Under what pretense would this be called a godly work? This was written by a so called christian, a 'man devoted to spreading the word of Jesus.'

Chick claims not to hate Catholics, but are we to really believe him?

-- Jim 'Harvey' Bowers (none@n/a.net), September 11, 2002

Answers

Jack Chick has been refuted by a couple of places for more eloquent than I. At least we're not the only group he completely misrepresents in his tracts. Pagan types *really* get blasted in an unfair and inaccurate way.

http://net2.ne tacc.net/~mafg/jtchick/jtc02.html is one such site which debunks the lies Chick likes to spread about Catholics.

Chick is a fundamentalist Christian who is convinced that the Catholic Church is the Whore of Revelations. A look at the list of books his company publishes and their authors (Hislop, Boettner, Hunt, etc.) is one of the biggest piles of Anti-Catholicism under one roof. The problem is that one cannot explain anything about the Church to him. If anything goes bad in the world, it can be attributed to the Catholic Church; he will gleefully publish anything, no matter how shoddy the scholarship, which attacks the Catholic Church. For instance, he tries to paint the Catholic Church in the worst possible light by pinning squarely on us the Inquisition (with some 9 million killed - no scholar believes this figure anymore), the Crusades - a way to "thin out" the Jewish bloodline with Christian blood, and Nazi Germany. We're also supposed to be responsible for the creation of Islam and the rise of Communism in Russia.

One cannot even present historical proof that he is incorrect, because he will dismiss it instantly using the magic wand of "Vatican Conspiracy." We've changed the History books, and have a crack team of Jesuit assassins waiting to remove anyone who disagrees with the Church.

At any rate, about the only thing we can do is try to correct the misconceptions that other people have about us, through these tracts, and to pray that God might open his eyes to the truth.

-- Troy (gund0965@kettering.edu), September 12, 2002.

Unfortunately, having been on this site for some time now, when I see a thread like this my first question is: "is this a Catholic who really has a question about Jack Chick, or is this instead a Chick devotee trying to sneak his tract onto the site?"

A pretty cynical view, I know, but then there you go. I suppose we are all judged by our fruits. What I've always wondered about these guys is how they can hate priests, monks and the Church when they are the ones who hand-copied the Bible for a thousand years that Chick professes to love so much. Where would he be without the church to give him the Bible he has now?

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), September 12, 2002.

I took a brief look at the website, and there again, is that rabid hateful spirit, that is so prevalent is "some" Protest-ant circles. It's sad really, because you know it grieves the heart of our Lord! I wonder if that's all these people think about -- destroying the Church in the name of the Lord!

Gail

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), September 12, 2002.

When we see in that well-known parable how Christ described this kingdom; a field which He sowed with good seed (the Gospel) and later on was found to be infested with thistles and weeds growing alongside His wheat;

An exegesis teaches the ''tares'' and wheat are indistinguishable until harvest time. The farmer asks the Landowner (God) ''Do you want us to pull out these tares now?''

He answered (paraphrased) ''No-- Let them grow together here because we don't want to damage the wheat on account of them. When the harvest is taken in, then; you shall separate the tares out from it; and tie them up to cast into the furnace where they will burn. The wheat you will then take into my storehouse.''

The Chick-style ''Christian'' is in reality the TARES among the wheat of Christ's fields. It will grow side- by-side as if it were real wheat, until the appointed time of harvest.

Remember: at the time of the discovery of these tares (thistles, weeds), Our Landowner (Christ) explained, ''An enemy hath done this.''

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), September 12, 2002.

I agree that it appears Chick is a catholic "hater". I feel sorry for those who share his views, because in the end all of the "Protest" ant religions evolved from the Roman Catholic Church and we ALL pray to the same God. It is all a matter of semantics as to who is right and who is wrong. I for one think we will ALL be surpised by who was and wasn't correct when judgement comes. Instead of critizing each others religous views-why not ry to live in peace and harmony the way God wants. And just for record, Catholics DO NOT worship the Blessed Virgin Mary and the saints. Maybe these so called Protestant experts should get the facts correct before spouting off about how we are the mother whore church who is leading all the world to hell!!! God Bless all of US, Mary

-- Mary L. Beier (jmjinga91@hotmail.com), September 12, 2002.

Dear Mary:
This is called ''bending over backward to please'', until you fall onto your back.

Your words: ''. . . all of the "Protest" ant religions ***evolved from the Roman Catholic Church**** and we ALL pray to the same God. It is all a matter of semantics as to who is right and who is wrong. I for one think we will ALL be surpised by who was and wasn't correct when judgement comes,''

Is too great a leap. Because, no sectarian Christian church ''evoves'' out of the Catholic Church. It wasn't as if they came to term, grew from their mother's womb, and became viable churches. That's growth.

No, thes people GAVE UP their true faith. That's an act of denial and rebellion. Not semantics. They may be forgiven and return, if they ever repent. But they do NOT give worship to the same God side-by- side with the Church Christ founded. They oppose that true Church.

If they're doing this in invincible ignorance, and privately live lives of repentence and charity for others, it's our belief they will be saved. However, nothing they learn through their communal churches is going to save them. NOTHING. What little survives within their faith of the original teachings of the Holy Apostles (therefore, the Catholic Church) is useful as God's grace in their individual souls. But nothing in their assemblies is able to keep them in God's grace. It wasn't meant to be so by Christ's own intent. He wished there to be ONE Church, and ONE shepherd. And ONE Church is what He founded. Not many varieties.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), September 12, 2002.

Eugene, you are correct in your response. However, many of the people whp you say rejected the One True Church were not raised in the One True Church. I agree that the Romasn catholic Church is the one and only true church Jesus left us with. So, to me they have not rejected the Catholic Church because they were never exposed to the true teachings of our faith. I have been told of prostestant(Baptist to be exact) church's who teach and pass out false propaganda againest the Catholic church. So, my question is-how should we regard these people who preach and teach againest our faith, but are good Christians otherwise. But misguided is their ways. I don't feel that God put me here to pass judgement how good or bad a person's faith and religious views are.

Do you agree? I respect your opinion- as you seem to know much more about our faith than I do. I have just come back to the church in the past 10 yrs really. Raised Catholic, educated catholic, but never had the sense to appreciate it while I was growing up! I wish I could tell young people to pay attention and not throw away what God had given us-faith and knowledge. I thank Jesus everyday for his Mother and her help in bringing me back to me senses!!

God Bless, MLB

-- A true Catholic-MLB (jmjinga91@hotmail.com), September 12, 2002.

Sorry for all the typo's!!! MLB

-- A true Catholic-MLB (jmjinga91@hotmail.com), September 12, 2002.

YES, MLB--

We know God can distinguish between the ones who rebel at His Word and the poor servants not able to understand.

Catholic teaching tells us the ones who do NOT understand; who follow a Christian persuasion apart from the Church that Jesus established-- But not from reasons of pride or self-love, may still become His beloved servants. The disposition of every single soul is sacred to Our Lord. He is the sure and legitimate JUDGE! This is a sacred article of our Catholic faith--

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), September 13, 2002.

Dear True Catholic MLB:
How wonderful to see your sincere and loving testimony to God's grace in the world! If only a few of our nominal Catholics this day were so fortunate as you! Thank you for serving this forum with your good will. Don't go away. Stay in our midst for a while. We want to get to know you. Let yourself be patient with our forum for a time.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), September 13, 2002.

Hey, Eugene, thanks for articulating the true "middle ground" which is the Church's real teaching, re: salvation outside the Church.

I have been having a discussion (okay, "argument"!) with a Feenyite at another Catholic site this week (which is why I haven't been here much!) and my stomach is in an uproar over the whole thing. She keeps insisting that if we concede the possibility that Protestants might be saved, it's the same as saying that all religions are the same.

May I quote from what you've written above, in what I suspect will be my final attempt to clarify the issue with her?

Thanks again!

Christine :-)

-- Christine L. (chris_tinelehman@hotmail.com), September 13, 2002.

Sure, Christine
If you really want to put a bee in her bonnet, add this:

Catholic doctine still insists with complete authority, that whoever is ultimately saved, be they Hindu, Protestant or Jew-- will only be saved by the grace Christ has entrusted once and for all to the Church He founded. That's the Holy Church of the apostles, none other than the Catholic Church. It's HIS GRACE which saves you and me.

However, there's this catch: He channels all this grace through the Catholic Church. Even those who disagree with her have no other way to enter heaven except trough her sacraments; and the basic one is the one which makes us Catholics! BAPTISM!

Since Catholic doctrine makes baptism of every soul a real possibility, whether by desire or martyrdom for the sake of Christ, a complete repentence for all sin and charity for our neighbor-- uniquely holy things in the sight of God--

He is Our Saviour; and can give these souls the grace of baptism even if they die never having been in a Catholic church. Recall the words of Jesus; ''Nothing is impossible with God.''

This may seem too generalised. Well; only God can truly say who is saved. But the GRACE of Jesus Christ is in the world as His own gift to His Church. The Gospel is in the world from the same Jesus Christ. All that is necessary for salvation was first given His Bride, the Church in the persons of His apostles. So all salvation necessarily comes down from Christ through the Church.

Just because some souls have rejected her out of ignorance doesn't stop her from sharing the grace of Christ with them. But in no way does that make all religions the same. All SAVED SOULS are the SAME-- Saved by CHRIST, by His grace, and through the faith of the Church. The One True Church; not just any Church.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), September 13, 2002.

Thanks, Eugene!

What I think is really ironic about the Feeneyites is that they condemn *other* people for dissenting from Church doctrines, but can't see that they themselves are doing exactly the same thing!

Sigh!

-- Christine L. (christinelehman@hotmail.com), September 13, 2002.

Hello, Frank Someone.
You wrote: "Unfortunately, having been on this site for some time now, when I see a thread like this my first question is: 'Is this a Catholic who really has a question about Jack Chick, or is this instead a Chick devotee trying to sneak his tract onto the site?'"

You wondered if you might be cynical. If you are cynical, then we both are. The very moment I read that opening message, I had the same thought as you. I think that chances are much better than 50/50 that "Jim 'Harvey' Bowers" is a "Chiklet" bigot. I doubt that a real Catholic would have posted three links, as "Harvey" did.

John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), September 15, 2002.