Who can become a priest?

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Can anyone train to become a priest as long as they are Catholic and have recieved all the sacraments necessary, or is there some sort of strict moral requirements regarding past behaviour? I mean could a serial rapist become a priest... whats the standard? Im not wording my question very well but does the Church consider your past behaviour in regard to your likelyhood to be trusted and respected as a priest or if we ask for forgivness and truely mean it can anyone be accepected? As you might have realised I have no idea at all about this. Im not seriously considering it(surely there is an IQ test!) but just curious, you know do they prefer virgin men, who havent been corrupted etc etc? Thanks and Blessings Courtenay

-- kiwi (csisherwood@hotmail.com), July 15, 2002

Answers

Kiwi - This is a very good question and I look forward to responces. For myself having been in past discernment for a four year period resulting in my not being ordained allows me to offer opinions and answers.

As to virgin men this is an area that is much like looking for a virgin female over 15 years of age these days - hard to find -. Sadly even masturbation by most Catholics is considered a sin.

The local bishop will have his desires concerns and needs made clear to the Vocation Director of the Diocese. My own travels saw me in depth asked if I had ever killed a man - my sexual activities - told in no uncertain terms I would not be financially supported in old age after retirement -. These three inane question and statement have always stuck in my mind. To the first no as to the second I told him that was between myself and my Spiritual Director - I am a closet hetro - and lastly I had access to $100,000.00 cash.

As to qualifications for priesthood none can say I feel as the bishop's in their area hold the right to decide. Eg: a recent ordination was bestowed on a former drug dealer. That bishop had faith in the man for sure.

In our diocese the younger the better is the qualification - importing of Asians to fill the void due to lack of vocations among whites - good familiy connections whatever that means these days - willingness to be subjugated to your superior is utmost - ability to bring in funds in some manner paramount.

-- Jean Bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), July 15, 2002.


Jean,

Please, Are you still streching the truth a bit here? I have never heard such things from other men who have joined the priesthood and your comments are not being worthy of our faith journey in the telling of such half-truths as you continue to do. Just because you could not qualify, does it give you permission to condemn the church as you have. I am asking you to chose your subjects in better taste and respect our faithful priests and brothers.

Blessings.

-- Fred Bishop (FCB@heartland.com), July 15, 2002.


Kiwi,

I too have discerned and found myself in a minor seminary for the length of two years. I have since left but am trying to return to the major seminary. Since I have just recently been evaluated, before I found out about my failing health, I will tell you based on what I know and myself went through.

In order to be a Catholic priest one must have all the necessary Sacraments (Baptism, First Holy Communion, and Confirmation). Of course, given these Sacraments it is assumed you have also frequented Confession and Eucharist as well, if even nominally, ie: Sunday Mass. As an aside, it is statistically reported, according to a show I saw on EWTN last night, that the majority of seminarians today were either lukewarm Catholics or converts.

The Church does not look to the past with regard to past sins, so, in that sense, they will take most anyone. HOWEVER <---- and, I want to be clear on this, those that are considered for priesthood are rigorously tested from a psychological and social standpoint. One must endure close to 5 hours of psychological testing that probes into your past, your sex life, your family life, social relationships, cognitive development and, in some sense, endurance, as well as basic question and answers on both paper and with the therapist himself. Also, the candidate is told to meet with 2 different priests on the vocations board in which he discusses social and spiritual matters with these two priests. Even after that, he is not assured a place in the seminary, since the vocations board has to meet with the vocations director (the person to call in the first place to discuss discernment and who screens candidates for the seminary) as well as the psychiatrist whom the candidate saw in order to weigh his pros and cons and decide whether to vote for that cadidate.

During this whole process there is usually a discernment retreat that candidates are encouraged to attend as well as other social functions which he is also encouraged to attend.

Even if a candidate makes into the seminary, he is watched very closely by the rector, associates, spiritual director, formation director, and anyone else he comes in contact with during the length of his stay in the seminary. They make sure he is adapting, able to handle to work load, the apostolate (a volunteer job they take which could be in a hospital, nursing home, classroom, etc.) the prayer schedule, and academics. If a man is not able to endure all of what is required of him and he seems to be unhappy or has expressed major doubts and interest in other vocations to his spiritual and formation director, amongst others, he is encouraged to take some time away to further discern if God is indeed calling him to the priesthood.

All that said, keep in mind that this is the process one goes through in order to become a diocesan priest, that this is entry into the major seminary (one must have an undergraduate degree), and that regardless of whether or not they accept the candidate, it is ultimately God's decision and only He who calls. Men do not usually seek out a vocation to the priesthood, in fact, the majority run from it. Most vocation stories will probably consist of that running away and their desire to ignore the call. However, if is true vocation, His voice will not relent, and will only get stronger. Finally, the person will have do something, and the majority say yes. Of course, that is merely the beginning, after the yes, one needs the grace to live a holy, chaste, and humble life as a servant of God and to God's people.

One never goes into a vocations office purely by their own accord, which is why it is offensive when people view the Church as a Corporation, the Pope as the CEO, and the priest as nothing more than a pencil pusher. The Church was founded by Christ, is sustained by the Holy Spirit, and the Father constantly calls his children to be sheperds for the flock. There is nothing secular about a vocation, it is the voice of God asking more of that person, not because they are deserving, but purely because they realize how truly undeserving they really are.

God Bless

-- (sacerdos@hotpop.com), July 15, 2002.


Jean, You said: Sadly even masturbation by most Catholics is considered a sin.

How can I get in that small group where it is not considered a sin? Thanks for the chuckle.

-- Glenn (glenn@excite.com), July 15, 2002.

Fred - good to have you back and swinging away at rational thought. Yes I was asked IN DEPTH - these questions. Go figure !! Ahh reality for some is just to hard to bear.

-- Jean Bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), July 15, 2002.


Jean

Reality is truth, not fabricated stories of the type you profess to that can be easily broken down as is. You still have not really faced reality as such.

-- Fred Bishop (FCB@heartland.com), July 15, 2002.


Jmj

Jean, Fred was right to find fault with your message. It contains these improper statements:

(1) "As to virgin men this is an area that is much like looking for a virgin female over 15 years of age these days - hard to find."
Virgin males are more common than you would think, especially among men most likely to consider entering a seminary. But, anyway, Kiwi did not ask if a seminarian must be a virgin.

(2) "Sadly even masturbation by most Catholics is considered a sin."
What? "Sadly"??? Are you saying that masturbation is not sinful?

(3) "My own travels saw me in depth asked if I had ever killed a man - my sexual activities - told in no uncertain terms I would not be financially supported in old age after retirement. These three inane question and statement have always stuck in my mind."
"Inane"??? Hardly. Did you ever stop to think that questions of this kind may be required by the Code of Canon Law? And required for very good reasons? Could it be rather that your thought patterns are the "inane" thing?

(4) "In our diocese the younger the better is the qualification - importing of Asians to fill the void due to lack of vocations among whites ..."
There is no "lack of vocations among whites." There may be a lack of response by those many whom God gives vocations.

(5) "... good family connections whatever that means these days ... ability to bring in funds in some manner paramount."
Stereotypical, anti-Catholic rubbish!

Jean, I am glad that you left the seminary, as the priesthood is clearly not your vocation. In my opinion, sir, you do much damage as a mere layman. I shudder to think how much harm you would do as a priest, from the pulpit, in the confessional, etc..

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), July 18, 2002.


Hello, Kiwi.

I apologize for the length of this message, but the secment of Canon Law that provides you with a full answer to your questions is quite long. I've tried to remove passages that I think won't help you.

------------------ QUOTE from 1983 Code of Canon Law (for the Latin Tradition of the Catholic Church) ------------------------
CHAPTER II : THOSE TO BE ORDAINED

Can. 1024 Only a baptized man can validly receive sacred ordination.

Can. 1025
§1 In order lawfully to confer the orders of priesthood or diaconate, it must have been established, in accordance with the proofs laid down by law, that in the judgment of the proper Bishop or competent major Superior, the candidate possesses the requisite qualities, that he is free of any irregularity or impediment, and that he has fulfilled the requirements set out in can. 1033­­1039. Moreover, the documents mentioned in can. 1050 must be to hand, and the investigation mentioned in can. 1051 must have been carried out.
§2 It is further required that, in the judgment of the same lawful Superior, the candidate is considered beneficial to the ministry of the Church.
§3 A Bishop ordaining his own subject who is destined for the service of another diocese, must be certain that the ordinand will in fact be attached to that other diocese.

ARTICLE 1: THE REQUIREMENTS IN THOSE TO BE ORDAINED

Can. 1026 For a person to be ordained, he must enjoy the requisite freedom. It is absolutely wrong to compel anyone, in any way or for any reason whatsoever, to receive orders, or to turn away from orders anyone who is canonically suitable.

Can. 1027 Aspirants to the diaconate and the priesthood are to be formed by careful preparation in accordance with the law.

Can. 1028 The diocesan Bishop or the competent Superior must ensure that before they are promoted to any order, candidates are properly instructed concerning the order itself and its obligations.

Can. 1029 Only those are to be promoted to orders who, in the prudent judgment of the proper Bishop or the competent major Superior, all things considered, have sound faith, are motivated by the right intention, are endowed with the requisite knowledge, enjoy a good reputation, and have moral probity, proven virtue and the other physical and psychological qualities appropriate to the order to be received.

Can. 1030 The proper Bishop or the competent major Superior may, but only for a canonical reason, even one which is occult, forbid admission to the priesthood to deacons subject to them who were destined for the priesthood, without prejudice to recourse in accordance with the law.

Can. 1031
§1 The priesthood may be conferred only upon those who have completed their twenty­fifth year of age, and possess a sufficient maturity; moreover, an interval of at least six months between the diaconate and the priesthood must have been observed. Those who are destined for the priesthood are to be admitted to the order of diaconate only when they have completed their twenty­third year.
§2 ...
§3 Episcopal Conferences may issue a regulation which requires a later age for the priesthood and for the permanent diaconate.
§4 A dispensation of more than a year from the age required by §1 and 2 is reserved to the Apostolic See.

Can. 1032 ...

ARTICLE 2: PREREQUISITES FOR ORDINATION

Can. 1033 Only one who has received the sacrament of sacred confirmation may lawfully be promoted to orders.

Can. 1034
§1 An aspirant to the diaconate or to the priesthood is not to be ordained unless he has first, through the liturgical rite of admission, secured enrolment as a candidate from the authority mentioned in canon 1016 and 1019. He must previously have submitted a petition in his own hand and signed by him, which has been accepted in writing by the same authority.
§2 One who has by vows become a member of a clerical institute is not obliged to obtain this admission.

Can. 1035 ...

Can. 1036 For a candidate to be promoted to the order of diaconate or priesthood, he must submit to the proper Bishop or to the competent major Superior a declaration written in his own hand and signed by him, in which he attests that he will spontaneously and freely receive the sacred order and will devote himself permanently to the ecclesiastical ministry, asking at the same time that he be admitted to receive the order.

Can. 1037 A candidate for the permanent diaconate who is not married and likewise a candidate for the priesthood, is not to be admitted to the order of diaconate unless he has, in the prescribed rite, publicly before God and the Church undertaken the obligation of celibacy, or unless he has taken perpetual vows in a religious institute.

Can. 1038 ...
Can. 1039 ...

ARTICLE 3: IRREGULARITIES AND OTHER IMPEDIMENTS

Can. 1040 Those bound by an impediment are to be barred from the reception of orders. An impediment may be simple -- or it may be perpetual, in which case it is called an irregularity. No impediment is contracted which is not contained in the following canons.

Can. 1041 The following persons are irregular for the reception of orders:
1° one who suffers from any form of insanity, or from any other psychological infirmity, because of which he is, after experts have been consulted, judged incapable of being able to fulfill the ministry;
2° one who has committed the offence of apostasy, heresy or schism;
3° one who has attempted marriage, even a civil marriage, either while himself prevented from entering marriage whether by an existing marriage bond or by a sacred order or by a public and perpetual vow of chastity, or with a woman who is validly married or is obliged by the same vow;
4° one who has committed willful homicide, or one who has actually procured an abortion, and all who have positively cooperated;
5° one who has gravely and maliciously mutilated himself or another, or who has attempted suicide;
6° one who has carried out an act of order which is reserved to those in the order of the episcopate or priesthood, while himself either not possessing that order or being barred from its exercise by some canonical penalty, declared or imposed.

Can. 1042 The following are simply impeded from receiving orders:
1° a man who has a wife, unless he is lawfully destined for the permanent diaconate;
2° one who exercises an office or administration forbidden to clerics, in accordance with canon 285 and 286, of which he must render an account; the impediment binds until such time as, having relinquished the office and administration and rendered the account, he has been freed;
3° a neophyte [recent convert], unless, in the judgment of the Ordinary, he has been sufficiently tested.

Can. 1043 Christ's faithful are bound to reveal, before ordination, to the Ordinary or to the parish priest, such impediments to sacred orders as they may know about.

Can. 1044 ...

Can. 1045 Ignorance of irregularities and impediments does not exempt from them.

Can. 1046 Irregularities and impediments are multiplied if they arise from different causes, not however from the repetition of the same cause, unless it is a question of the irregularity arising from the commission of willful homicide or from having actually procured an abortion.

Can. 1047
§1 If the fact on which they are based has been brought to the judicial forum, dispensation from all irregularities is reserved to the Apostolic See alone.
§2 Dispensation from the following irregularities and impediments to the reception of orders is also reserved to the Apostolic See:
1° irregularities arising from the offences mentioned in can. 1041, nn. 2 and 3, if they are public;
2° an irregularity arising from the offence, whether public or occult, mentioned in can. 1041, n. 4;
3° the impediment mentioned in can. 1042, n. 1.
§3 To the Apostolic See is also reserved the dispensation from the irregularities for the exercise of an order received mentioned in can. 1041, n.3 but only in public cases, and in n. 4 of the same canon even in occult cases.
§4 The Ordinary can dispense from irregularities and impediments not reserved to the Holy See.

Can. 1048 ...

Can. 1049 §1 In a petition to obtain a dispensation from irregularities or impediments, all irregularities and impediments are to be mentioned. However, a general dispensation is valid also for those omitted in good faith, with the exception of the irregularities mentioned in can. 1041, n. 4, or of others which have been brought to the judicial forum; it is not, however, valid for those concealed in bad faith.
§2 If it is question of an irregularity arising from willful homicide or from a procured abortion, for the validity of the dispensation even the number of offences must be stated.
§3 A general dispensation from irregularities and impediments to the reception of orders is valid for all orders.

ARTICLE 4: DOCUMENTS REQUIRED AND THE INVESTIGATION

Can. 1050 For a person to be promoted to sacred orders, the following documents are required:
1° a certificate of studies duly completed ...
2" for those to be ordained to the priesthood, a certificate of the reception of the diaconate
3° for those to be promoted to the diaconate, certificates of the reception of baptism, of confirmation and of the ministries mentioned in can. 1035, and a certificate that the declaration mentioned in can. 1036 has been made, if an ordinand to be promoted to the permanent diaconate is married, a certificate of his marriage and testimony of his wife's consent.

Can. 1051 In the investigation of the requisite qualities of one who is to be ordained, the following provisions are to be observed:
1° there is to be a certificate from the rector of the seminary or of the house of formation, concerning the qualities required in the candidate for the reception of the order, namely sound doctrine, genuine piety, good moral behavior, fitness for the exercise of the ministry, likewise, after proper investigation, a certificate of the candidate's state of physical and psychological health;
2° the diocesan Bishop or the major Superior may, in order properly to complete the investigation, use other means which, taking into account the circumstances of time and place, may seem useful, such as testimonial letters, public notices or other sources of information.

Can. 1052
§1 For a Bishop to proceed to an ordination which he is to confer by his own right, he must be satisfied that the documents mentioned in can. 1050 are at hand and that, as a result of the investigations prescribed by law, the suitability of the candidate has been positively established.
§2 ...
§3 If, not withstanding all this, the Bishop has definite reasons for doubting that the candidate is suitable to receive orders, he is not to promote him.
---------------- END QUOTE ------------------

God bless you.
John

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), July 18, 2002.


Thankyou gentlemen.

Brian I am especially praying for your health, I hope you are well.

One last question does use of morning after pill = abortion in the eyes of the Church?

In regard to this impediment:

Can. 1041 4° one who has committed willful homicide, or one who has actually procured an abortion, and all who have positively cooperated;

I have one last question, does use of morning after pill = abortion in the eyes of the Church?

Blessings

-- kiwi (csisherwood@hotmail.com), July 19, 2002.


Kiwi,

I believe the definition of an abortifacent is anything that destroys the embryo once the egg has been fertilized. It isn't a very important of a question, because while the morning-after pill might not be strictly an abortifacent (as opposed to "Mephistophilis" mephipristone, RU-486), the use of either so closely resemble each other that the morning-after pill may incur self-exommunication anyway--of course, also with consideration of factors of ignorance, coercion, etc.

Whether the morning-after pill constitues a sin of grave matter is without question; whether it is canonically classified as abortion or contraception, I don't know. Whether it's appearence in someone's past life would bar someone from receiving Orders may be a question to be answered by the bishop.

-- Skoobouy (skoobouy@hotmail.com), July 19, 2002.



As a matter of fact, I just now read that the "Morning After pill" does indeed kill the fertilized embryo, by preventing it from embedding into the lining of the mother's womb. That would classify it as an abortion by any rational standard--those who market the pill deny that it is an abortion because, by their definition, the woman isn't pregnant until the embryo is embedded in the womb.

Well, shoot dang, so long as we're pushing the point of pregnancy forward, why not classify it as not starting until the 3rd trimester? Yeesh. Corporate deception at its worst.

So, yes, the morning after pill is an abortifacent.

-- Skoobouy (skoobouy@hotmail.com), July 19, 2002.


Jmj

I agree with your findings, Skoobuoy.
However, I could not say that a woman who uses the morning-after pill (or so-called emergency contraception) should consider herself excommunicated ... or that a man who once cooperated in the use of that pill should consider himself ineligible to enter a seminary.
The reason I say this is that we don't know, with any degree of certainty, that abortions actually resulted from their actions. The odds are against it, unless the sin was committed numerous times.
God bless you.
John

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), July 19, 2002.


Brian I am especially praying for your health, I hope you are well.

Thank you kiwi for your prayers, and I am doing quite well. Of course, my doctors are quite worried, as well as puzzled, how I am not on my back all day, but that matters very little to me. When God Wills it as such, then it will be, but right now, I have the same energy and stamina I had a year ago. Despite the many medications, as well as the new one (Coumadin) I am still in pretty good health. I would not go run a marathon or swim the English Channel, but I am sure if God Willed it as such, it would indeed occur. More and more I have learned to trust in the True Physician over all the others I have met in the course of one week.

Thank you kiwi and all for your continued prayers

God Bless

-- (sacerdos@hotpop.com), July 19, 2002.


I just wanted to let those that were interested know that due to the fact that I need a transplant, the seminary will not accept me for this coming year.

I guess I need to find a full-time job now. I think I really need your prayers now.

God Bless

-- (sacerdos@hotpop.com), July 20, 2002.


Brian

Ouch.. A transplant? Please accept my prayers for your needed transplant and all of the rest. You WILL be in both of our prayers each and every day..

Blessings.

-- Fred Bishop (fcb@heartland.com), July 20, 2002.



A "full-time job," Sacerdos?

If you can get along without one, please do. At worst, take a job that does not overtax you, as you wait for the news of an available heart.
Please don't kill yourself by overwork. If you will be cautious, someday you will be ordained, I believe very strongly. Your desire and determination are palpable and most admirable.

I will pray for you too.
John

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), July 20, 2002.


Thank you Fred and John for your prayers and concern. However, I must ask that you not be too concerned for me, this is what God Wills, and, therefore, it is ultimately in His hands. I have learned in this ordeal how easy it is to "play the martyr" and that is the last role I want to play. Rather, I find solace in two passages in Scripture. The first is from Matthew: "1 When he came down from the mountain, great crowds followed him; 2 and behold, a leper came to him and knelt before him, saying, "Lord, if you will, you can make me clean." 3 And he stretched out his hand and touched him, saying, "I will; be clean." and the second from Paul: 9 Why, we felt that we had received the sentence of death; but that was to make us rely not on ourselves but on God who raises the dead; 10 he delivered us from so deadly a peril, and he will deliver us; on him we have set our hope that he will deliver us again. 11 You also must help us by prayer, so that many will give thanks on our behalf for the blessing granted us in answer to many prayers." (emphasis added by me)

I have learned that I cannot stop living despite the situation I have been given. Right now I am healthy, and I am sure God has me healthy for a reason. I have been given that health, many people believe He has sustained my heart, so be it, Praise God, He has done this, should I repay Him by sitting on the couch watching t.v., or some other useless endeavor that separates me from God rather than drawing me closer? Also, the fact of the matter is any job is taxing, any job can overtax you, but I have found no job is impossible with the assistance of Christ. If one unites even the most insignificant job to the Precious Blood of Christ, it will bear fruit and you will be able to do it, despite all obstacles to the contrary.

I understand your concern and "father-like" worry for me and my ability to work, but please don't be too concerned, I know my limits and what is too overtaxing.

Thank you and God Bless

-- (sacerdos@hotpop.com), July 21, 2002.


Jmj

Back on 07/15, Jean stated: "As to virgin men [who could become priests] this is an area that is much like looking for a virgin female over 15 years of age these days -- hard to find."

On 07/18, I responded: "Virgin males are more common than you would think, especially among men most likely to consider entering a seminary."

Today, I came across the following published item:
"July 22, 2002 Reported number of teen virgins rises
"By Cheryl Wetzstein -- The Washington Times
"A decade ago, more than half of high school teens had sexual intercourse while they were in high school. Now, according to new federal data, it appears that the tables have turned, and virginal teens outnumber the sexually active ones. ... The data was released late last month in the 2001 Youth Risk Behavior Surveillance System (YRBSS) report, which asked 13,601 teens about such things as substance use, sexual behavior and physical activity.
"In 1990, the YRBSS found that 54.3 percent of teens in grades 9-12 had had sexual intercourse.
"By 2001, however, 54.4 percent of high schoolers said they had not had sex.
"The turning point occurred in the mid-1990s, right around the time the federal government started funding abstinence programs teaching teens to save sex for marriage, said Peter Brandt of Focus on the Family, a traditional values group in Colorado Springs, Colo.. 'There is no doubt that kids are responding to an unambiguous abstinence message,' he said. 'The federal Title V abstinence program is having a tremendous impact.' "'The only thing that changed in that time frame is the amount of talk and programming for abstinence until marriage,' added LeAnna Benn, director of the Teen-Aid abstinence program in Spokane, Wash., and advisory board member of the Abstinence Clearinghouse, which today begins its national conference in Washington."
God bless you.
John

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), July 22, 2002.


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