speaking as a Catholic, I am VERY upset at how the church has hidden and ignored this behavior. Pedophilia is A CRIME, and must be punished, no matter who the perpetrator is.

BTW, anyone know any websites which purport that Catholic priests are more likely to commit pedophilia vs. any other denomonation? I've heard the charges for years against priests, but don't seem to recall any other denomonations receiving any attention. Not excusing behavior, just curious. The Catholic church hierarchy really needs to change their attitude; for the sake of their credibility and justice for those who have been molested.

Now as for speaking 'against' homosexuality, I'm a little more neutral. I have never heard anything said in my church against a person who is homosexual, only against the behavior. My understanding of the church's position is that a person can be a homosexual and be chaste and still be in good standing in the church. It is when the person begins engaging in homosexual behavior does the church begin to condem (sp?) them.

I know there are many homosexuals who practice monogamy, who are kind and are great human beings. These are the ones, unfortunately, who get lumped with the crowd of the wild 'flaming' ones. Funny, if a heterosexual man chases everything and anything with a skirt, that isn't judged as bad behavior, people just smile, shake their heads (ooh, that rascal). If a heterosexual woman does the same thing, she is said to be a slut. If a homosexual man or woman does the same, they are judged as engaging in normal behavior.

Am I wrong on this? Most every portrayal shown on movies - TV (I know, I know, media pretty much lies on everything), shows homosexuals as over the top, flamboyant, and horny.

So let me get this straight. The Catholic church expects homosexuals to not engage in sex? Yes, I think that is their position. Isn't that expecting a lot from people (not engaging in sex)? Yes, but priests are held under the same expectation. To be a priest, that man must not engage in ANY sex.

And this is voluntary, not due to some medical condition, but something the priest knows that to be a priest, no more whoopi, homosexual - hetrosexual whatever. It is part of the doctrine. Changing the church laws allowing priests to become married to me would be caving in to outside pressures. Yes, I know it is a new millenium, but that is no reason to change your beliefs. You don't like the church rules, change denominations. IMHO, God doesn't care WHICH church you attend (or even attend), the judgement will fall on how you lived your LIFE, and how you treated people.

The real shame is now ALL priests are under suspicion. And that is an injustice, for there are priests who have spent their lives as devout Catholics. Our priest just had his 49th anniversary as a priest. A good man.

This is a good discussion, thanks for bringing this one up.

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2002

I don't really see what there is to discuss at their conference unless they need a consensus to say this is a crime. Call the cops!!! It seems they think they are above the law.

I saw a 60 Minutes show last night where they interviewed female as well as male victims. I don't think they will ever be able to get over this. Many it seemed were assaulted while they attended Catholic school, and the abuse lasted for years. This makes me so angry. One family who brought a suit against the church was made to look like it was their fault for trusting a priest alone with their child. One bishop said that he had to move a certain priest's bedroom from downstairs to upstairs to make it harder for kids to sneak in through the window. He knew about it and never did anything more to stop it.

Another priest who was known to have had "problems" before was sent to a country parish where he was the only priest and was boy scout leader. This man would tell parents there was no need to travel all the distance to pick up their kids late in the evening. He regularly had "slumber parties" with the boys. This makes me SICK!

What I did find interesting is that an attorney was talking about how the Catholic church may now start being prosecuted under RICO laws sp?. I'm not sure what that stands for but those are laws put in place to be able to go after organized crime. If you take away the religion and look at this large organization with a heirarchy that hides evidence, obstructs justice, and pays people off the way the Catholic church has in these instances, it sure does look an awful lot like organized crime.

This is so sad and unfortunate for the trusting and devout people who belong to the church and like JR said the good priests who wish noone harm are doing a good job.

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2002

And they're off! Actually, Wildman, this was under 'uncategorized', so I moved it to social issues. Maybe we should have a 'Rants' section? ;-)

I don't know why the Church is being left to handle this issue, and I'm embarassed to say that I never really even thought about that much. Where IS the law in this? Is it because there have been no criminal complaints? Have the victims filed these as civil suits? Is that the difference? Wasn't there at least one priest (lower level, not a bishop) dragged off in handcuffs? Maybe most of these cases are deemed to be unproveable as criminal actions? I don't know!

Now this is really cynical on my part, but regarding preying on boys rather than girls, there is a greater chance that preying on a boy will not come to light. Simply because a boy cannot get pregnant! Also, despite our modern times, I think there has been a tendency to pay more attention to any interaction of girls and priest than to boys and priests.

In my area, a few years back, there was a much revered Catholic priest murdered. The crime has never been solved, and no motive has ever come to light (no signs of robbery, forced entry). Some expert opinion, from a profiler I guess, postulated that the murderer was a youngish man, known to the victim, and that the murder was done in an extreme rage. I don't know what evidence they used to come up with this profile, but in light of all the molestation cases coming into the open, now I wonder if there was some connection in this case. Or I could just be totally off track . . . .

I was raised Protestant, more or less, and so, I have no real insight on the connections and interactions of Catholics with their priests. I cannot fathom being able to countenance such behavior. There is a shortage of young men entering the priesthood. Some later leave the priesthood. Now all these priests are being removed because of their actions. I don't see how the Catholic church can continue without changing something. If a celibate male (who actually remains celibate) is an absolute requirement, where are they going to come from. In fact, what criteria does any church require of it's priest, pastors, and ministers? In my Lutheran years, I had cause to know four different pastors rather well, and later, a Methodist minister. Of those five, three seemed to me to be excellent "shepherds of the flock". The other two were jerks -- arrogant and/or mean. Not fit to be leaders at all. And this was based on their interpersonal relationships and how they treated the parishoners. All of them married, but I knew/know nothing about their sexual lives (and I don't WANT to!).

As for the homosexuality issue in Christianity, I'll just share this interesting site: A Catechesis On Homosexuality. I don't know where I got that link. I tend to save things like that for when I need a back-up for my position. Possibly EM posted it here in the past.

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2002

Thank you all for responding and letting me know that I'm not completely bonkers. Please allow me to respond later to all of those that did respond but right now, I just heard some things that absolutely floor me! Maybe I shouldn't watch any more of this? Hang on to your hats, folks! The conference has drafted a proposal. Now, originally, some of the bishops wanted it to where if the priest only molested one child, then that was O.K.! Couldn't do it again but once was O.K.! Some of them actually wanted to let their priest commit one felony. Kinda of like a trial run! Needless to say, there are a lot of good Catholics in the DFW area and they're out in force, confronting these bishops at the conference. They evidently did a good job because they've announced that they've "drafted" a "Zero Tolerance Policy". As Kirk would say, "Duh"! What floors me is that the Bishops think they've really done something ground breaking and people are eating it up. "Step in the right direction" and all that! According to the new policy, past, present and future abusers will no longer be priest. Great! But, it begs the question, why are they STILL priest? The bishops admitted that some of these priest have been moved to other churches where they still continued to abuse and are still priests. Most of you know that most of the laws that our congressmen make don't apply to them, right? Now, folks, I'm old enough that not much shocks me but this proposal that the bishops are drafting does NOT apply to Bishops! Go figure. Only the Pope can kick a bishop out. And some of the bishops are the offenders! One of the Bishops said that if a Bishop were guilty of child molesting then he should step down. Wrong, he should be prosecuted! They act as if not being a Bishop any longer is punishment enough. It will be interesting in the near future to see how many Bishops are removed. Now I love the part of the Constitution about separation of Church and State and I didn't think that the Church was above the law but I might be wrong. It was reported that the Pope "hinted" that the Bishops not release their records for review by law officials! If the records are subpoenaed, I didn't know there was a choice. Are we going to have another Authur B.Anderson here? A hint from the Pope seems like an order to me. What Bishop would want to piss the Pope off? I'm not a lawyer but if you know about a felony or a common crime, aren't you obligated under law to report it? Won't you be considered an accessory if you assist in covering it up and you don't report it? Will this create a shortage of priests? I surely don't expect the Church to crumble but I do expect a huge financial drain on it shortly.

I reiterate, this is not against religion. I'd be just as steamed if it were the American Legion or the local city government or any organization that seems to be above the law, knowingly committing criminal acts and covering them up. It has nothing to do with religion Doth I protest too much? I hate it when someone comes on and reports the "news", but this stuff is just too unreal to be ignored. I would love to still be in the DFW area and be able to listen to the talk news radio shows. I'll bet it's hot and heavy.

Wildman, (someone put my legs back under me)

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2002

Is this something new to Americans? Here we had the Mount Cashel blow up years ago (it was in Nfld. actually) wherein priests abused boys in the Mount Cashel orphanage. There was a TV movie about it too. I found it all rather sickening. And people wonder why parents are more protective/over protectoive nowadays!!

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2002

Kirk, I didn't mean to use "incomprehensible". I meant to use another word and when I ran Spell check, that was one of the replacement words for the one I misspelled and it was better that what I was going to use, so I took it. You don't think I could spell all these words by myself do you?

Julie, I suspect that more women will come forward but it's amazing that they seem to prefer boys.

JR, I stand corrected on the church position against homosexuals. I misspoke. It's the act not the person. Now, I think I could, possibly, provide an explanation as to why promiscuous sex is viewed different depending on whether it's a man or woman involved but the answer might be a little graphic for some. By the way, that's not true for all societies. There are some tribes where every blue moon or something, the women, married or single, have sex with everyone they want to, (and evidently from the show I saw, they want to: many times) then it's back to monogamy. You're absolutely right about the good priests but as with corruption in government or any organization, everyone is under suspicion. Guilty or not, here we come!

Denise, all I can say is "right on". I agree with everything you had to say.

Ah Joy, saying I was putting this post under "reduce, reuse and recycle", was a poor attempt at humor. Also, it was to let you know that I did read the categories and probably didn't put it where it should go. I really like the "Rant" category. If we're voting, I vote yes.

If the cops suspect me of abusing my children, they don't need a complaint. They come get them and I get prosecuted. Now, they have to prove I abused the children. Yes, some of the priests have been convicted of child abuse and jailed. Some have gone to civil court and the Church has paid off the families. I think the difference between criminal prosecution and civil prosecution, is in the degree of evidence that's required for a guilty verdict. I know this isn't legalese but the amount of evidence in a civil trial is a lot less than it would be for a criminal trial. Ala O.J. Simpson

Simplistically, the reason that the Church wants their Priest to be unmarried is because it would interfere with his duties to the church. He is married to the Church or God. What if he were married and one of the church members was on his death bed, but the wife had tickets to the ballet or his boy had a ball game, or daughter was graduating, etc.? Celibate? That one eludes me. I have no reason why they would punish him that way. Maybe JR can shed a little light on this one.

I believe you're right about the priest and girls being more closely supervised than the priest and boys. Also that the boys can't get pregnant. I also believe that the girls would be more likely to turn them in that the boys would. Now don't go flaming me for this because I might not be saying it just the way I mean it but I think the boys would be more embarrassed and fearful that someone would find out that they had had sex with another man than a woman would. I understand it's traumatic for both but I think the stigma is worse for boys. Or at least, the boys would perceive it that way.

Opps, gotta go there's a Victoria's Secrets advertisement coming on the television!

Wildman, (not celibate, not now, not ever)

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2002