My country tisn't free : LUSENET : Freedom! self reliance : One Thread

I thought that you should all have an opportunity to see what the Department of Pre Crime is beginning to do...Sorry, but it is depressing to see this stuff come to fruition.

FBI Begins Visiting Libraries

By Christopher Newton Associated Press Writer Monday, June 24, 2002; 5:38 PM

WASHINGTON The FBI is visiting libraries nationwide and checking the reading records of people it suspects of having ties to terrorists or plotting an attack, library officials say.

The FBI effort, authorized by the antiterrorism law enacted after the Sept. 11 attacks, is the first broad government check of library records since the 1970s when prosecutors reined in the practice for fear of abuses.

The Justice Department and FBI declined to comment Monday, except to note that such searches are now legal under the Patriot Act that President Bush signed last October.

Libraries across the nation were reluctant to discuss their dealings with the FBI. The same law that makes the searches legal also makes it a criminal offense for librarians to reveal the details or extent.

"Patron information is sacrosanct here. It's nobody's business what you read," said Kari Hanson, director of the Bridgeview Public Library in suburban Chicago.

Hanson said an FBI agent came seeking information about a person, but her library had no record of the person. Federal prosecutors allege Global Relief Foundation, an Islamic charity based in the Chicago suburb, has ties to Osama bin Laden's terror network

The University of Illinois conducted a survey of 1,020 public libraries in January and February and found that 85 libraries had been asked by federal or local law enforcement officers for information about patrons related to Sept. 11, said Ed Lakner, assistant director of research at the school's Library Research Center.

The libraries that reported FBI contacts were nearly all in large urban areas.

In Florida, Broward County library director Sam Morrison said the FBI had recently contacted his office. He declined to elaborate on the request or how many branch libraries were involved.

"We've heard from them and that's all I can tell you," Morrison said. He said the FBI specifically instructed him not to reveal any information about the request.

The library system has been contacted before. A week after the Sept. 11 attacks, the FBI subpoenaed Morrison to provide information on the possible use of computer terminals by some of the suspected hijackers in the Hollywood, Fla., area.

In October, investigators revisited the county's main library in Fort Lauderdale and also checked a regional library in Coral Springs.

At least 15 of the 19 hijackers had Florida connections.

The process by which the FBI gains access to library records is quick and mostly secret under the Patriot Act.

First, the FBI must obtain a search warrant from a court that meets in secret to hear the agency's case. The FBI must show it has reason to suspect that a person is involved with a terrorist or a terrorist plot far less difficult than meeting the tougher legal standards of probable cause, required for traditional search warrants or reasonable doubt, required for convictions.

With the warrant, FBI investigators can visit a library and gain immediate access to the records.

Judith Krug, the American Library Association's director for intellectual freedom, said the FBI was treading on the rights it is supposed to be upholding.

"It's unfortunate because these records and this information can be had with so little reason or explanation," Krug said. "It's super secret and anyone who wants to talk about what the FBI did at their library faces prosecution. That has nothing to do with patriotism."

Krug tells worried librarians who call that they should keep only the records they need and should discard records that would reveal which patron checked out a book and for how long.

She is frustrated by the hate mail she says she receives when she speaks out against the Patriot Act.

"People are scared and they think that by giving up their rights, especially their right to privacy, they will be safe," Krug said. "But it wasn't the right to privacy that let terrorists into our nation. It had nothing to do with libraries or library records."

Some libraries said they will still resist government efforts to obtain records.

Pat McCandless, assistant director for public services for Ohio State University's libraries, said, "State law and professional ethics say we do not convey patron information and that is still our stance.

"To the best of our ability, we would try to support patron confidentiality," she said. 2002 The Associated Press

-- Doreen (, June 24, 2002



-- arron chivers (, January 22, 2003.

aaron. now you just get off the computer before your mommy catches you. do we need to tell the whole world that you are only 12 years old? and stop all your cryin about not getting your allowance.

-- ralphy (, January 22, 2003.

Hi, Doreen,

I share you concern. In fact, I've started the ball rolling to get the City Council of my town to join the grassroots effort which is taking hold all over the country to try to stop all this bs.

Check out this site:

27 cities and towns (and counties) have passed resolutions protecting the civil liberties of their 4,184,529 residents. Many more are in progress.

Congratulations to this week's newest addition: San Francisco, Calif.

I challenge each of you to get off the dime and join the movement. We seem unable to sway the feds, as they are a bunch of "Chickenhawks", so let's go at it from the bottom up!


BTW, I know someone who has been hassled by "the feds" (she didn't tell me which agency, if they even bothered to tell HER).

She basically told the creeps that she "has no records" as she destroys all the records she can so that she will not be forced to share them with big bro! :)

-- jumpoff joe (, January 27, 2003.

<< I challenge each of you to get off the dime and join the movement.>>

JOJ what would I be able to do if I wanted to do something. I'm in the state of( Tennessee ), where I never in the 6 years of living here met anyone who's done something for anyone except themself , give or take one or two good hearted fried brain rednecks usually in their mid to late 50's , from a generation of people who believed they could make the world a better place but gave up. The only law anyone here would be active in changing , if they knew how , would be the law that makes it a crime to sleep with a 14 year girl. Very low morals here in the south east.

So anything I'd be able to do , to keep freedom from becoming something future generations will read about ( if it's permitted in the future ) in history books would have to be something I could do alone.

Since I value freedom , but dislike the East Coast political scene that seems to consist of the favor for a favor BS .What am I able to do ? And what suggestions or examples could you give ?

-- Steve (, January 28, 2003.

Hi, Steve,

Sorry you feel so isolated. I find that here in conservative, small town, Grants Pass, Oregon, there are people coming out of the woodwork to speak out against this big brother action, from all parts of the political spectrum. There are also plenty of folks who think we're anti-american for exercising our right to free speech (as long as it lasts)

Here are two suggestions: keep up with some of the issues. Go to the Bill of Rights Defense Committtee's website at

There may be some ideas there for you. At least you can see what some of us have been doing (check out my draft resolution :)

Read some non-mainstream news sites. I recommend and

for starters. At least if you are well informed, you can help those who are stuck with Bush Cartel owned media outlets see other perspectives.

Second, and this may seem insignificant, but every individual voice adds up, call 1-800-839-5276. This will connect you to a switchboard in Washington, DC, where you will be pleasantly greeted, and connected to any Senator or Congressman you ask for. I've called and given my positions on this many times, to many legislators. I've called as many as fifteen of these folks in as many minutes. When you get done with one, hit redial, and you'll be right back at the switchboard, asking for another.

Some of these URLs also offer information about what's going on in various areas; who knows? you may find out you're not as alone as you think!

Good luck!


-- jumpoff joe (, January 29, 2003.

Joe said :" Sorry you feel so isolated Steve ".

I don't feel isolated Joe , ....What I do feel is I'm becoming an unresponsible citizen out of the lack of understanding of what I am capable of doing , and what I need to do to have an active role instead of just rubber necking while freedoms disolve in front of me.

I'm not the sit idle and complain type . I want to physically do something.Unless I understand how I can be affective in preserving freedoms , I'm just another lame citizen leaving the dirty work for someone else to do while wanting to reap the benefits ( freedoms )of other people's hard work.

My motives are selfish.I like to think of myself as being an honorable person, without lie-ing to myself.

Thanks for taking the time to post what you have . I'm going to take time to read all that you posted.Already a friend of my daughter was here reading over my shoulder asking what I was doing on the computor. He's 22 years old. I told him a little about you and what you were into.He also seemed interested in knowing about this subject and wants me to explain to him what's on those web sites you posted. I haven't checked them out yet but I will tonight.

I'm just letting you know your time posting was well spent .I'll give you feed back after I read those web sites.

Joe I was a squatter on BLM land in Takilma for 2 years 1978-80. I lived in a place called Alan's Gulch in a well built cabin right on the banks of the illonois river.With a bunch of radical neighbors who believed we had rights to live on public lands. We were non - alcoholic people who grew our own gardens and tried to live as independant as possible. I mention the non alcohol because there was a big group of people in Takilma who did nothing but drink alcohol and steal from the stores in town and this gave us all ( from Takilma ) a bad name in town .After I left Takilma to do the same in the caribbean , I heard the police burned down the 8 cabins that were there.

Thanks again , Steve

-- Steve (, January 30, 2003.

Nice to hear your story, Steve; "T Town" is alive and well, although I don't believe the store is there anymore.

I've known a lot of folks from Takilma over the years, and suspect we have common mutual friends. Do you know the folks from The Meadows? How about the Takilma Clinic? One of my best friends is a Physicians Assistant at the Clinic, which has gotten lots bigger and more modern.

The Meadows folks lost their suspension bridge over the Illinois River a few years ago, but built a much better one four or five years ago-a real Cadilac of suspension bridges!

Takilma will never-I hope-be anything like most other communities; it's a real anomoly.

I moved to this area in 1975, and love it, although I'm north of Grants Pass, and it's nothing like Takilma.

Did you know John Halinan, who with his wife Delia, built a little cabin on Forest Circus land on the banks of the East Fork Illinois a few miles upstream from Takilma? Delia was formerly married to "Lou-Dah" of "Doo-Dah". Remember the Dome School?

I'm waxing nostalgic now. Sorry folks. Nostalgia isn't what it used to be...


Keep me posted, Steve, and please tell us about your experiences in the Caribbean! I've been to the Caribbean shores of Quintana Roo, Belize and Costa Rica. Paradise, in some respects.

So where

-- jumpoff joe (, February 01, 2003.

The Meadows people, they were up river right next to Alans Gultch,Our next door neighbors sort of ....I think they had a 200 acre parcel devided into private ownerships of about 10 acres each . I didn't know any of the people in the Meadows to well .A lot of people in Takilma kind of kept to themselves until they got to know you and what you were about .The people in Alans Gultch kind of did also. But I was invited through a friend named Gilbert ( who died last summer), to a annual picnic they had every fall at the Meadows. He knew them well as he seemed to know everyone in Takilma , I think he moved there in 1970 . I was on the shy side back then and I really didn't talk much with anyone at the Meadows fall event except the people I came there with . The Meadows people had a common area where they had a community garden and a open over head sheltered area with picnic tables. At least they did back then .Had I stayed in T longer I most likely would have gotten to know them better.They were set up well and I'm sure I could have learned a lot from them . I knew of the suspension bridge I don't remember if I've seen it? I know I never crossed it. They ( meadows )were on the same side of the river as Alans Gultch so when I went to the picnic we just walked up river . Some things are kind of fuzzy .It was 23 years ago , so I don't remember a lot of details .

Like I said Gilbert knew everyone , and everyone in T knew Gilbert, although I've heard through the grapevine that in his last few years he was experiencing unharnessed brain activity .He was a little burnt .If it wasn't for Gilbert I wouldn't had been living in Alans Gultch.And had one of the most memorable experieces of my life.

I use to ( wade ) cross the illonios river in the winter time even when tempertures had fallen to single digits ( half naked with my pants and shoes in a plastic bag) to go to the Takilma co-op,where I was a volunteer produce worker so I could receive a discount on my food and to help keep it going.They had a wooden bench in the front of the store with the words inscribed " Tall Tales ".I think a guy named Delbert made and donated the bench ?

I once stepped into a sink hole up to my neck while crossing the illonios river in the winter and got caught in the rivers strong current and took a good fast swim as I tried swimming toward the banks to grab onto something before hypothermia kicked in or drowning.Talk about a rush.

It was a place like no other.I remember a lady named Shannon running the cash register at the T food coop topless because she had bad sunburn on her chest.And guys were giving her complements that had her raging mad.I knew better not to say anything or make eye contact where she didn't want it.I did notice her sunburn though. You don't see this stuff going on at the local Wal-Mart super centers.

A lot of the lifestyle I live today is the result of infuences from my short stay in Takilma. But I and the two others who came with me to live there also contributed back to Takilma and I know we left some positive influences behind.One of the persons I came there with brought a book called :Survival into the 21st Century ,it was the bible of natural living to us.......... ..... and to the others who read and borrowed it .We brought a concept there to some friends we knew ,that I hear some are still living by ,the Raw Food vegetarian concept.Which I went on a diet for a year ( after leaving Takilma ) eating 90% raw foods.

The book ( 21st century )influenced me not by reading it but by living with the ones who did .And also was the influence that led me to giving a lecture on growing food organically at the Hippocrates Health Institue in Palm Beach co. Fl. in 91' which I went to the HHI actually looking for work ( a job ) as I had no experience at giving a lecture and was surprised when I was asked to do so.>> ...I also did a lecture on oragincs at Palm Beach Island elemtary school in the town of Palm Beach. .Which gave me a feeling of purpose , which I lack living in Tennessee.The closest thing to organics where I live now is fried pork fat and turnip greens . YUK ! I miss being involved in a community I live in.Everything here is done in churches...I don't go to church.

If you think you want to hear my Caribbean experiences I will post them. . Some of which stories include a 4 year old girl ( my daughter )climbing 50 ft coconut trees to get these tastey treats down ,trying to mimic the actions of her dad. Who's been accused of being a nut himself.. Child services would have loved me here in the U.S..I never told her to climb I just had trouble preventing her from doing so .I still have some pictures of her climbing coconut trees and twisting coconuts free.

It was paradise in a lot of ways. I lived in the mountains at the base of a 3,500 ft mountain in the rain forrest which had no one living up mountain from me and most of the land was a reserve. I used to hike the mountains for hours finding wild yams and roots , bread fruits, another type of bread fruit that had chessnut type nuts in it ,mangoes , citrus and many different fruits most wouldn't know or recognize here in the states , I grew papayas , calabasas , (pumpkin ) , and american vegies , I sold eggs , vegetables and meat goats for $$.I also stop being a vegetarian while there.

I moved there and lived alone for 2 years and lived on 3.5 hectors . I think a hector is an acre and a half ? I had to walk a half mile ? from the paved road to the cabin I built ,and had an ocean view from my land. There are down sides to paradise.It can be violent sometimes .

Amazingly I had electric after 2 years there without. The electric poles were drug up the mountain with ropes by the electric company employees.And they dug the holes for the poles with a shovel that had a real long handle and a strange curve to the blade. By hand. I had to bring up a refrigerator to my cabin by tieing 2 bamboo poles to the sides of it and me and 3 other men holding an end of the pole and walking up the steep slippery mountain side.It was easier than I though it would be .

I won't say what island I was living on , on the forum. But in private I have no problem with saying which one .It was in the West Indies.

Lately my life seems boring in Tenn. compared to the other places I've lived and I wait anxiously , for my place here to sell and move on to a life with some stimuli.

-- Steve (, February 03, 2003.

Hi, Steve,

Great tales! I enjoy hearing stories of Takilma, as I have known so many there, mostly, unfortunately, not all that well. But I have known a few folks from there well, the PA I mentioned, who's a very good friend.

The bridge over the Illinois: you'd have seen it; perhaps it wasn't built yet, when you left. It begins on the shoulder of the main road which runs from Takilma out towards Dunn Creek, Sunstar Country Club (remember those folks?), and the upper E.F. in Calif. Since the bridge got wiped out by one "flood", it's much higher now.

So you did not have access to Alan Gulch when you lived there? I never went there, but know where it is.

I didn't realize the Meadows folk had split their property into ten acre lots. Could be. They do have a communal garden. I used to work for the Forest Circus, and my boss and I had been invited to come see their place next time we were monitoring Scotch Gulch, the Meadows' water supply. When we dropped by, there were several buck-naked people out in the veggie garden, weeding and what not. My boss's face got so red I thought he was going to blow a gasquet! A year or so later, I was priveledged to be able to do some measurements for the Meadows folks, to help them in designing a microhydro system for electricity, which they've been using now for maybe twenty years.

These folks have a booth at the Oregon Country Faire right down the way from the one my copilot has had for about twenty-five years. Mark and Beth sell baskets they weave; they are made from Oregon Ash trees. Over the years they've gotten better and better at finding the trees which are suitable for peeling into long, skinny strips. These baskets are real works of art!

You've had a lot of interesting life experiences, Steve! The time in the West Indies sounds fascinating; never been there, but have been on a coconut plantation in Costa Rica. Lovely place, lovely people. Oh, a hectare, or hectarea in Spanish, is about 2.5 acres. Equal to a square 100 meters on a side.

So, how long has your place been on the market? How'd you end up in Tennessee, anyhow? lt can't be that you lived on "The Farm", I don't think, from the description of the people you've NOT met in six years....

Hope your place sells soon, and you can continue on your voyage...

Cheers, JOJ

-- jumpoff joe (, February 04, 2003.

I once seen two guys walking down the illonios river coming from up river looking for a water or hydo generator. I don't know if they were from the Meadows or not ..They ask me , " Did you see a generator go buy , the current got strong and washed it down river " I said nope .They looked like they were embarassed to ask but they did anyway .It was a unusual questian to ask somebody .. .They said a rope or cable that held it from going down river broke .And they continued walking down river .That was in 79' or 80 ".Have you ever heard of them losing one down river ?

-- Steve (, February 05, 2003.

< <" So, how long has your place been on the market? How'd you end up in Tennessee, anyhow? lt can't be that you lived on "The Farm", I don't think, from the description of the people you've NOT met in six years.... " >>

My place has been on the market for about a year but wasn't put on multiple listings until about a month ago. A few months ago I' had seconds thoughts on moving because I'm worried the money I'd get for this place may not get me another one like it or even another place., I have an inspiring mountain view of N.C. when the air pollution count is low ,behind my house ( land )is nation park land ,so even though I have only 4 acres I can walk my goats or hike for hours .And have some privacy . I also put a lot into my gardens , I finally have excellent top soil from composted hays and goat droppings. and even grow vegetables through the winter with a small green house .I have a south exposure with plenty of sun for growing foods .I feel set up as far as food production goes .

<<" How'd you end up in Tennessee" >>

After leaving the caribbean 10 days after getting hit with hurricane Hugo ( wind is cool ) I moved to Florida near family members . Made money to move to the North West and buy land , but after a few vacations camping out in Tennessees smoky mountains I thought if I moved here in Tnn. I could drive down to visit family memebrs in a days drive and still be in the mountains.I didn't research this place well enough before I moved here .I was anxious to get off the flat lands of Fl. and back to the mountains .Any mountains .

<< " lt can't be that you lived on "The Farm", " >>

I know of the Farm.Heard about it in the 70's.I think it may have been nice to be there in the beginning when it first started.

I heard through the grapevine , but I don't know how accurate this is, that the Steve Gaskin Farm went yuppie ??? Who hasn't ??... I was told that all the original members that stayed on the farm get an annual salary ,or something .Like a co-op buisness. They've become Tofu tycoons.I was told by a women who claimed she lived in the area near them which is, I think a 4 hr drive from here, it's in central Tennessee ,I'm east . She said they drive SUV's and Volvos now.She sounded very envious ( jealous ) but I see it as they've worked hard and achieved success . I don't know if what I was told , is true or not . They do buisness supposingly using enviormentally sound methods.Organic farming .And they provide a quality , well liked product ,Tofu . At least I like it .

I tried my first Tofu in Oregon . A person had to fish out a Tofu block from a 5 gallon bucket in a liquid ,usually sold at a food coop.I still eat tofu a few times a week in vegetable soups with miso broth and have had some hillbilly kids try the stuff and they've like it a lot ..I'm spreading some traditions here other than the Mc'burgers all the youth seem addicted to .And now Wal-Mart super centers sell the stuff. So maybe there are reasons I'm here that I just don't notice cause I'm searching for self gratification . I now have learned to research a place well before I move there . And rent first for a year before I buy land or a home .And get to know my surrounings before a major purchase.

I've been thinking of Brazil. I know very little about it except there are big communities ( neighborhoods )of convention mid western U.S, farmers who have been moving down there because the land in the U.S. mid west is too exspensive for farming and is turning into sub- divisions.

Conventional farming means the use of pesticides through arial spraying . Something I know I want to avoid.So I am reasearching this well . I was planning on making a visit as soon as I sold this place. But it's up in the air .I'm concerd about the language barrier .Potuguese.

I've been also thinking of a move to the Pacific Nothwest ( boy I'm rest-less ).But I'll decide after I sell this place where I'm moving to next. The next place will need to be permenant. I don't like fixing up the land and then moving , leaving all the hard work behind.I'm getting old , I think.

Hey JOJ , I only tell the pleasant sides of my stories . .Any tradgedies , personal failures ,bumps and bruises I gotten along the way, I usually only tell to those who ask and usually not on a forum.I don't want to depress anyone who has their own hardships , which we all do .

One thing I've kept in the closet for awhile and am starting to speak openly about now is ,in 1995 I was diagnosed with mulitple sclorosis.Finally , something that will slow me down a bit . Since I believe I've had it at an early age and if it wasn't for stress caused by a job that brought the symptoms to a peak and the good insurance I had that allowed me to get an MRI, I'd just think I was born with weak muscles and tire easiliy.Actully it's been a blessing because it's kept me from conventional jobs most of my life and is part of what made me become a back to the lander I believe.

By speaking openly about it lately I've learned information about MS that the doctors didn't tell me.I knew so little about it from the doctor that diagnosed me with MS that I was seeing another doctor for pain in my arms that I thought was due to an occupation hazad of my last job . I didn't even tell that doctor that I was diagnosed with MS thinking it had nothing to do with it . This other doctor was trying to figure why I had such bad nerve damage in my arms.But the low budget state insurance I had wouldn't cover treatment for futher test.

That's one reason I dislike toxic enviorments so much and try to eat mostly organic foods and like to raise them myself..If I eat chemically grown food the symptoms are stronger.And slow me down. From another forum I was told that glutens in grains should be advoided . And that means organic grown grains also.In the Caribbean where I really felt healthy , the healthiest I've ever felt, grains except rice were not part of the daily menu. I ate mostly roots as a staple along with fruits and meat.I did eat chocolate Haagen -Daz ice cream .A man needs a balanced diet .And a small selection of what ever typical vegies from the U.S that were able to grow in that climate.

I mention MS now because I found when I do mention the MS , I find others responding back with information that has been helpful and maybe I can share what little I've learned with others who seek this infromation .The doctors so far have given me nothing more than a difenite diagnosis, which at least has helped in giveng me a starting point .

It's all part of the adventure.

-- Steve (, February 05, 2003.

< " The bridge over the Illinois: you'd have seen it; perhaps it wasn't built yet, when you left. " >.

I know the bridge was there when I lived there.I just don't remember it.I can picture a bridge in my head that was about 2 feet wide with rope and wood .But I don't know if this is something I remember from another place or there or just something I just imagine in my head.So I 'm safer saying I don't remember.Short term memory loss was more common in my younger days than it is today .

< " So you did not have access to Alan Gulch when you lived there? I never went there, but know where it is. " >>

There was a back way in called the high road and a road called the low road.

It was a rutted road that was only accessable in the drier months.And I've only seen 4 wheel drive once or twice come in that way. I walked it once when the river was too high to cross and it was a looooong walk, I think it came out on O'brian road ???.

There was a short way to town when the river was too high to cross , it was through private property of a man named Rev .Row or Roe. He didn't like or let people go through his property even though it was nowhere near his house. He had what was called the compound. All fenced off with high fences and barb wire. Have you ever seen this place ? It had lights and was lit up at night.It looked like a mini prison.? .

I also remember when they had free movies in the summer and the screen was the side of a barn .They showed the movie Robinhood ,which seemed to be a hero to the people of takilma , staring Earl Flinn. And bob hope and bing crosby in " on the road to morraco". Takilma ( josephine co ) also had a sheriff named bebbs or bibbs. People in takilma didn't like the sheriff. Just like in the Robinhood movie he was seen as the bad guy .

-- Steve (, February 05, 2003.

Read all about the mania of Takilma in the upcoming book " Aunt Frenzy".The HIGH life ain't nearly as high as seems.

-- ONE Who KNOWS (ONE Who KNOWS, February 07, 2003.


I never mentioned the bad parts of Takilma. Like I said above, I only tell the good parts of stories unless I'm asked .I figured JOJ knows what really goes on there ( The Mania )that I haven't mentioned.

There were a high presentage of people who've died violent deaths in Takilma ,there are thieves that break into your home when your in town because the unemployment rate is desperately high ..The good people stayed hidden to themselves and had to gain your trust , or they'd have nothing to do with you . There were heads of 3 people they found in the illionios river before I moved there from the result of some loggers getting drunk and having a good old time.Loggers are big, mean and like to fight for entertainment.I don't know if this still goes on today.I'm sure there is residual affects from that time in the present .

In winter, not only does it rain everyday, the sun rise is at 9:00 am and the sun seemed to set at 3:00 pm, causing anyone who didn't have big money to spend winter months in Hawaii or Maui beach, to become super depressed from lack of daylight hours.Some of the grouchiest people I've met live in Oregon. The summers are hotter than HELL itself.August 10th 1981 it was 115 degress in CJ at 9:30am.I don't know what the noon tempeture was that day. But it was the hottest temputure I ever felt outside of an oven.It was one of those sun spot or solar flare dazs.

There are many men who look like,act like, and speak like , Charles Manson.And seem highly mentally disturbed.It is almost impossible to make a living there , yet eveything cost so much because of the strict enviormental laws.

I must of had good reason to leave, because it looks real pretty there.I also must of had good reason not to return.I've had once got thrown out of my cabin by 3 alcoholics on a cold clear winter night.That's why I ,til this day ,don't like drinkers.I couldn't call the police because I was a squatter and had no legal rights to that cabin. I had to fight them the next morning to get them out of my cabin...When they threw me out the night before , they called me " a little girly vegetarian "because of my thin build and knowlege that I was a vegetarian , one of them was an ex- logger.and was a big mean guy ...Those were the words that fueled my anger that had me attack them in the morning at sunrise like an Indian Warrier. I also gained a reputation that day as a person not to be taken advantage of.And how I really dislike bullys and would give a bully a fight he'll never forget. A friendly ,compassionate ,peaceful person should never be mistaken for a coward.

I can write a book just from the wild adventures I had there in the 2 short years I lived there.But no one would care or read it.Or believe it.

And I don't know who is mentioning" Aunt Frenzy " but I thought I'd spare JOJ all the negatives that go on in Takilma, I'm sure if he's been there and knows the place , he also knows the wild and commonly violent stuff that goes on there.I'm sure he has many years of good and bad stories he could tell.Of what went on in the past and present ??I don't know what goes on there today , but get word through the grapevine of happenings to friends I've had there.

Giberts death being one of the things I've heard.Which really bummed me out . Without Gilbert, who knew everyone in Takilma , I would have never survived there more than a month. I was 19 years old , he was in his 30's and was a half crazy Veitnam vet who had like-able qualities about him and a lot of the same beliefs I had.He was a hard worker , diliked theives with a passion and didn't like the alcoholic and would advoid speaking with one . It was him who made it possible for me to stay ,where I was eventually acepted and brought into Alans Gulch. Outsiders were usually highly discouraged from staying in that town.And not liked.

I did learn not to fear death which felt like it could come without warning there, and this has given me the inspiration to live in other parts of the world (the caribbean ). No other gringos would live in the area I lived in. They stayed where the gringos clustered together , to be safe . This was how I got my land in the caribbean for so cheap. three hecters .which is close to ,I believe 5 acres , JOJ says it's more. And in the caribbean I've had to duck from razor sharp machetes being swung at me a few times.And I'm suprised I lived there as long as I did without being killed. I can tell some wild stories of that place but I spare the negatives .All the good adventures are high risk areas. I want to go to the Amazon next. This is supposingly a high risk area also. The only draw back I see is I can't take my goast with me and I've grown attached to them.I also feel this would be the last and ultimate adventure and think I wouldn't come back from this one, but it would be like no other.

So lets hear about " AUNT FRENZY" ,ONE WHO KNOWS tell me what yoou think I don't know of the crazy place where Lunatics cluster together, to be one big insane family.Never mined ,I'd only believe it if I'd ave seen it with my own eyes.

" When a fear becomes strong enough, it is like another being within you who fights to stay alive. It is not you who will die. . . It is your fear." - Kwai Chang Caine from the Kung Fu TV series

-- S (, February 07, 2003.

My main reason for leaving Oregon is a goory and deeply horrible tale . I have thought at first not to post it here. It's extremely frightening and has scared many brave men,young and old who I've told this tale to.

The squeemish should not read any futher for many have cringed at the thought of it happening to them.Especially here in Tennessee where the available single women out number the available single men 8 to 1.

I couldn't find a girlfriend.

The other reason for leaving was I was reading National Geographic magazines in the middle of winter huddled by a wood stove on a cold day and saw pictures of tropical beaches with coconut palms and blue colored crystal clear warm ocean water ( it looked warm even in the pictures )and I thought . If I lived there ,I'd never have to cut , split and haul another piece of fire wood for the rest of my life. And would never feel cold again.

a couple years latter I was there.

It was better than California Dreaming on a winters Day .

I am much stronger now from all my travel adventures and actaully enjoy cutting splitting and hauling fire wood.A good chainsaw makes it easier and more enjoyable . So does having a woodstove that doesn't leak.

-- Steve (, February 07, 2003.

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