Now that the Bishops have voted to adopt zero tolerence policies in regards to sexual abuse by Priests, what actions will be taken to remove Cardinals and Bishops who have been involved in and had knowledge of previous cases of sexual abuse? Thank you.

-- Diane O'Rourke (dianeoro@earthlink.net), June 15, 2002

Answers

When did they vote on 'zero tolerance?' I have not heard anything about Zero tolerance and I watched the entire proceedings? ML

-- MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), June 15, 2002.

MaryLu,
The words "Zero Tolerance" were a sort of glitzy, PR term invented by the media (or some lay Catholics). It's the kind of language that you would not see in a formal ecclesiastical document. That's why you didn't hear it from bishops. Instead other terminology was used.

Have you read the documents they passed? I provided you with links to the texts on another thread.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), June 16, 2002.

We have to stop instructing MaryLu; only yesterday, after my efforts were exhausted in the Cardinal Law thread, she said to me:

''Dear Eugene, Thank you for your advice. However, as I posted on another thread, this is not an issue I wish to discuss any further. May God's justice prevail and may our Bishops listen to His voice guiding them and directing their path in this regard. MaryLu --''All to which I say: Amen.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), June 16, 2002.

Eugene - your stating YOUR instruction(s) to MaryLu etc: is another sign of your snese of arrogance and power.

-- Jean Bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), June 16, 2002.

Diane may not realise it, but bishops and cardinals are not subject to ''removal'' If a number of these prelates were guilty of aiding and abetting, they may be censured in some way. They may have to make personal public confessions. They may lose their diocese or arcdioces, and be sent elsewhaer to work in the Church.

There's also the reverse possibility. A number may not be certifiably guilty of the offenses being placed at their doorsteps. In a just and lawful society, all of us are considered innocent till proven guilty.

I believe to date (at last) the Church is beginning to face all the responsibilities in a real, concerted effort by all the hierarchy. Many of the faithful, (some like Diane), want to see ''heads roll''.

In a way this reflects the post-Revolutionary mentality of the 18th century. ''To the guillotine; no mercy.''

As a Catholic, I must denounce this kind of blindness. God is involved here, and we must ALL pray for His Will to be done, NOT our will. God bless you Diane. Just have faith in Him.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), June 16, 2002.

Dear Jean:
Merci beaucoup; you are too kind. May your cup of love and understanding overflow, long after mine is turned upside-down. Ciao!

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), June 16, 2002.

Thank you, but I received my 'instructions' from today from two priests of a very Holy Order - priests who think the abusers should be defrocked, and removed from the church forever because they have committed the worst sin against Jesus Christ that a priest can do.

I do not need your instructions, thank you. There are times Jesus wants us to get angry, good and angry, and defend the helpless victims and I will do just that..

If you remember a President of the United States resigned from office for being 'involved' in a coverup (Watergate) He did not do the actual deed of breaking in....but he knew about it, and covered it up.

Accept the fact that some, not all, of your Bishops and Cardinals knew about it, did nothing about it, all these years...all these years....they should go!!! They should humble themselves, and resign, go to a missionary or something and see how the rest of the world lives....certainly not like they do!

The Pope should send them to India to help the Sisters of the Poor - Mother Teresa's sisters....they could always use the help.

ML

-- MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), June 16, 2002.

Dear MaryLu:
All you're proving is that you feel hatred. Hatred for all who were in any way involved with some offenses by perverted priests. --You already want to prescribe the appropriate punishment; even in advance of any verdict.

Why haven't YOU gone to serve with the Sisters of the Poor in India? Too dainty?

You seem unwilling to listen to others. If we appeal to your reason, we've ''attacked you for speaking the truth'' We knew the truth without your grandstanding, MaryLu. It's a no-brainer.

Come down to earth, won't you? Pray tonight, for the souls of those who have lost grace. Make yourself pray for the salvation of errant priests and brothers in God's service. That would be real charity; not busting your buttons on the Internet.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), June 16, 2002.

MaryLu,

May I ask what "Holy Order" the priests belong to? I'm just curious, I have no ulterior motives.

Mateo

-- (MattElFeo@netscape.net), June 17, 2002.

Dear Eugene,

I do not fee hatred. I feel disgust over the whole thing. My prayer life is my business. As far as going to India, I would love to but I have a family to take care.

Too dainty??? You have no idea what I do for charity and it is none of your business. I do not think you are too charitable with your words, Eugene. You are not very kind.

You may want to share your sentiments with some priests I know who feel the same way. You are acting like I am alone with my feelings. I share them with many.

MaryLu

-- MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), June 17, 2002.

As for my not listening to others, who are you Eugene, that I should listen to you?

I will listen to those whom have authority to speak. I guess you would say the same thing to the priest who said mass yesterday at the Padre Pio Shrine? His thoughts were the same as mine and so were the thoughts of my confessor.

I am not condeming all Bishops, and I am certainly not condeming all priests. However, Eugene, my trust in those who are leaders of our church have been diminished and I don't have to answer to you or anyone else on this forum.

MaryLu

-- MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), June 17, 2002.

Don't accuse the rest of us (and me) of ''attacking'' you for speaking the truth. That is a lie.

Furthermore, you say things here which maybe you think are ''exposing'' the truth; as if nobody but you could see the truth!

You haven't said ONE SINGLE THING in your posts that we all don't realise without your hysterics. We KNOW child molestation is a crime; you didn't REVEAL this. We KNOW priests and bishops did many dishonorable and criminal things; and we ALL want justice done. You haven't brought it to anybody's attention. It's public knowledge; but you insist on HARPING on it.

Give it a rest, MaryLu. Don't be spiteful at me. I want you to be calm, to PRAY, and to have FAITH. That's all.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), June 17, 2002.

MaryLu

Give it a rest, MaryLu. Don't be spiteful at me. I want you to be calm, to PRAY, and to have FAITH. That's all. ---------------------------------------------------------------------

This is exactly what I have been trying to say from day one to you. Gene is absolutly correct in what he is saying for we need to Pray and LET the bishops do their GOD - Given work. It is going to take time. Time is on GODS side and it is needed to be also on our side too. You cannot sqeeze juice out of a rock. It takes patience and "GOD'S WILL" will be done soon. You are losing trust in GOD and don't let that happen, for satan LOVES to prey on impatient people.

Blessings.

-- Fred Bishop (FCB@heartland.com), June 17, 2002.

Mary Lu,

Is it safe to say that your hatred or disgust is aimed at the sin and not the sinner?

I don't hate the people who have committed these sins, nor the one's who "covered" it up, I hate the sins they committed, and want justice to prevail for all.

I guess what I really want to say Mary Lu, is that I understand where you are coming from.

Hold on to your faith and pray, pray, pray.

God Bless you,

-- Kathy (sorry@nomail.com), June 17, 2002.

Dear MaryLu,

Please note that I do not 'hate' anyone and I am deeply sorry if I gave that impression. Do I hate the sin? Of course, I do - just like I hate my own sins and I can be very hard on myself belive me.

I will take a rest from this topic now - I 'promise.' I get the feeling this topic is going to be one of those that falls into the same category as politics or abortion where discussions can get heated, emotional, and are better off not discussed at all or discussed with people one feels safe with - one who knows why I react to this situation the way I do.

The reactions are so varied.

God Bless, Kathy

MaryLu :)

-- MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), June 17, 2002.

Dear Kathy,

My last post should say: Dear Kathy, I addressed it to myself! :) Sorry, about that.

-- MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), June 17, 2002.