Hell on earth?

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Please excuse my ignorance or lack of understanding but I have been told that Hades (hell) was a rubbish dump in Jerusalem.

If this is so is it possible we suffer purgatory and hell on earth?

Again, excuse my ignorance if I am wrong. I have a lot to learn.

-- Michael (michael_safc@hotmail.com), December 13, 2002

Answers

Dear Michael. The analogy between Hell and the dump outside Jerusalem was based on the fact that that dump was continuously on fire, and could not be extinguished. Jesus described Hell as "unquenchable fire", so the analogy fit. However, Hell exists outside of time and space, just as Heaven does. Heaven and Hell are forever. Earth is not. At the end of the world, there will be no more earth, no more solar system, no more universe, no more time - only Heaven and Hell. Also, though we sometimes describe great hardship in someone's life as "Hell on earth", the fact is the worst life anyone ever experienced on earth is a picnic compared to hell. The worst life on earth is temporary, and always has a glimmer of hope, even if the person is too depressed to see it. Hell is forever, and hope does not exist there. Neither do love, peace, joy, or anything that is of God.

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 13, 2002.

Michael, Paul is right to a 98%. The valley ( Ge) of Hinnom was a place in Jerusalem that King Josiah defiled by burning the trash from Jerusalem there. At one time there was child sacrifice and worship to the god Moloch at that place. By Jesus time , trash continued to be burned there. That is why Jesus used Gehenna ( the aramaic word) to show the gravity of sin, not that hell is a place of fire.

What creates confusion is that many bibles translate Gehenna as Hell. That is not true. Hell is not a place of fire. Hell is the absence of light (which is God). Hell is a place of Darkness. See Matthew 22:1-14. There a person with no wedding garment ( that is deserving of entering heaven )is thrown into the outer darkness. If Hell is fire, why did Jesus say it was better to be thrown into Gehenna= place of fire? Matthew 18:8-10.

Whether Hell is a place of eternal punishment (Matthew ch 25) and wether there is no hope, that is for God to decide.

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonzalez@srla.org), December 13, 2002.


Dear Elpidio,

God has already decided that Hell is forever, and that therefore there is no hope for those who choose that final destination, and has revealed these facts to His Church. And, He has repeatedly compared Hell to fire. Of course we have no way of knowing whether that fire is precisely identical to the fire we know on earth - probably not, since all created matter, including fuel and oxygen, will no longer exist - but it surely is not without reason that He uses this analogy so many times:

Mark 9:43 "If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire"

Luke 3:17 "His winnowing fork is in His hand to thoroughly clear His threshing floor, and to gather the wheat into His barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire"

Matthew 3:10 "The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire"

Matthew 13:40 "So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age"

Matthew 13:50 "and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth"

Matthew 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels"

Mark 9:46 "where the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched"

John 15:6 "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned"

Jude 1:7 "just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire"

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 13, 2002.


THERE IS NO HELL...OTHER THAN THE ONE CAUSED BY SOME OF THESE UNDEREDUCATED AND PSYCHOLOGICALLY DISPLACED EXCUSES WHO CALL THEMSELVES CHRISTIANS. IF THERE WAS SUCH A PLACE THE GOD WHO WOULD USE SUCH WOULD BE MORE EVIL THAN THE PLACE ITSELF.

-- NOAH (NOAH@COMP.COM), December 13, 2002.

God does not "use" hell. Hell is the absence of God, and God wants only to be present to us. God calls us away from Hell, warns us of its presence, gives us a clear roadmap so that we can avoid it, provides us with reliable guides, reaches out to us and tries in every possible way to lead us back onto the road to heaven. But we have free will, and if we fight Him all the way, then finally, with tears in His eyes, He must let us go. A loving God would not force us to spend eternity with Him, if we desired only to be far away from Him. No-one goes to Hell unless they personally insist upon it.

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 13, 2002.


Noah, you might enjoy this:

_________

If Noah Lived in the United States Today...

And the Lord spoke to Noah and said, "In one year, I am going to make it rain and cover the whole earth with water until all flesh is destroyed. But I want you to save the righteous people and two of every kind of living thing on the earth. Therefore, I am commanding you to build an Ark." In a flash of lightening, God delivered the specifications for an Ark. In fear and trembling, Noah took the plans and agreed to build the Ark.

"Remember" said the Lord, "You must complete the Ark and bring everything aboard in one year."

Exactly one year later, fierce storm clouds covered the earth and all the seas of the earth went into a tumult. The Lord saw that Noah was sitting in his front yard weeping.

"Noah," He shouted. "Where is the Ark?"

"Lord, please forgive me!", cried Noah. "I did my best, but there were big problems. First, I had to get a permit for construction and your plans did not meet the codes. I had to hire an engineering firm and redraw the plans.

Then I got into a fight with OSHA over whether or not the Ark needed a fire sprinkler system and floatation devices. Then my neighbor objected, claiming I was violating zoning ordinances by building the Ark in my front yard, so I had to get a variance from the city planning commission. Then I had problems getting enough wood for the Ark, because there was a ban on cutting trees to protect the Spotted Owl. I finally convinced the U.S. Forest Service that I needed the wood to save the owls. However, the Fish and Wildlife Service won't let me catch any owls. So, no owls. The carpenters formed a union and went out on strike. I had to negotiate a settlement with the National Labor Relations Board before anyone would pick up a saw or a hammer. Now I have 16 carpenters on the Ark, but still no owls.

When I started rounding up the other animals, I got sued by an animal rights group. They objected to me only taking two of each kind aboard. Just when I got the suit dismissed, the EPA notified me that I could not complete the Ark without filing an environmental impact statement on your proposed flood. They didn't take very kindly to the idea that they had no jurisdiction over the conduct of the Creator of the universe.

Then the Army Engineers demanded a map of the proposed new flood plain. I sent them a globe.

Right now, I am trying to resolve a complaint filed with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission that I am practicing discrimination by not taking godless, unbelieving people aboard.

The IRS has seized my assets, claiming that I'm building the Ark in preparation to flee the country to avoid paying taxes.

I just got a notice from the state that I owe them some kind of user tax and failed to register the Ark as a "recreational water craft."

Finally, the ACLU got the courts to issue an injunction against further construction of the Ark, saying that since God is flooding the earth, it is a religious event and therefore, unconstitutional.

I really don't think I can finish the Ark for another five or six years." Noah wailed.

The sky began to clear, the sun began to shine and the seas began to calm. A rainbow arched across the sky. Noah looked up hopefully. "You mean You are not going to destroy the earth Lord?"

"No," said the Lord sadly. "I don't have to. The government already has." _____

Ways of man, baby...

-- Emerald (emerald1@cox.net), December 13, 2002.


Emerald,

Very creative thinking !!! I give you 100 out of 100. Enjoy buddy.

Peace

-- Xavier (crusaders_warship@yahoo.com), December 14, 2002.


Hey Xavier; I should have said it but didn't; that's not mine. It has been floating around for a while and I don't know who the author is.

-- Emerald (emerald1@cox.net), December 14, 2002.

*sigh* This argument never ceases to amaze me. If there IS a God and He throws you in Hell then He's a monster. That is such a load of rubbish. Number one, God doesn't send you to Hell...YOU send you to Hell. By your acts, by your words, by your deeds, etc. Number two~think of it this way....did our parents not punish us when we were children? Are we not punished by our bosses as adults if our work performance is not up to par? Does the government not punish us if we don't pay our taxes? And by the same token, are we not rewarded by the same said entities when we do good? When our parents would punish us for wrong behaviour, did it mean they did not love us at all? They may not have liked our actions but it didn't mean they didn't love us. But they still had to punish us. As God is our Father, so too must He punish us for our misdeeds. And we will also be rewarded in Heaven by the good we do on this Earth.

-- Jackiea (sorry@dontlikespam.com), December 14, 2002.

Jackiea, very good explaination.

I would like to add God can't accept you into his presence if you are a sinner. God is so holy he cannot even look upon sin. So if you are a sinner God just can't take you. He has made it possible for you to be reborn though and given a new spiritual life.

The bible clearly states that God prepared a place for the devil and his angels. It also says that anyone who sins will also go to that place. It is completely unholy to judge God as a monster for giving you what you yourself have earned. Don't forget Jesus Christ took your punishment. He took our punishment for us. So God is not a monster.

It really isn't possible to know what Hell will be like for its residents exactly. We know that is will last forever. We also know that it will be quite unpleasant. Revelation says 'there is no rest day or night for anyone who is in the lake of fire.' 'they will be tormented forever.'That pretty much sums it up. We also know we don't have to worry about it as long as we are grounded in the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Peace

nice noah's ark thing

-- robert (4twells@verizon.net), December 14, 2002.



Dear Robert,

Agreed - in essence. However, a couple of points, which may be semantics more than anything else, or may represent actual differences in belief ...

First, while it is indeed possible through Jesus Christ to be born again and receive a new spiritual life, those who do so are still sinners. Those who accept Him as Lord - and live as though they accepted Him - can receive spiritual healing, and turn away from serious sin, refusing to be mastered by it. But, every human being is a sinner until the day he/she dies - those who accept Christ and those who do not.

Secondly, though Jesus did take our guilt and punishment upon Himself, and offers the fruits of that salvific act to every human person, we ourselves must actively accept that offer, or it will have no effect in our lives. If we choose to maintain a hold on our guilt and punishment, then He will not force salvation upon us, and we will indeed experience the fullness of punishment, from which we could have been saved. Salvation is a free gift. It cannot be earned or merited. But like any gift, it must be both freely offered and freely accepted before it really becomes a gift.

Peace, Paul

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 15, 2002.


I live on the (Purgarory River) River of the Souls Lost In Purgatory.

We are the muses of the righteous races.

Here were extinguished the righteous races of angels. Murdered by the mtutants who made dwarves of the Spanish Armada.

http://profiles.yahoo.com/leouna

-- Rita Hill von Habsburg (leouna@yahoo.com), December 15, 2002.

Of all the types that come and go, I confess, Rita has a corner on the market of the mysterious.

-- Emerald (emerald1@cox.net), December 15, 2002.

Back to the topic - did anyone hear the news byte re: the memorial service for the late Rosemary Clooney? Her nephew (George) said that he was sure she was performing in a terrific concert up in - Purgatory! Everyone laughed, and he added that Rosemary had always said, "If you live your life, you're gonna spend time in Purgatory."

I suspect she was kidding - hopefully no one really thinks there's a conflict between "living your life" and going to heaven! ;-) (R.I.P., Rosie!)

-- Christine L. :-) (christine_lehman@hotmail.com), December 16, 2002.


You guys are starting to sound like I feel, tired and ready for bed! Love, Theresa

-- Theresa Huether (Rodntee4Jesus@aol.com), December 17, 2002.


I read the obit about Rosie. (one of my favorite singers). Her funeral was conducted with a Traditional Mass.

-- ed Richards (loztra@yahoo.com), December 31, 2002.

MICHAEL,Hell is the earth. So we are in hell now.Purgatory is a place where nonbelievers wonder around aimlessly.The people who do not believe in the lord on this planet wonder around aimlessly.So i am saying that the earth is indeed hell and we are all in it right now (like it or not)and those who believe there is not a lord are in purgator.Please give me your thoughts on what i just said. I have alot to learn as well and I may be wrong,after all we are in hell. A FEW THOUGHTS:Yes we are all sinners,thats how we got here(earth=hell).Yes you are reborn;into heaven or to hell(earth) it is your choice.If this is not hell,then nothing makes scents.If this is hell then it all makes scents.Remember the bible was not translated properly(either knowingly or unknowingly)after all we are in hell and this stuff is going to happen all the time. Thanks for giving me a place to share my thoughts RAN

-- Ran (ran47@suscom.net), January 13, 2003.

One thing the scriptures tell us repeatedly about hell is that it is FOREVER. That fact alone takes earth out of the running for the location of hell. Nothing we could ever experience on earth could come close to hell. No matter how bad it gets here, there is always some chance things might improve. In hell, there is never any chance that things will get better. We know that our earthly suffering will eventually end. Those in hell know that their suffering will never end. Even the worst criminals on earth have some positive aspects to their lives. Hitler liked to raise roses. Even terrorists have some camaraderie with their fellow terrorists. In spite of their hatred, they can still enjoy good food, drink, warm sunshine, a good night's rest, a hot shower. Even something as perverse as destroying innocent people can bring them some kind of "pleasure". In hell, there is absolutely no pleasure, nothing to enjoy. Only ugliness, horror, despair and hatred. Hatred for those closest to you. Hatred for God. Hatred for yourself. The worst day any human being has ever experienced on earth is a picnic compared to hell. That's why Our Lord warned us so strongly and so often about that place, and gave us such reliable directions for avoiding it.

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), January 13, 2003.

I agree with you , Paul, except for the word forever. There was no hell in the beginning. There will be no hell in the end. Only Yahveh or God will decide when the time is right.

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonzalez@srla.org), January 13, 2003.

Dear Elpidio,

You are quite right about hell not existing in the beginning. Nothing existed in the beginning but God Himself. Hell was created. However, you are very wrong about hell disappearing "in the end". The scriptures are clear about the fact that hell, like heaven, is forever. In fact, if hell were not forever, then earthly life would be essentially meaningless, since everyone would end up in heaven, and nothing we did or neglected to do during this life could have any effect on the final outcome. If we are all on the way to heaven, and there is nothing we can do to change that, then why didn't God just create us there? Why make us go through this silly, meaningless charade first? Among the passages which reveal the finality of hell are these:

Matthew 25:46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life".

Jude 1:7 "... since they in the same way indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, they are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire".

Peace! Paul

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), January 13, 2003.


Yes, Paul, but, this Earth will not exist forever. One day it will not be here anymore. So those who followed God will join him. Those in Purgatory who repented will join him, but those in Hell will disappear from the face of creation. Forever in Hebrew doesn't mean forever in either English or Spanish. It's a combination of words, one of which is Olam = universe. So here, then, forever is linked to creation, once earth disappears, then Hell disappears.

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonzalez@srla.org), January 13, 2003.

Dear Elpidio,

Spirits cannot "disappear from the face of creation". They are immortal. Death is a function of the body. Spirits have no body to die. WHERE spirits will spend eternity is the only question, not IF they will spend it.

Paul

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), January 13, 2003.


Paul, I appreciate your responce.I dont believe anyone can say that they know,without a doubt,what the bible says.When you say things have a chance to improve on earth.I would like to point out that death will always be around us.I believe earth(hell)will be destroyed sometime. Also,I would like to bring up reincarnation(stay with me here)It could be that you are reborn into heaven or hell pending who and what you are.Reincarnation was a real thing in the beginning(look into it) thanks Ran

-- Ran (Ran47@suscom.net), January 15, 2003.

Dear Ran,

Yes, earth will most certainly be destroyed at some point, along with the rest of the universe. But, as the passages I offered above clearly indicate, hell (which is not part of the universe) is forever.

I assure you I have already thoroughly "looked into" the matter of reincarnation, and have found it to be a pagan belief, condemned by the Church from the beginning, and contradicting the scriptures, which tell us a man dies but once, and is then judged (Hebrews 9:27). That doesn't leave much room for multiple births and deaths by an individual.

Peace! Paul

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), January 15, 2003.


Paul, the bible speaks of a new Heaven and new Earth. It also says that the new Jerusalem descends from the sky upon the Earth. My thought is that this shows God's home and mans home become one. Divinity mingled with humanity. Not that Heaven and earth would be separated. I think God's intention would have been to have them together. Thoughts ?

-- Oliver Fischer (spicenut@excite.com), January 15, 2003.

Dear Oliver,

"The day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. (2 Peter 3:10) I think that says it all. The universe will cease to exist. (I'm assuming that you understand that "the heavens" here refers to created space - planets, stars, etc. - that part of the universe outside the earth.)

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), January 15, 2003.


Sorry if I spell anything wrong, English is my second language. I for one believe hell will be destoryed in the end. Being in a place of torment can certainly seem like forever to those who dwell there. It is the merciful thing to do, even to those unjust. If such a place were to be destroyed this would also be a place of "no hope". I also beleive reincarnation. Children die everyday. For fairness, do they not deserve a second chance at life? Many have died without making a choice between life through Jesus Christ and death. I feel there are three reasons why God does not stop the death and destruction of this world. First, a man's life is very short compared to an eternity. Second, everything that has happened so far in this world could have been prevented by man in the first place, this is why the Lord hath given us arms. Third, many people are hypocrites praying instead of solving problems. The Bible is written by man, inspired by God. The Bible is however complete in that it serves it's intended purpous of making men aware. Have you ever considered the fact that the Bible was made to make men courous? This absoulution will allow the Bible to exist in our hearts and minds forever. No one should have the same faith as no ones heart are the same. However, many hearts can join for the same purpous. This is what makes ones faith genuine. Any thoughts?

-- Gevai Haithiv (mybizmail@blazemail.com), December 31, 2003.

Thanks, Gevai. --But you are completely wrong. It happens in the best of families. Happy New Year!

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), December 31, 2003.

Gevai,
Good morning, well it is morning my time anyway… here are my thoughts on your note:

I agree with you that most of the problems on this earth were caused and preventable by mankind. We must work to improve our world. Prayer is also very productive and should not be discounted. Ora et Labora (prayer and work) was the motto of St. Benedict. Another motto of his was ‘all in moderation’. Both are very good mottos for our time.

As for children and fairness, Christ taught that the innocent will go to the Father, to heaven and eternal bliss. That is much better than another period of earthly pain. So it is much better to allow them to go to their Father in Heaven.

Even though the Bible was set down by man, in a number of instances and in the New Testament especially, we know that there was an oral tradition by the disciples to remember what Christ actually said and to pass along to us His teachings. Christ is God so He is really the only one in a position to know the truth about the things you are talking about. Christ specifically said Hell was eternal, not something that will be destroyed. This is the “sad and lamentable reality of eternal death”.

The Church teaches the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire." The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs. (Paragraph 1035 of the Catechism).

There is no reincarnation. Death is the end of man's earthly pilgrimage, of the time of grace and mercy which God offers him so as to work out his earthly life in keeping with the divine plan, and to decide his ultimate destiny. When "the single course of our earthly life" is completed, we shall not return to other earthly lives: "It is appointed for men to die once." There is no "reincarnation" after death. (Paragraph 1013 of the Catechism). Just as it is appointed that human beings die once, and after this the judgment [Hebrews 9:27]

My thoughts

In Christ,
Bill



-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45@Hotmail.com), December 31, 2003.


"Ora et labora" does not mean "prayer and work" -- two nouns.

It means, "Pray and work!" -- two imperative verbs, a command to a monk.

-- (St@Benedict.com), December 31, 2003.


It means, "Pray and work!" -- two imperative verbs, a command to a monk.

OK, whoever you are (why be anonymous about this of all things?)

Anyway, good advice.

In Christ,
Bill



-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45@hotmail.com), December 31, 2003.


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