"Thomas Merton is widely acclaimed as one of the most influential American spiritual writers of the past century."

Looking at the monk's life; he was an educated man with at times a wild party life and was initially opposed to Catholicism, then he went to the other extreme, he more than just sobered up when he converted to the faith, he lived in cloistered isolation as a monk in Kentucky. At the end of his life, "He traveled to Bangkok to attend an East-West religious dialogue. ...There, in 1968, he was accidentally electrocuted by the fan in his room." I read somewhere that when he was overseas he was writing an introduction to a Buddhist manual.

I have a book of Merton's called "Thoughts in Solitude" by Noonday Press. The back cover of his book has a commentary desribing Merton saying,

"An outspoken proponent of the antiwar and civil rights movement,...He was also unique among religious leaders in his embrace of Eastern mysticism, positing it as *complementary* to the Western sacred tradition."

That comment implies Christianity lacks something and needs to be "completed" by Eastern religions. Also, did his social activism only serve to cover up guilt feelings from his past and an underlying desire to undermine the strength of the Catholic people with Eastern religious thought?

What was Merton's true thinking?

-- Mike H (michael.hitzelberger@vscc.cc.tn.us), June 14, 2002

Answers

What was Merton's true thinking?

-- Mike H (michael.hitzelberger@vscc.cc.tn.us), June 14, 2002.

To me he is a dangerous heretic. He tried to blend other religions into Catholism.

-- Fred Bishop (FCB@heartland.com), June 14, 2002.

Mike,

Thomas Merton was dealt with in another thread you might check it out here

God Bless

-- Brian (sacerdos@hotpop.com), June 14, 2002.

I have been reading Merton's "New Seeds of Contemplation" and find it to be EXTREMELY enlightening! He has concepts that make shadows of what I ever thought about on certain aspects of Catholicism. I had doubts about him because of his "eastern" connections. But this is what I heard: he uses these eastern meditational techniques to better bring himself closer to the reality of Christ. It isn't that Christianity lacks something (Catholicism in particular lacks nothing). Rather, it is the Catholic individuals that lack a spirituality and mentality, which hinders their meditational skills. These "eastern" skills are not dangerous in and of themselves. It is just that some easterners use these skills to bring themselves dangerously close to pagan gods (witch is an advantage for Satan). Meditation as used by easterners is a very powerful skill, and when used to focus ones self on God and Christ’s passion it ultimately does complete the Catholic. This cannot be taken as the actual eastern meditation style is what completes a Catholic, it is the closeness to God that this meditation provides (and which most westerners unfortunately lack).

If you read Merton's "New Seeds..." (I don't know about his other writings before or after) you will see his staunch Catholic attitude, and the fruits of his ability to meditate and contemplate (weather it is eastern method or not) at an extreme level not met by many.

I wrote this not to defend Merton, because like all humans we are on and off the road to Heaven quite sporadically. It could be that as I write he is out smoking dope. I did, however, write to defend his ability and knowledge at certain inspired times, and to maybe bring some light into how he could utilize eastern religious practices (like meditation), but still focus himself on our Catholic belief. I don't believe while practicing meditation, it necessarily means you have to practice Buddhism. I truly believe his book that I am reading was during one of these inspired times.

Hope this is helpful.

In Christ.

-- Jake Huether (jake.huether@lamrc.com), June 14, 2002.

I think the best way to look at Thomas Merton is as an interesting failure.

The farther back you go, the more orthodox his books were. Like Dorothy Day, he was religiously orthodox and politically liberal. In the latter part of his life he did go a little overboard in his exploration of Eastern religions.

However, be careful about calling him a "heretic". As I understand the term, a heretic is one who stubbornly denies a doctrine of the Faith. I have read most of his works, even the later ones, and never read anything that seemed to deny a doctrine of the Faith. If you can provide a quotation, of course, I'll check it out.

Love, :-)

-- Christine Lehman (christinelehman@hotmail.com), June 14, 2002.

Have you ever heard of the "God Squad?" A priest and a rabbi team, who are also good friends, write books, and travel around the country doing talks on religion.

They were on the Imus show this morning promoting a book they just wrote, called, "Religion for Dummies." Fr. Tom said the book will talk about 14 different religions and how we can each learn something from other religions, learn the beauty, wisdom, peace, etc. that other religions have to offer and there is much to learn from them. He spoke of tolerance for other religions.

Is that wrong? Maybe we can learn from other religions, not 'practice' other religions, but what is wrong with reading about them to see what we can learn from them, and respect others for their beliefs which may be different from ours.

Fr. Andrew Greeley is, to me, a 'modern-day' Merton. You may be surpirsed to know that Jesus himself had the same concerns as did Thomas Merton and Fr. Andrew Greeley. Jesus was concerned with the social issues of the day and I am sure would spend time listening to people of other faiths. Jesus was very radical in his views.

I do not undertand why you call Thomas Merton a heretic, Fred. He never abandoned his Catholic faith and he was 'invited' to the East and was encouraged to go by his superiors. Thomas Merton, while living in Gethsemani, the Trappist monestary where he lived, had frequent guests from all walks of life, and all faiths. His superiors enjoyed the guests and the discussions.

Thomas Merton was a brilliant man, very complex indvidual. He converted to Catholicism through the powerful intercession of Our Lady. He loved God, loved being a monk, although at times questioned his way of life. He had a very difficult childhood, lived an extraordinary life, 'exprienced' life before becoming a monk.

He was, after all, a human being who made mistakes - like we all do, like our Catholic priests obviously do - are they heretics?

I don't know why you insist, Fred, on calling this man a heretic. You seem to love that word. I only hope that God is not as judgemental as you are, Fred.

There is another thread on Thomas Merton and I don't want to continue another lengthy discussion on him here.

However, I do want to say that intelligent people have open minds and question things in life, even their religion and their faith. It does not mean that one does not believe, it does not mean that one is going to leave their religion, but we question things and that is all part of being human. It does not make one a heretic, Fred, and Thomas Merton was not a heretic. If he was, I doubt that catholic libraries would house 'all' of his books.

MaryLu

-- MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), June 14, 2002.

Jake,

Interesting ideas. I agree we need spiritual formation as Catholics today. We need foundational training in the basics. But it is in the Catholic tradition as well. St. John of the Cross is a neglected writer who we might learn anew from today. Also the desert hermits or St. Francis of Assisi.

Christine,

Interesting you compare him to Dorothy Day. I see that. That political streak in us all.

Brian,

I'll check out the other thread too but this one is good.

MaryLu,

I agree that all good things in Buddhism are still good, all good things in Islam are still good. The pope would agree with that. He talked about religions in "Crossing the Threshold of Hope" in that manner. I wondered if Merton went beyond that. Maybe he did not and God took his life before he messed up so he would not be disregarded by us and we would love him through his books?

-- Mike H (michael.hitzelberger@vscc.cc.tn.us), June 14, 2002.

Personally, I think God loved Thomas Merton just the way he was.

He was a complex human being, always searching, reflecting, questioning - never, did he question his love for God or for Our Lady.

MaryLu

-- MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), June 14, 2002.

Fred,

I can tell it is going to be one of those days, but can you tell me what the word 'heretic' means to you?

St. Joan of Arc was burned at the stake for being a heretic.

MaryLu

-- MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), June 14, 2002.

MaryLu and Fred

Simon Magnus of Acts of the Apostles is the archheretic of antiquity. Occult Magician turned baptised Christian turned heretic. He mixed Chrisitanity with other occult teachings so he could be a bishop in his own mind. The apostles would not "lay hands" on him so he did what he did.

-- Mike H (michael.hitzelberger@vscc.cc.tn.us), June 14, 2002.

I don't think anyone who has actually *read* the writings of Thomas Merton (or Andrew Greeley, for that matter) would put them in the same category as Simon Magus.

-- Christine Lehman (christinelehman@hotmail.com), June 14, 2002.

Dorothy Day is another interesting figure. She gave Our Lord her hands, so-to-speak, and often gave the hierarchy a hard time.

She, too, was a convert and became a very devout catholic.

She truly lived her faith by doing - I read her story, "Loaves and Fishes" and feel ashamed of myself because I certainly do not 'do' enough for Our Lord. She was called to do great things and she said 'yes' to the call.

MaryLu

-- MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), June 14, 2002.

Chritine,

I didn't say Simon Magus was like Merton, I gave a description of a heretic for Fred.

But there are similarities. It seems if someone converts to Christianity from a life of wild living, it might be best if that person now chooses a low key, average, quiet role in the world. That is their penance. Once a bad habit is formed, and then given up, it is easy to relapse in thinking or behavior. It would be best for that person to avoid positions of power and influence within their new "holy" environment. Merton tried to be more than he could be. It seems Merton tried to be a powerful influence in the Church and his anti-Catholic thinking was reborn, subtly at first and then it grew. His lusts returned as well as an indication that his pride was back.

Peace

-- Mike H (michael.hitzelberger@vscc.cc.tn.us), June 14, 2002.

MaryLu,

Basically a heretic is a personor group who takes the word of God and re configures or adds to it. They try to change the image of Christ to suit their needs and will not consider the outcome. Some like the Jehovahs Witnesses and the mormons are heretical by the fact that they do not accept Christ as being God and a Deity. Catholics can be heretic by not accepting certain doctrines of faith or adding other ideals such as New Age ideals.

-- Fred Bishop (FCB@heartland.com), June 14, 2002.

Mike,

As far as Merton trying to be a powerful influence in the Church, he was asked by the Pope to write for the church, he was asked by his superiors to write for the church - if you mean power through his writings. I am not exactly sure what you meant by his trying to be more than he could be.

He was a very complex human being, I think he was very troubled. My opinion is that he struggled his entire life between his vocation and the desire to return to the real world. I also think he entered the monestary because he was afraid of 'himself,' afraid of the path he was on.

He tried very hard to be a good priest. The human side of him struggled with his human desires. He truly loved the nurse he fell in love with. He was human, not a robot and I hope that God is merciful and looks at the 'whole' picture. His lonely, troubled childhood did affect him deeply. I'm sure psychiatrists would have a field day with Thomas Merton. I don't know if any ever analzyed this man.

But, only God knows what was in his heart. He did show sorrow for his infidelity and struggled for most of his life with the feelings he had for the nurse. Today, if a priest felt that strongly about a women, he would leave and marry her. Some people are stronger than others in this area. Let God be his judge. He was not, however, a heretic. I have read six of Thomas Merton's books, and no where have I seen any indication that he was a heretic.

I have more problems with priests raping children than anything Thomas Merton may have done.

MaryLu

-- MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), June 14, 2002.

Hi, Mike - -

Well, that's why I characterized Merton as an "interesting failure" (in my post above).

By the way, what Mary Lu says is true - he started, and continued, writing under obedience from his superiors. If he did fall into error, some of the blame must be imparted to them as well.

But I don't think he was a heretic, simply because, as I stated above, I have not seen anything that he actually wrote *himself* which denied any doctrine of the Faith. Unfortunately, a lot of his writing is now being used by people who *are* heretics themselves, and are taking his work out of context to fit their own agendas. I don't think he'd be too thrilled about that.

Love, :-)

-- Christine Lehman (christinelehman@hotmail.com), June 14, 2002.

MaryLu The New Age Heretics within and on the outer fringes of Catholism have used the theologies of Thomas Merton as the very basis of their theologies and he actually worked with them just prior to his death and this work of his was of great concern to the Vatican leaders. I did in fact earlier did a search on his past and found out some very disturbing facts on him and his works that he was doing prior to his death as he was in communication with the D'ali Llama in forming a new theolgy integrating Christianity with buddist theologies. This action of his is instumental in the New Age theologies that are currently bombarding our Church today and will cause a change that will distract our attention away from Christ and the Trinitarian Godhead. The current dammage is already a painful mess and will take years to eradicate and to identify. It can and will destroy the very meaning of the Eucharist that we enjoy today at the Mass. I certainly not in favor of the danger it poses on our current liturgy and am praying that it will pass soon. Joan Storey is a prime example of that. She is constantly trying to undermine us with smooth talking buckets full of lies.

Blessings.

-- Fred Bishop (FCB@heartland.com), June 14, 2002.

MaryLu

I don't know of his published writings. You may be right, they all may be clean technically. His life or personal writings may show other information. A person can officially publish truth but privately state, write or do otherwise. For example, in the Didache (The Lord's Teaching Through the Twelve Apostles to the Nations) Chapter 11, it says:

"But not every one who speaks in the Spirit is a prophet; but only if he holds the ways of the Lord. Therefore from their ways shall the false prophet and the prophet be known. And every prophet who orders a meal in the Spirit does not eat it, unless he is indeed a false prophet. And every prophet who teaches the truth, but does not do what he teaches, is a false prophet.

I like my role models to live up to what they publish.

Peace

-- Mike H (michael.hitzelberger@vscc.cc.tn.us), June 14, 2002.

I think the ultimate bottom line is that Thomas Merton was a brilliant man who *could* have been a saint, but tragically, fell short. And that, like all sinners, he can use our prayers right now.

+ RIP Thomas Merton +

Love, :-)

-- Christine Lehman (christinelehman@hotmail.com), June 14, 2002.

Well said, Chris...short, and to the point.

Bill O'Reilly, of Foxnewschannel, says that his father taught him to get his point across in 60 seconds or don't bother. I have not learned how to do that yet, and don't know if I ever will. :)

MaryLu

-- MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), June 14, 2002.

MaryLu and Christine,

Yes, do pray for everyone, I don't harbor ill will. My point is that in picking role models it is best to pick those who are well above average.

You mentioned Thomas Merton's father. Thomas Merton's father died when Thomas was young. Thus his father probably had less influence on him than his grandfather. Here is a quote from a Catholic biography on him:

"From his grandfather, young Thomas was imbued with hostility toward Catholicism. He was sent to boarding schools in France and England. His father died of a brain tumor while Thomas was still young."

So Merton learned anti-Catholicism at a young age. This doesn't condemn him but he is now susceptible to relapses in that thought pattern. And writing books and getting fame, real or imagined, is a real temptation to pride. This pride can trigger rebelliousness.

To show that this anti-Catholicism never died out but rather he hid it, look at how Merton developed his Catholic faith in his college days. He used William Blake as his inspiration! William Blake, without question, is a complete heretic, yet he was Merton's ideal during formation. Blake isn't even a good Protestant. Blake was adrift, alone on the spiritual seas, blown about without a rudder, and he liked it that way. Read about William Blake and see. Here is one more quote about Merton's use of Blake:

"Reading Blake enkindled an interest in religion, which was fortified by a trip to Rome....After completing a master's thesis on Blake, Merton was finally moved to embrace Catholicism by reading the letters of Cardinal Newman to Gerard Manly Hopkins."

Above quotes are from the Catholic source: Mount Angel Abbey Library

Now that the Merton-Blake link is established, here is information on Blake:

"William Blake 1757-1827, It is doubtful whether he should appear in...Christian verse at all. If he was a Christian, he was certainly a heretic. His surprising gospel, with its admiration for all positive feelings, its horror of any kind of prohibition or asceticism, is at odds both with the doctrines of every important branch of Christianity and also with Christ's own teaching."

Above quote from: Lord David Cecil, The Oxford Book of Christian Verse

And finally this quote below from the Thomas Merton society:

"While a student there, he completed a thesis on William Blake who was to remain a lifelong influence on Merton's thought and writings."

Based on this, one might at least read his works with a little extra wariness, if at all.

Peace

-- Mike H (michael.hitzelberger@vscc.cc.tn.us), June 15, 2002.

Mike

Very interesting and bothersome too. THANKS.

-- Fred Bishop (FCB@heartland.com), June 15, 2002.

You're welcome Fred.

God Bless You

-- Mike H (michael.hitzelberger@vscc.cc.tn.us), June 15, 2002.

One of the U.S. bishops who did not quite make it to the Dallas bishops' meeting this week was ex-Abp. Rembert Weakland (O.S.B.).
You have probably heard the sad tale, described this week by the Dallas Morning News as follows:

"Milwaukee Archbishop Rembert Weakland resigned in May after admitting that he tried to buy the silence of a former theology student who accused him of sexual assault. Archbishop Weakland acknowledged an affair with the man but denied abuse. He initially said he had given the archdiocese more than enough money to cover the $450,000 secret settlement, then later acknowledged otherwise. Local and federal prosecutors have begun preliminary inquiries into the financial matter."

This came as no suprise to me, as Abp. Weakland was a notorious dissenter on sexual and other doctrine and labored against the papal will for decades. He caused tremendous pain to orthodox clergy and laity in Milwaukee and had to be stopped by the pope from beginning a disastrous "renovation" (actually "wreck-ovation") of his cathedral.

A day or two after the news broke, I saw this item in a Milwaukee newspaper:

"In 1968, he [Benedictine Archabbot Rembert Weakland] presided at the meeting of Monastic Superiors in Bangkok, at which Thomas Merton was one of the speakers. After Merton's death, Weakland administered the final anointing and had the body shipped back to the monastery of Gethsemani [Kentucky]."

What is my point?
EVERY orthodox commentator whom I have ever heard speaking about Fr. Louis (Thomas) Merton has praised his early years as a Catholic and writer, but has stated that he went haywire in his final years. My question would be: Which one -- Weakland or Merton -- had the bad influence on the other, or did they each adversely affect the other?

May God be merciful to them and us.
John

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), June 15, 2002.

MaryLu

It does not make one a heretic, Fred, and Thomas Merton was not a heretic. If he was, I doubt that catholic libraries would house 'all' of his books.

That is exactly the problem that you keep missing. The heretics will use Merton's "good name" to get the mission they want to achieve and they have succeded in infiltrating our Churches and publications for years. It is the unknowing whom they work on and it is an old trick of theirs to come in the back door and convert people. The intellect is and has been the route they have succeeded in recent times. We have seen some of this in recent months from people like the Joan Storeys and her kind and Jean B is in the same boat. The devil has had a lot of success in the use of intellectuals and people like Merton to further their successes in recent times.

-- Fred Bishop (FCB@heartland.com), June 15, 2002.

Fred-- You've said he was a heretic. Now you say he'll be used by heretics.

But I'd like to remind you; you aren't qualified to call anybody a heretic. You aren't a doctor of the Church, or a theologian. Change your terminology to some less inflammatory word. Say ''bad influence'' of unorthodox, or ''silly fad''.

You've also overworked and overstressed ''New Age''. Some New Age fads today aren't anti-religious in nature. Not many care about religion at all. You keep setting up straw dogs to knock down. Now Thomas Merton strikes you as an enemy. Who's next? Who did you catch teaching heresy now, and wish to condemn publicly? Is C.S. Lewis a heretic? Was Bob Dylan a heretic? They have a big following.

We are ALL of us sinners.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), June 15, 2002.

Then YOU tell me what is the stuff that was in his last writings and his diary!!! It was full of heretical thinking and harmful dialog that is now used to damage our church these days. hese things are being used by the Joan's and Jean's to mash up our Christ.

-- Fred Bishop (FCB@heartland.com), June 15, 2002.

John,

It is interesting that there is a connection between Weakland and Merton. Maybe they were just birds of a feather flocking together. Maybe they were just two people who had dark hidden agendas even though they looked good on the surface. And they probably weren't aware of it much. That darkness creeps into hearts slowly, so it isn't noticed by the person yet it was obvious to others who personally know them. Getting fame or power is always dangerous, be it secular popularity or within religious circles.

We are responsible for our own salvation; no one can take it away. Ultimately, Merton couldn't take it from Weakland or the reverse. Weakland can still change. When there is life there is hope!

Rom 8:38-39

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord

There are many fallen angels. I pray I am not one. It is better to be an average Joe or Jane in the parish who prays and goes to bible study once a week. We must really wonder why we rise up in the Church if we do. We should ask, Is it God or just myself pushing it along?

Tertullian is another example. He is quoted in the Catechism extensively but he fell away into a renegade cult in his later years. He must have had a personal agenda too. His later writings sound angry and judgemental. Even Augustine, who was like Merton in that he was first opposed to the faith and then converted and later rose in power or popularity. Augustine's best works are his early works. His later works are questionable and not used by the Church as much. He also had to publish many retractions of his writings in later years. Some have said that he became a saint on criteria that are no longer used by the Church and that by today's standards for saints he would not be a saint.

Power eats us up. I imagine that the most saintly popes, bishops, priests, kings, or prominent persons and women too, did so from a firm beginning at home with good Catholic parents and never had to overcome habitual mortal sins. I think prodigal sons especially need to live quiet, lowly and holy lives, without religious honors, when they come home. Anyway, I am one of those prodigals so remind me not to get any fame or power, religious or secular.

Peace

-- Mike H (michael.hitzelberger@vscc.cc.tn.us), June 17, 2002.

Too many people are like dogs. They bark at anything unknown. Yes - we shall not embrace everything we dont know. We should try everything and keep what is good. We should strive for speaking prophetic. Thats what is done in Thomas Mertons writing.

Mertons writings are very valuable as our times needs voices of discernment, that isnt grounded on fear, but on the love of God. Many things that is done under the label of church, is still not building the kingdom of God. Among them fear of the unknown ...

I have only read New Seeds ... but cannot see anything that point out Merton as any heretic. We are challenged by him. Thats something else.

In Christ

Atle

-- Atle Skorstad (atle@valberget.no), July 31, 2002.

" I think one can certainly believe in the revealed truths of Christianity and follow Christ,while at the same time having a Buddhist outlook on life and nature.Or in other words, a certain element of Buddhism in culture and spirituality is by no means incompatible with Christian belief..." Thomas Merton's words in the letter to Marco Pallis,1963 as written in "The Hidden Ground of Love:Letters",edited by William H. Shannon,Farrar,New York,1989,p.445.

Thanks to God Thomas Merton has already left some answers to the questions to be asked more than 40 years later.I think this will help Mike in addition to what has already being said.

-- Vianney George (kakadanny2002@yahoo.com), August 29, 2002.