Animals and Poeple are becoming dump sites for toix waste.greenspun.com : LUSENET : Dairygoats : One Thread
What led me to search for the site I'm posting here was my sensitivity to foods grown with chemicals, seemed to increase this last year.I was getting a toxic feeling every time I ate fruits from the store, kind of like having a cold, but without cold symthoms. The toxic feeling would be felt the next morning after I ate the store fruits.I've also had these symthoms in lesser degree when eating my home raised chicken that were fed more grain than I usually do, because they are confined to a smaller area, and not free ranging a large area as usual due to a vegetable garden. I haven't gotten this feeling eating my home raised goat meat, and the difference with the goats I raise for meat is, they eat a diet of mostly sapplings ,brush , kudzu vines and weedy hay from unfertilized fields.Also my milk goats who get grains and fertilized alafala mix hay seemed to have weaker that normal offspring this year and the milk goats seem to be not wanting their grain as much as usual,like it doesn't taste good to them.They now are preferring kudzu vine over grain ? .After hearing on the forums that some goats were disformed and other problems with goats this year I came to the conclusion there may be a relation with feeds, possibly the geneticly altered ones. So I searched the computor and fed a search engine all my suspicions and found this site.I figured others would want to read this and come to their own conclusions. http://www.chem-surf.com/recycling/fertwast.html
-- SM Steve (Unreal@home.com), July 19, 2002
I'm not discounting the possibility that chemicals are behind the problems with your goats; however usually when a goat will not eat her grain the problem is that she has an imbalance in her rumen, too much acidity. Try giving your goats baking soda free choice and see if that helps. What kind of grain are you feeding, sweet feed or COB with molasses both have too much molasses which upsets the rumen.
-- Rebekah (email@example.com), July 21, 2002.
Rebekah, what is COB ? The grain I feed them is a goat ration that has molasses products in it , as it says on the label, but it's not like other goat feeds I've seen that have so much coated molasses it's sticky like the snack food Cracker Jacks.The food I give them has a dry textured small pellet.I tried , to see how they'd like 4 grain scratch feed I give my chickens. They ate a little but were still fussy . So I bought a few pounds of organicaly grown whole corn from a people food co-op.I guess it's for grinding ? They ate it with the speed of a vacum cleaner.I also tried giving them some organicly grown brown rice and oat meal . They woffed it down just as fast .But the goat feed and the scratch grain, they just nibble, like they're hungry, so they're eating it but they really don't like it.I can barley afford to feed myself organic grains.I difinitly can't afford to feed my goats people grade organic grain.I'm going to ask the feed stores around here if they can get organic feed and see if that makes a difference. I give them baking soda and loose mineral salt for goats at milking time and once in a while Probios.I'm suspecting it's something with the grain because my goats seem to have a healthy appetite, they are just not likeing the grain.Maybe it's a regional thing.I'm in the southeast , Tennessee.
-- SM Steve (Unreal@home.com), July 22, 2002.
I understand your frustration- a couple of years ago I went through the same thing regularly, and it was always the heaviest milkers that did it, too. Then after a while, nobody would eat the feed at all. I think the feed mills sometimes are not very sanitary, and stuff that a cow or horse wouldn't notice gets rejected by goats. I tried every ration I could think of, and usually they would eat it like crazy for a day or two and then lose interest- leavimg me with most of a bag of feed they wouldn't eat! I finally found one that they liked, a 16% protein dairy goat ration with no urea in it. I have not had to switch since, they always eat it!!
COB stands for Corn, Oats, and Barley. There is plain COB and COB with molasses added. Whole corn is not very good for them- it is hard on their teeth and wears them down at an early age. All I can say in the way of help is to keep trying different feeds, and look for ones that are high in protein, don't have urea or animal protein (byproducts or animal sterol), and don't have a lot of molasses. Vicki would be the one to ask about just how much molasses is acceptable. How much grain were you feeding per goat, in my opinion the 1/2 lb of grain per lb of milk produced is way too much grain if the goat is producing well.
-- Rebekah (firstname.lastname@example.org), July 23, 2002.
My girls wolf anything!!! LOL
I have a dairy ration mixed. It's 16% protien and I can feed it to everything on the place. Cheap. I do modify it at times. I add sunflower seeds, alfalfa pellets, and calf manna for the milkers. They are spoiled! The kids get (creep fed) a starter mixed in for cocci, but also are on cocci prevention treatment. Always loose mineral and soda available. Alfalfa hay. Full browse.
I wish I could get organic feed as well!!! But, not around here. :-(
-- Patty (SycamoreHollow@aol.com), July 23, 2002.
Rebekah, you asked how much grain was I feeding per lb of milk. I feed them according to other factors, since my 3 milkers have different body size, and some of the feed is to maintain body weight.Also I don't have a scale , so I don't know. But I know they'll be hungrier for grain if I take them for a long hike in the steep hills around here, and also when it's cold out.And they used to want more grain to eat at those times . The one who used to eat the most grain , produces the least milk ?.I've noticed since I'm now reducing their grain ( really they are just eating the grain less themselves) and letting them eat kudzu most of the day , I'm getting more milk.Seems they'll eat more kudzu when given less grain. I also like the taste of the milk better. So I tried a piece of kudzu myself yesterday,the tender growing tip of a vine, and it taste like raw green beans.Now I'm starting to think maybe I should be eating more kudzu myself.The feed stores around here don't carry barley ,they said it's because it doesn't grow around here. And no feed store will do any speacial orders, including a feed without Urea. I"ve had my place for sale for awhile , the next place I move to, I'll make sure they have foods I and my goats will like and this will be the determinating factor as to where my next home will be. Probably the north west, I hear Canada is a lot strickter with what they allow in their fertilizers,for instance ,strawberries grown in Florida are banned for sale in Canada,because they are grown with a chemical that is considered unsafe, by Canadian standards. That's what a Florida food broker who exports fruit and vegies told me.
-- SM Steve (Unreal@home.com), July 25, 2002.
If your feed had urea in it that is the problem! Urea is very bad for goats. If that is all they will sell you will have to mix your own feed- this way you can control what they are eating and will know exactly what is in it too.
-- Rebekah (email@example.com), July 26, 2002.
Rebekah, what is urea? and is it the stuff that gives the Bucks stones? Is it bad for Doe 's as well? Ammonium cloride is also listed on the label of the feed I use.Does that balance the urea? Anyway since I'd like to mix my own feed do you have a recipe. I had one from Bernice friend in Arkansas, I think he's westwood farms, I forgot his name but alot of the grains he suggested are not found here.I can get oats, corn,sunflower seed,and wheat ,but wheat is only available seasonally, in fall. Alfalfa cubes ( compressed) .Afalfa pettlets here are poor in quaity, I bought a sack of them and none of the livestock would even nibble on them.With the ingredients mentioned, can a feed be made that has the right nutrients and protien, without to much fat.I feel like I'm asking to much from you ,I know how limited time is when taking care of livestock, not to mention taking care of ourselves , our families, and gardens.If it's easier I can e-mail you so you can answer when time permits.I use a fake e-mail here.I like using the Forum rather than e-mail ,so others who have similar problems, who are to shy to post but read ,can get answers also. Thanks
-- SM Steve (Unreal@home.com), July 27, 2002.
Urea is from urine- nasty! :-( They feed it to cattle because cows can convert it to protein, but goats are a whole 'nother story. Ammonium chloride is to keep bucks and wethers from getting bladder stones- you do not need to worry about stones with does. I will see if I can dig up a few recipes for hoem mixed feed. I know we had a long discussion about it on Countryside at one time.
-- Rebekah (firstname.lastname@example.org), July 27, 2002.
I thought the word urea might be derived from the word urine, but was afraid to ask. I'd think bucks get enough of that on their own without adding it to feed. I guess it must be a waste product from animal bladders from the slauther houses.
-- SM Steve (Unreal@home.com), July 28, 2002.