At 1:20am this morning I almost lost all three of my dogs to coyotes! I let them out before I went to bed and all of a sudden I could see more than 3 sets of yellow eyes reflecting back at me-Coyotes! There were at least 5 and they were headed for my old,arthritic dogs! Two of mine came running back after the coyotes started running after them but #3 a brittany stood her ground and I thought she would be a goner for sure. I couldn't shoot since all looked about the same color in the moonlight & I didn't want to hit Casey. Finally, when I made enough noise & started out after them they ran toward the woods. Casey seems OK-no wounds that I can find but she's really stiff this morning. All of my animals have their vaccinations but I don't want them injured or killed. Now all of this took place within 150' of my front door! I have fence at the woods edge but they came through by the gate-there's a 14" open area next to the gate(mis-cut the wire) and they made use of it. Today I'll be putting up more fence including that opening by the gate, repairing any breaks along the whole fenceline and trying to put up a better flood light. It is so dark down here and I'm night blind so I could step on a predator before I even knew it was out there. :) So how was your night??

-- Kathy (beckoningwinds@yahoo.com), September 24, 2002

Answers

Wierd. I had coyotes last night as well. Not as dramatic as your events! Good thing Casey is ok. I've never seen them go for dogs.....

Anyway, I heard dying screams and ran out to count heads, it wasn't one of mine. But something sure got et'. :-) Maybe a rabbit...they sure can screech for their size.

-- Patty (SycamoreHollow@aol.com), September 24, 2002.

CAthy, I think you could have scared the coyotes away by firing the gun into the ground.

-- joj (jump@off.c), September 24, 2002.

I probably should have fired in the air. I guess I just was so concerned about the dogs being in harms way I didn't think too clearly. I have read that dogs will be killed by a pack of coyotes, usually if it's just one or two the dogs will win but there were at least 5 and probably more-I just saw 5 sets of eyes but it sounded like there were more on the side of the yard. When our son still lived in the area he camped out one full moon night by the pond in our new barn-he counted 17 coyotes! He's 6'1, 270# and decided that he didn't want to camp out there anymore. LOL Well, time to get back outside & that fence.

-- Kathy (beckoningwinds@yahoo.com), September 24, 2002.

coyotes, dont usually kill in a pack, they will band together, to lure guard dogs away, to get to the livestock. What kind of dogs do you have Kathy? one on one, the defnding dog should win, unless there is a large size differance. MAYbe a couple larger dogs is in order?? ALong with the fence repair. You may also want to put traps right where they are coming in, or just outside where they come in. I have seen coyotes kill and eat another that was trapped, so,, if that happened to a couple of them,, it may discourage others from trying to come in,

-- Stan (sopal@net-pert.com), September 24, 2002.

Glad your dogs are OK, I've heard of coyote killing dogs out here in the desert, they lure them out and then get kill them if they keep coming after them, javelina do something very similar. Think that the fence improvement are the best thing, especially along the bottom, where they like to enter under the fence, where we placed our snares, but don't think that is a good idea with your dogs, as they could just as easy get caught in them.

Down here they roam such a wide area that you never see/hear them but every few months, especially if water and natural food is abundent.

-- BC (desertdewller@yahoo.com), September 24, 2002.

Well I got the fence repaired, blocked every trail I could find with cattle panels covered in 2x4 welded wire, installed a new gate, put up a three bulb flood light totalling 750w and I've got the guns loaded. My dogs are : ChiChi-14 yr old cocker, Casey-12yr old brittany & Freckles-11 yr old Springer. None are aggressive towards humans or animals which is good on one hand since they will lay right down with the chicks & ducklings but bad since they don't seem to have any self protection sense. I'm not good with very large or aggressive dogs, I guess I don't have the 'Alpha' attitude & they will defy me everytime. Tom has a 90# still growing Akita with him in TN, very sweet & protective but he's not the type of dog I think I could handle. We had 3 Malmutes each weighed between 75 & 125# when we lived in WI and they would obey Tom but back me in a corner every chance they got. One day they got out and killed 20 chickens, 9 ducks and 7 geese within a matter of 30 min! Our son had to put them down since they started down the drive toward the dairy farm across the street and no amount of calling would get them to return. The dairy had pens of bottle calves and we figured they would destroy all those calves next. It was a very sad day and I swore I'd never have another big dog that I couldn't handle. Are there any medium size( 50-70# max) dogs that are trainable by a 'softy' but also protective? I'm hoping tonight goes better now that everyone is secure. Tomorrow I will cross fence the side yard so that the dogs won't have the run of the whole thing-approx 3/4 acre. At night they don't need that much area and during the day they are either inside or I'm outside with them.

-- Kathy (beckoningwinds@yahoo.com), September 24, 2002.

I've know many desert ranch dogs, all sorts of breeds, that were great pets and still able to defend themselves or take out after javelina or coyotes (the take out after is not the smartest thing, if they go too far), so the answer is yes, but they need to be raised in a manner of protecting/defending their territory.

-- BC (desertdewller@yahoo.com), September 25, 2002.

Well I'm glad your dogs made it safely inside! It is funny, we had coyotes here last night, I guess it's time to train this year's whelp of pups to hunt. If I could have just been sure I had one in my sights last night I'd have been one less locally! Lost a lamb the night before too. We have Brits and Springers as well so your luck touches a nerve here. I'm thinking an ACD might be a better all round farm dog, G'ness knows they pattern on you for the training and are fearless.

-- Ross (amulet@istar.ca), September 25, 2002.

Kathy I haven't read all the post well but i didn't see the mention of Great Pyrenees. I know they are bigger than the 50 -70 lb. dog you may be looking for , but they are gentle with livestock and people and are real protective over the livestock , including chickens. I know of 4 people who have Great Pyrenees.And they tell me they have no problems with stray dogs or coyotes. They also won't allow people to steal or harm livestock.

I was once in a goat barn waiting for this women to get back from feeding her bucks and her husband who was feeding their horses.They were going to show me how to disbudd goats horns. They're the ones who have taught me how to worm and vacinate by injections, also .

I have been to their place many times.And their Great Pyrenees ,who I've only seen from a distance on my other visits there , wanted to come in the barn , so I let him in .Then I thought , maybe he's not suppose to be in the barn and I should lead him out , so I took him by the collar to take him outside the barn, and he grabbed my arm is his jaw .He held a grip that was too strong for me to get my arm out , yet his teeth were cafeful not to break the skin. I could feel he could do more but he was just giving me a warning . I let go of his collar and told him what a good boy he was and petted him on the head with my free hand and said OK , you can stay in the barn .

He just started wagging his tail and let go of my arm and wanted to be petted more. So I believe it, when people say these dogs are gentle with people and livestock and at at the same time , extremley fierce when it comes to protecting the livestock , family and pets.

-- Steve (unreal@home.com), September 25, 2002.

Well, it's started to rain here due to the hurricane in the Gulf, we're supposed to get 4-6 inches of rain before Friday evening. so I have some time to play on the computer.:) Rose, what is an ACD? I don't have a clue since I have stuck mostly to the smaller/med breeds. Mine are all fat as butter so they weigh more than the breed standard but they don't have the 'heart of a lion' personality. Steve, Pyrs are sweet dogs, I have a friend who occasionally breeds for a litter when she is sure she has all of them placed. Her pair are big sweeties as long as they know you're supposed to be there or you have been introduced to them by the owner. I took care of their animals while they went on vacation for 3 weeks and at first I was concerned but they'd just follow me everywhere always waiting for a bit of attention and a pet. I'll have to ask her some questions, especially if they get along with other dogs. The three I have are my babies and any new pet would have to 'fit' into this strange,critter filled household.:) I really appreciate all the suggestions and well wishes for my dogs. With some luck and better fences I'm hoping to prevent an occurence of the other night. I will shoot any coyotes if they come near the house,barns or in the pastures. I figure they have the back 30 acres full of wildlife and I will not go hunt them down way out there but I won't tolerate them invading my animal areas. If anyone thinks of anything else please post it, I'm always open to suggestions.

-- Kathy (beckoningwinds@yahoo.com), September 25, 2002.

Sorry Kathy an ACD is an Australian Cattle Dog. They are a medium sized dog but very energetic and alert. Must be a handful to train, and I've not always been fond of them; however if the local coyotes are facing down your dogs then an ACD will hold it's own. Great Pyrs worry me as we keep other peoples dogs and I've heard some very negative feedback about them as flock "protection" dogs. They'd be well matched 5 to 1 though! A fellow I know just shot his two as they were causing more neighbor problems then he could tolerate, and felt it was only a matter of time before a child was bitten or a pet killed in it's own yard. They weren't above stealing very new born lambs and eating them as well. No doubt there are many positive stories as well.

-- Ross (amulet@istar.ca), September 25, 2002.

Kathy, given your statement about “your babies” and any new pet needing to fit in, I don’t think that a new dog is the answer unless you are willing to separate it from your babies, cause the new dog will need to be dominate and protective and that will not bode well with the position(s) that your other dogs enjoy.

How about a Donkey? Somebody was talking about using donkeys as a coyote deterrent/killers, found these web sites about it, seems that donkeys hate coyotes: Coyote killing Donkeys and Missouri Guard Donkeys www.conservation.state.mo.us/manag/coyotes/probs.html

-- BC (desertdewller@yahoo.com), September 25, 2002.

Gee, Kathy. What a night for you and your dogs!! You certainly are lucky that they all survived. You most definitely need a more intimidating dog(s) to discourage them. I do have to add my 2 cents worth here and support the Alaskan Malamute. We had a male (130 lbs. in his prime) that was death on any animals smaller than he was, but was a real "pussycat" in the house with the family!! We have cats, chickens, ducks, goats, horses, pigs and occasionally a lamb or two...but he learned quite easily that these were off limits! Occasionally, though, he did test my authority :-)!! This was a dog that I trained and showed around the N.E. area, so he was used to lots of other people and animals (domesticated)...and he sure knew the difference between a neighbor's dog just passing through the yard and a coyote!! He passed away in 1997 at the age of 13 and my hubby and I sure miss him!! We also lost our other dog to old age just last fall...so now we are "dogless". We have lots of coyotes in the area and often sit out on the porch at night and listen to their "serenade". Other than a cat or two (possibly) we've never had a coyote take any of our livestock. Just pure luck, I guess!! Good luck in finding just the right dog for you!!!

-- Marcia (HrMr@webtv.net), September 25, 2002.

I think I'm going to look into the ACD, sounds like a more managable size for me to train plus I like colored dogs.:) Is an ACD the same as an Australian Shepard? We had an Aussie years ago and one day someone stole her out of the fenced backyard, she was a great dog and I really missed her. I had a donkey but found him a new home since I couldn't find another in my area and after a few weeks he was lonely. The Pyrs may be a good dog if I had goats or other hoof stock but I just have poultry so probably good fences and at least one younger dog will do the trick. Yea, these three old girls are my babies. I've had ChiChi since she was a puppy and she's the most loyal,sweet tempered cocker I've ever seen. Most cockers at 14 get nippy but not her-she loves everyone and everything. Freckles and Casey were both rescue dogs and have stolen my heart and they have the same calm, loving personalities as ChiChi. My 'girls' are allowed to share the king size waterbed with me when I'm here alone so yes they are pretty pampered.LOL

-- Kathy (beckoningwinds@yahoo.com), September 25, 2002.

Kathy, I would also endorse that type of breed. We got a dog that was supposed to be of Australian Shepard decent, but as she grew...we really suspected she was cattle dog. Orrrrrrr, what is the other name....? Can't think.......katahoola......?

Anyway, she really is the best dog ever. Very responsive. Natural instict to not harm stock. Not a herding animal, at least she isn't.

-- Patty (SycamoreHollow@aol.com), September 25, 2002.

I don't need a dog with a herding instinct since I don't think chickens,ducks &geese herd well. :) Mostly I'd like a breed that's loyal, brave and has a strong desire to protect me and mine. Gee, sort of sounds like I'm advertising for a husband. LOL!! Sorry Guys, I just found that funny. Must be time to get some sleep. Anyway, since I'm not an a strong disciplinarian type I need a dog that is willing to learn. The traits described above for the ACD makes me think it may work for me. I'm going to check out the web for some more info on the breed and breeders. Have a good night to all,

-- Kathy (beckoningwinds@yahoo.com), September 25, 2002.

Patty...I believe that you're thinking of the Catahoula Leopard Dog. We have a couple breeders in this area. From what I know of them, they are very loyal and protective of family...whether the "family" is two-legged or four!! Some can turn aggressive, though. I think that with good early socialization that can be avoided. I've always thought my next (outside) dog would be an Australian Shepherd. Very intelligent and not too agressive. I just can't get past the tailless feature, though :-)!

-- Marcia (HrMr@webtv.net), September 26, 2002.

Hi guys , had to answer. I have an almost 2 year old ACD bitch who I will be breeding soon.She is the smartest dog I have known {also have Golden ret ,& GSD] She works great , has made a 6 foot man sit in his truck , is great with the family, stand offish with strangers till she knows its ok.They need lots of time and exercise, there training does not alway go along "normal " lines.The monks of new skete have some great training books.Once trained you will not ever find a better friend or protector.Being cute as shit as pups don't hurt either !

-- Patty (fodfarms@hotmail.com), September 26, 2002.