First off thanks for everyone who answered my Mary question! I am still trying to become a stronger 18 year old Catholic. All my thanks goes out to you guys for helping me.

I have small question. My friend brought up "it says in the bible that all men are created equal then why is there a pope?" I did not know how to answer this question. If it comes up again in a convo. I want to be educated in telling a Catholics point of view. It is so hard because all my friends are either Assembly of god Or just go by the bible. They always bring up my religion and I want to be able to answer every question. Anyway thanks for everything! Alicia

-- Alicia Star (aliciastar11@yahoo.com), September 23, 2002

Answers

Hello Alicia,

I cannot find where the Holy Bible states that "all men are created equal." The phrase originally comes from U.S. Declaration of Independence (Thomas Jefferson). Later, Martin Luther King, Jr. quotes this in his famous speech in Washington DC.

If you would consider that our Founding Fathers wrote this, does this mean that they were contradicting it when they proposed representative democracy (meaning leaders) for the United States government? Did Thomas Jefferson act hypocritically when he himself accepted the position of president of the United States? I don't think that the presidency (or any position of leadership) contradicts the idea behind "all men are created equal."

The Pope is given a special responsibility to serve the Church; but he is no less in need of God's grace to receive the Salvation that only comes from Jesus Christ. If you would like some support for why the Catholic Church has a Pope, read:

Catholic.com -- Church and the Papacy

EWTN.com -- Papal Primacy

Alicia, it's wonderful that you've taken such an interest in your faith. I'm sure that God will continue to bless your efforts.

In Christ,

Mateo

-- (MattElFeo@netscape.net), September 23, 2002.

This is a collection of errors that astounds me.

Yes, the quotation is wrongly attibuted to God, not Jefferson. He may have taken it from the prior Dutch declaration of independence.

I also believe that Jefferson really ment equal under the law or in the eyes of God's mercy and justice. Not that all strong people should be shackled until they are no more effective then the least person. So in the US anyone has a chance at being president. Then the trouble is to get a person who will be effective as president elected.

If all are equal, why then is Billy Graham/MLKing/etc special? I like the prior example too: why then a president?

The Bible has kings, pharos, prophets, sinners, wise folk, and fools in it as examples and as teaching. These are not all equal in earthly abilitys, nor equal in merit in the eyes of God. But they started out equal in heavenly merit, and can often turn around and change to be more or less in such. Such a broad survey of human ways could not come up with the 'all men are created equal' quote, unless it is miss applied.

-- Sean Cleary (seanearlyaug@juno.com), September 23, 2002.

Generally it is the Catholic that knows the Bible least. I am surprised that your friend could so mis-quote. Could she supply chapter and verse? Just as I once noted the origin of Civil Engineering in something Jesus said (It is the problem with the building's construction, not the sin of the people it fell on), I suspect that Paul might have very indirectly influenced in a round about way the founding fathers of the USA. They knew the Bible well.

(So, half jokingly, I consider Jesus the patron s/a/i/n/t of Civil engineers (not that I am one)).

-- Sean Cleary (seanearlyaug@juno.com), September 23, 2002.

Sean, you wrote: "Generally it is the Catholic that knows the Bible least."

I have heard numerous Protestant laymen and ministers (who have had the great grace to become Catholics) say that your statement is a widespread myth.

I would call it, at best, a gross exagerration.
I would call it also an insult on your part. If you can treat us, your Catholic hosts at a Catholic forum, in this way, then I invite you to go away until you learn some manners.

Your very behavior (on this and various other threads) proves that you, as a Protestant, don't know the Bible well, because you don't know how to behave as a Christian.

John

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), September 23, 2002.

John,

I take it that you do not want debate on this subject.

I am sorry that I hurt your feelings, and put down your fellow Catholics. It was unintentional. I was following, amoung other things, that sterotype.

Sean

-- Sean Cleary (seanearlyaug@juno.com), September 24, 2002.

In the Bible you won't find the words "all men are created equal", but here you have its equivalent:

"26: for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27: For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28: There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29: And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise". (Letter to Galatians, ch. 3)

Enrique

-- Enrique Ortiz (eaortiz@yahoo.com), September 24, 2002.

Alicia,

On another topic,

You seek to improve your faith and understanding as a Catholic. This is good. The world will attack both, but if you are armed against these attacks by strong faith and strong understanding, you can prevail with God's help.

A friend of mine keeps her Jewish faith by being very knowledgeable about her faith and the Christian faith. She knows both better than the usual door to door Christian knows his. She said such knowledge is vital.

Could you, for me, give the lie to my above statement and read the Bible at least once, if you have not done so already? Cover to cover, all the boring parts included? This will help you be a better Catholic.

Enrique,

You show again that your knowledge of the Bible is better than mine. I felt that there was something, likely in Paul, about this, and you hit it exactly. For all my advice to Alicia, your contrast to me shows what strong Bible knowledge really is, and how effective it is.

Sean

-- Sean Cleary (seanearlyaug@juno.com), September 26, 2002.

Sean and Alicia: I'll tell you my secret. Since about age ten my parents taught me to read de Bible every day. If it was only one chapter it was o.k. I have followed this advice all my life. At times I read more than just one chapter (sometimes you get caught by the text and you don't seem to be able to put it down).

IF YOU READ :

- ONE CHAPTER everyday , (about 4 minutes) you'll read the whole Bible in about three years.

- THREE CHAPTERS ( 12 minutes) on weekdays and 5 CHAPTERS ( 20 minutes) on Sundays it will take you ONE YEAR to read the Bible .

- SEVEN CHAPTERS everyday (about half hour) you'll finish it in six months, twice a year.

But to have a deep knowledge of the Word of God it is necessary to read not only in length but also in DEPTH (trough prayer and meditation).

Enrique

-- Enrique Ortiz (eaortiz@yahoo.com), September 27, 2002.

John, Peace be unto you and yours, may all prosper in what good things they do, and may those you bless know that they have been truly blessed.

In your words above you mentioned that I am a very poor example of a protestant: I lack knowledge of the Bible and the way to live. The first is a result of my Catholic upbringing. I was not only propagating that stereotype, I was/am living it. I had 3 years of Catholic elementary school. And many years of the sermons, readings, and Sunday school. Yet my kids know the Bible better then I did at twice their years. Hopefully this problem has been cleared up in the schools in the ensuing years. That the young lady and her friend could not likely tell where a quote came from gives me a bad feeling about that. But maybe she was, as I was, largely a product of the public schools. Since the nuns had but 3 years of me, I may not be fair to lay my ignorance at their feet. But so many Catholics lack even what I was given. To paraphrase the tech help service: we all should have read the blessed manual. You certainly have.

I also had an attitude: that I should not memorize the Bible, that I should not be like the stump preachers that knew the whole by heart but lacked the in-depth knowledge of the implications of the Bible. This I now see as false pride. Pride that I do not have that detailed knowledge of the Bible. I will give this foolish habit up as I can. I am memorizing parts of it with my daughters.

I have taken a Bible class a while ago, and it greatly helped. For one thing we actually read the Book. This made a difference: before I did not know what it contained, afterward I still had only vague references. I never tried to memorize it, and have lazily leaned on others (like eugene) to get the exact citation.

Additionally your essays are coherent and strong and mine sometimes are stream of thought babel. This contrast can be blamed on my poor english skills, and on your years of work under fire. You have the knowledge of a priest or a teacher of priests, and the style of a master essay writer. This is what provides the contrast between us, not really Catholic vs Protestant.

God bless you, and may your words inspire that which pleases God, Sean

-- Sean Cleary (seanearlyaug@juno.com), September 27, 2002.

It took a few hours to craft that response to John, I really wanted to do well by him. This post after another post is because the topic of this post is not the topic of the last.

Back on the topic of the title: 26: for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27: For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28: There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29: And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise". (Letter to Galatians, ch. 3)

Even then there were leaders in the church: Paul, Peter, the other apostles, and many who are mentioned in Acts. The leadership was and continues to be needed. The leaders were those who had been in contact with Christ, and later, those who had been in contact with the leaders before. A system was setup where (hopefuly) the best qualified person would be the leader of leaders.

Communications were hard and chancy in those days, Journeys were hazardous (read Paul for several examples), and Rome and Constanople drifted apart, each not really hearing/listening to the few people the other could send. This regretable history lead to there being a split in Christianity.

-- Sean Cleary (seanearlyaug@juno.com), September 27, 2002.

Once you have read the Bible, or even better along with it, read the Catachism. It is a thick book full of Catholic thought, and reasons. It is blessed in many ways. In a sense, the Bible alone is needed to be a Christian, and the Bible with the Catachism is needed to be a Catholic.

Much later, especially if the Catachism does not completely satisfy all your curiosity and questions, you can trace back and read the source documents that the Catachism refers to. But the Bible and the Catachism are enough homework for this year.

For the spirit of Catholicism, try a life of St. Francis. The dude blows me away. Or rent a few movies about the guy. Brother Sun and Sister Moon is a good one. I do not have words to say enough. I visited Assisi (spelling?). St. Francis left a spirit of peace on that town. And he preached to the birds, who today are living together in incredible numbers. (Do not order soup in Assisi: every 15 mins the bells toll. The birds fly. The feathers come down for the next 15 mins. repeat.) If you have any feeling for the holy and spiritual, that town is special even so many centuarys later.

On another topic: I have attended an Assembly of God service in Arkansas. It was a wonderful Spirit filled service. I began to wonder where the other 2 parts of the trilogy came in: It was mostly of the Spirit. Still they are our brothers and sisters in Christ. God bless them.

-- Sean Cleary (seanearlyaug@juno.com), September 27, 2002.

I am a christian and i have just been attending a catholic church. and i have a few questions. Why do they pray the same prayers every church service. Why do they pray to the saints and NOT JUST GOD. Why pray to marry??Marry has no powers what so ever. All she did was give birth to christ. And how come there are never any teachings that come out of the book of John??? Just a few questions i was wondering if anyone can anser...Thx

-- george robinson (rabbit_fur_man@yahoo.com), December 02, 2003.

"I am a christian"

A: So are we. Catholics were the first Christians, the only Christians for the first 1,000 years after Christ, and the only Christians Christ ever intended to exist. I assume you mean you are a Protestant?

"Why do they pray the same prayers every church service."

A: Some of the prayers are the same for every Mass. The Mass is the re-enactment of the Last Supper, which was in fact the first Mass. After Jesus celebrated that Mass, He commanded "DO THIS in remembrance of Me". And so we do - exactly as He did, using His very words, every single time, in obedience to that divine command. There are a few other prayers which also are always the same - such as the Creed, a basic statement of essential Christian beliefs. How could this change from day to day? However, some of the other prayers, as well as the scripture readings, do change from day to day.

"Why do they pray to the saints and NOT JUST GOD. Why pray to mary?"

A: When you ask another Christian to pray for you, that is not praying to someone other than God. Rather, it is multiplying your prayers to God, Who is the final recipient of all prayer. We pray (pray means "ask") to the saints to ask them to pray for us. Don't you ask other Christians to pray for you? Why would you restrict such requests to earthly sinners? Don't you think that those who are before the throne of God can also pray?

"Mary has no powers what so ever."

A: How much power does it take to pray for someone?

"All she did was give birth to christ."

A: That's ALL she did? Nothing more? MERELY brought the Savior of mankind into the world? JUST this one teeny weeny thing that no other human being in the history of the world has ever done or ever will do again. Sheesh, why do we bother with her at all?

"And how come there are never any teachings that come out of the book of John?"

A: I don't know what you mean. There certainly are readings from the Gospel of John at Mass. The readings are presented in a cycle, so that over a three-year period we hear most of the Bible read at Mass.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 02, 2003.

Dear George Robinson:
With all due respect, and so glad you've had a chance to attend Holy Mass at last,

Tell us what the upside has been? Are some things OK with you? Is the experience of any benefit to you spiritually?

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), December 02, 2003.