Today being July 23rd 2002, I had the opportunity of seeing the Pope arrive in Toronto For World Youth. His vision that he has brought forward in his life cannot be overlooked. This is a great Man. One like no other. He has preached for world peace all his life. We must all bow down to this great leader of peace. As i watched him come down the staircase from his Planc I felt I feeling of great Joy. I hope his week here in Toronto will fulfill allot people. I Am honered to have him here and look forward to attending his mass this coming Sunday. God Bless The Pope God Bless us all.

-- Frank Triolo (triolof@3web.net), July 23, 2002

Answers

I still do not understand, and never will, why non-believers come on this forum....I guess they get some kind of kick out of it..

One does not have to be a believer to have respect for a man like the Pope. He has always strived for peace in this world and is well- respected by world leaders, believers, non-believers as well. He's a good man and a very special man, very holy, compassionate, and deserves respect.

Many people his age, with his illness, are sitting in nursing homes feeling sorry for themselves - this man keeps on moving and doesn't give up. He still has a lot to offer. His mind is sharp. God bless him and may his current journey prove to be fruitful.

MaryLu

-- MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), July 23, 2002.

Yeah Mateo, I have to hand to the general opposition for the use of the 'fear' thing; it works pretty well in most situations. Think about it, if you are coming across resistance of any kind, you just throw out the face-your-fears thing and while it doesn't prove anything by itself, it works well as a pivot to switch the convo into another direction. Ignorance and bigotry accusations work well too, because they can't really be proven. It's like with my kids... you yell out to them to come in the house, see, and you know they heard you, but they say they don't, and you absolutely cannot prove that they could. And they know that, lol! It works well.

So my best defense against that, I've found is just to admit it... takes the fire out of it.

I could do this though, but it probably won't work:

"Didn't anyone ever teach you Emerald that an ideology of an " us and a them" is the farthest thing from the teaching of Jesus"

...and then repeat what I said before: " You're absolutely right, Bambi. Let's get them Protestants back into the fold." That would solve the 'us and them' ideology.

Bambi, think about it... you don't like the general the notion that there is an absolute truth, right... and what you perceive as negative fallout from holding the fixed-truth position, in particular the dismissal of other ways of looking at things. But somehow you have got to be aware that the pursuit of 'open-mindedness' is in itself an exclusive mindset that rejects people like Mateo, myself and others who believe that in Truth and believe that knowledge of it can be attained. You eventually will find yourself at odds with people despite the most relentless pursuit of 'open-mindedness', and you cannot avoid an us-and-them stance in the long run yourself, in virtue of that open-mindedness.

I'm sure if you hired a contractor to build a highrise for you, and he were standing at the foundations holding a tape measure and insisting that 2 and 2 were 5, that your 'fears' about the stability of that building are going to be well founded. If it works like that in the physical and visible realm, why ditch it when dealing with intangibles?

As for the conundrum, I wonder if I could incorporate that into some of the African rythms I've been working on lately... hmmm. Where could I find one?

-- Emerald (emerald1@cox.net), July 24, 2002.

I know this post was addressed to Emerald, but, if you don't mind, I would like to ask you a few questions Bambi.

Didn't anyone ever teach you Emerald that an ideology of an " us and a them" is the farthest thing from the teaching of Jesus from the theology of at-one-ment.

Where does Jesus teach an "at-one-ment?" Also, if you believe Jesus taught this but no one else does, then isn't that by it's very nature an "us and a them" kind of mentality?

It is a precipice rooted in pride, a human conundrum whose only purpose is to satisfy and calm the need of self-aggrandisement.

How is it pride when you spoke with the same kind of menality. If anything you could argue that is the "binding force." Come on Emerald, you are much too bright to believe that God has a religion and sees and judges through this human system.

Wasn't it God who formed the religion in the first place? Every major religion has had as it's founder some man, except Judaism and Catholicism.

Don't be afraid of what you know deep within yourself. Don't be afraid to acknowledge the god that lives within you and the wisdom that issues forth.

"God dwells within us" What does this mean? How do you know? And, by what measure would He dwell in us, if we deprive ourselves of everything He left for us?

Don't make god into a catholic lap dog, it is a great injustice.

By what standards does one make God a lap dog if we worship Him through the religion He, Himself founded?

God Bless

-- (sacerdos@hotpop.com), July 24, 2002.

Come to think of it, actually, did Jesus teach at-one-ness? What did Jesus himself say, something about His teaching dividing father and son, brother against brother, etc. Can someone find this verse for me?

-- Emerald (emerald1@cox.net), July 24, 2002.

Matthew 10:34:

"Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword."

-- jake (jake__@msn.com), July 24, 2002.

Luke 12:51-53: 51 Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division; 52 for henceforth in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three; 53 they will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against her mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in- law against her mother-in-law."

God Bless

-- (sacerdos@hotpop.com), July 24, 2002.

Um.

Yeah. What Brian said.

-- jake (jake__@msn.com), July 24, 2002.