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1) Why does the church have creeds? isn't the Bible itself "enough"? Does the church really need them? Why?2) How can God be Father, Son, And Holy Spirit all at once? When Jesus th Son suffered and die on the cross, did God the Father also suffer and die?
3) Why we may need the Church? Why it can't be on our own?
-- irvin cruz (icruz4@yahoo.com), September 10, 2002
you're obviously not a catholic....
-- THE SMALL DIRTY WINDOW (bob@hotmail.com), September 11, 2002.
Wow Irvin, you're packing in quite a lot with your questions, but your query sounds genuine, so I'll take a first pass here to see if I can start the ball rolling.Why does the church have creeds? isn't the Bible itself "enough"? Does the church really need them? Why?
Creeds are simply succinct and precise statements of what we believe. They are based on scripture and the common interpretation of scripture. They are very helpful both for having a common understanding between believers and for easily communicating our faith to non-believers.
For instance, we might have a creed that says "Jesus is God". Now, there isn't a single scripture that says that in such a succinct way. But there are a number of scriptures that proclaim Jesus as God indirectly. Here's one from the first chapter of the gospel of John,
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.
The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. There came a man sent from God, whose name was John. He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him. He was not the Light, but {he came} to testify about the Light. There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, {even} to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."
If you'll note the two parts I bolded, we can see that the Word was God and later we learn that the Word became flesh which we know then that the Word is speaking of Jesus Christ. So we can confirm that Jesus was God.
So when we say our creed that "Jesus is God", we're stating something that is true and that has it's basis in scripture.
This scripture I used also has relevance to your second question.
How can God be Father, Son, And Holy Spirit all at once? When Jesus th Son suffered and die on the cross, did God the Father also suffer and die?
As you can see from the above scripture, the Word [Jesus] was God and it also says he was with God [the Father]. That's a snapshot into the mystery that man has named the Trinity, which is just a succinct term that is used to refer to the three in one God that we worship. They are one God yet three distinct manifestations of God.
The reason we can't comprehend how this can occur is because we are corporal. We can only perceive reality from the world we see, hear taste, touch and smell. But the spirit world in which God exists is far greater and very much different than ours. It functions from a whole different set of rules. In the spirit realm, it is possible to conceive and understand how God, who is spirit, can be three in one.
The closest thing I usually use as an analogy to try to explain this is using the sun. We can never really "see" the sun. We can only see it's glory, it's light. Even the most powerful telescope can't see past the fires on the surface of the sun which gives it light. Yet underneath that light is the source of the light, the sun itself. So in comparing to the Trinity, the Father would be like the sun itself (the inner core, the power), the Son would be the light that is seen (the light that gives us life), and the Holy Spirit would be the heat that we feel but cannot see (the comfort and strength we need to survive and live).
And to your final question.
Why we may need the Church? Why it can't be on our own?
Because a branch that's disconnected from the vine withers and dies.
Jesus describes the church as being his body and that we are all necessary parts of that body. Can a finger decide to drop off the body and live on it's own? No, it would shrivel up and die - it has no brain, heart, blood, etc which are needed to survive.
I hope that helps Irvin.
Dave
-- non-Catholic Christian (dlbowerman@yahoo.com), September 11, 2002.
Awsome explenation Dave!Couldn't add anything more than that!
In Christ.
-- Jake Huether (jake.huether@lamrc.com), September 11, 2002.
Thanks Jake!Irwin, I realized that there was at least one question I didn't address.
You asked When Jesus th Son suffered and die on the cross, did God the Father also suffer and die?
First, did God the Father suffer? Yes, but in a different way than Jesus. God the Father, because He's all-knowing, would certainly have a powerful and perfectly complete understanding of the physical and spiritual pain that Jesus was experiencing. And as any Father would for his son, God the Father suffered knowing His Son's pain. And I'm sure there was much suffering that God the Father experienced in His Son's physical death that's simply beyond our comprehension as humans to grasp.
Second, did God the Father die? No. Jesus's physical body experienced death (just as real as yours and mine will one day), but His spirit never tasted of death. And neither did God the Father die.
Dave
-- non-Catholic Christian (dlbowerman@yahoo.com), September 11, 2002.
Dave,What a beautiful explanation!
Irwin,
There are some questions that just have no answers. Faith is a mystery and some questions will always remain a mystery until the end of time. Either one believes without a doubt or one does not believe.
Faith is believing what we do not see. God's ways are not our ways, God's timing is not our timing but His timing is always perfect. (so, I have discovered)
Two words which need no explanation: "I believe"
I have learned not to question because I will not get the answers to such a mystery as God. People complicate faith by trying to analyze it. Faith cannot be analyzed. It is a gift, a very precious gift and it sustains me.
Once you have a personal relationship with Jesus you just know when He is speaking to you, you know what He expects of you, and you know when He is not pleased with you. You just "know" these things.
When you learn about the lives of the saints, and know Our Lady, there is no need for questions and trying to figure it all out...you just accept the mystery.
MaryLu
-- MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), September 12, 2002.
I loved your response Mary Lu!! It was really nicely put and to the point. God Bless, a Catholic and proud to say it!-MLB
-- MLB (jmjinga91@hotmail.com), September 12, 2002.
Hey everyone, please don't answer Irvin's questions! He's obviously trying to get *us* to answer his homework questions for him.Irvin, you need to look up the answers yourself, otherwise you won't learn anything. Sorry!
Love, :-)
-- Christine L. (christinelehman@hotmail.com), September 17, 2002.