Hello,

I'm 31 years old and a Catholic. My 25-year old wife (whom I love dearly) and have been married in the Catholic church for 2 years and 4 months... has just left me in november and wants a divorce.

Her email said that she doesn't love me anymore and that divorce has been on her mind for a year now. She says we are too different from each other and that she can never be an accomplished woman staying with me.

I have reason to believe that some other man is in her life now... ever since she started her new night job at the university in the last two months she has been quite cold and distant to me.

She told me she had reservations about our union even before we got married. I would like to get an annulment on the grounds that she had reservations about our union before and on our Wedding day... and that if things didn;t work out divorce was always an option for her in her mind. My oath was -- and still is -- for life; for better or for worse, richer or poorer, sickness and health.

The thing is, she tells me that this marriage was for life for her. But that she's just a "weak woman and a sinner". She told me she would like to move on with her life, even though it means breaking up our sacred Catholic marriage -- and have a family with someone else.

She has no desire to go to marriage counseling or work out our differences and doesn't even want to talk with me anymore other than by email.

Do I have any grounds if she says it was for life? Can I prove somehow that it wasn't? The factthat she doesn't want to go to even try to work things up between us (with counseling) and that divorce has been on her mind for a year now... isn't that some kind of grounds or intent to deceive?

I have never cheated on my wife, abused her in any way, or done anything else for her to do this to me .. although we did have financial problems and some personal differences. But every couple has those. I am deeply hurt and distressed by her decision. I can't believe she's left our marriage so easily. I would do anything to fix things up between us. She told me she is the "bad one" in all this and said I should try to get an anullment from her and that I deserve one.

I'm also wondering if the fact that we've only been married for 2 years with this person and that we don't have any kids together.. does that help my case and make it easier to get an annulment?

Sincerely,

Robert

-- Robert P (robertp234@hotmail.com), December 22, 2002

Answers

Hello Robert,

you certainly have my sympathies and prayers, over the extremly difficult time you are going through. I strongly suggest you pray a great deal, that you wife will change her heart and come back to you, even though I think that is unlikely she will. She has closed herself off from your's and God's influence in her life, and those are the hardest cases to see a positive result from. Any prayers you say, will give you strength in this whole matter, even if you wife never comes back to you.

It's also understandable that you have great anger over this situation, as a HUGE injustice has been done against you. Anytime you feel anger towards your wife, offer her up to God and ask God to bless her. By doing that on a regular bases, it will help you to get over the anger, and think clearly. Satan likes to use situations like this to stir anger within us, and when he sees good coming out of the anger that he is tempting you with, he will leave and not bother you this way.

It sounds to me you might have grounds for an annulment, but we here cannot be sure. The process is a long one, so talk to a priest about starting the process.

You should talk to a priest anyway, to get guidance on this whole matter, in how to deal with the emotions that you are going through with.

God bless you.

-- Gordon (gvink@yahoo.com), December 22, 2002.

Robert, my heart goes out to you. It sound like your situation is very similar to mine. I too have been married for just over two years. My wife stopped loving me shortly after our marriage, never talks to me, never touches me, and is always threatening me with divorce. All I can do is tell you what I've chosen to do. First I must ask you if you believe that marriage is a sacriment. The Sacriment of Holy Matrimony leaves a perminant mark on the soul. When you get married, you are given a special gift of grace that cannot be taken away, thus the indissolubility of marriage. I have dicided that I will not seek a divorce from my wife, even if I am forced to live a celibate life. I took vows that said that I would love and honor her forever, no matter what. I thank God for this oppertunity to suffer, and pray for my wife daily. I strive to always set a good example for her to learn from. She will not let me teach her with words, so I try to teach her by love. It is the only right thing to do. If some day she decides to divorce me against my will, then I will seek an annulment. You have to be divorced before you can get an annulment. And it's not an automatic. The bishop might say no. Then you would have to live a celibate life, unless your wife came back to you.

I hope this gives you plenty of reason to fight for your marriage until the end. God did not say it would be easy, but He did promise to give you the graces you need to get through any trial.

God bless you, and good luck. I will say a prayer for you as soon as this is submitted.

-- Tom (tjb2_99@yahoo.com), December 22, 2002.

Hi Tom. I'm looking at your post here and I have to say how impressed I am to see someone with such a painful cross to carry handle it in such a graceful spirit. While my heart goes out to you, my admiration goes out even stronger; it is a response to pain like yours that brings people to God.

-- Emerald (emerald1@cox.net), December 22, 2002.

Hi Tom,

I am so inspired and uplifted by all the responses to my post here! You are all truly wonderful people who I already feel a great connection with! Thank you!

Tom, YES, I believe with all my heart and soul that marriage is a sacred sacrament instituted by God… and that no human being (or thing) can or should break up this Holy union between two people and their Creator for their time here on earth. I told my wife how important and sacred the sacrament of marriage was for me before we got married. And that under no circumstances would “divorce” ever enter into my mind once I was married. I thought she felt the same way, otherwise I would never have married her.

Tom, I feel the same way as you about marriage. And I commend you for your faith and for bearing this difficult cross of yours.

If I do not get an annulment (which is a possibility) I will never remarry and remain celibate for the rest of my life – as hard as that will be. I haven’t given up hope on our marriage, though.. She might still come back to me. I feel, as you mentioned, that I must keep fighting for our marriage. I pray the rosary every day and ask that my wife has a change of heart and that she comes back to me… but I also understand and say to God and the Virgin Mary that if it is God’s will that this happen to me (for the good of my eternal soul and the reparation of sins) then I must accept it and use this as a chance to gain merit and for spiritual growth.

God Bless,

Thanks again for your post, Tom. You are in my prayers,

Robert

-- Robert P (robertp234@hotmail.com), December 22, 2002.

Hi Emerald and Gordon,

Thank you for your responses!

You're right Gordon, I must not be angry with my wife for leaving me. I have forgiven her in my heart, as hard as that may be. But I still pray for her to come back.

I am a changed person since this has horrible tragedy has happened to me. For one thing I am alone all the time which has given me the chance to reflect upon the meaning of life and on our true purpose here on earth. I have few friends. My only friend and solace has been prayer, the rosary, and the book “Imitation of Christ” – which I have been reading every day since last month (and never have before). What an incredible book! I'm sure it can lead any soul to heaven if it’s simple (yet often difficult) message is followed.

The one good thing that has happened to me amidst this tragedy is this: it has made me realize how flawed human love really is -- and how placing our faith in the things of this world (which will pass us by and moths will destroy) can never bring us TRUE and lasting happiness. All is vain in this world and living for it will only lead to disappointment without God. I truly believe this now more than ever. I didn't so much a onth ago. The only way to be truly free is to renounce this world and everything it has to offer and live for the next, believing all the while in His promise of eternal life.

Because of this tragedy I am experiencing of my wife leaving me, I am seriously contemplating leading a religious life. I read the summary of the life of ST, Francis of Assisi (which you can read for free on this wonderful world of the Internet) and tears overflowed from my eyes after I read the story. What a humble soul! How St. Francis, for example, was happily willing to die to himself completely and give everything he had to the poor… No tribulation was too great for him to suffer for the love of Christ and the promise of eternal Heaven. What faith… I feel like a selfish unfaithful sinner who is complaining for nothing about my wife leaving me compared to these great saints and what they happily endured.. I am still too attached to the things of this world!

I was wondering... if I do not get an annulment, can I, a divorced person, be allowed to join some sort of Order and lead a religious life of poverty, chastity, and obedience?

Thank you all,

Sincerely,

Robert

-- Robert P (robertp234@hotmail.com), December 22, 2002.

Robert and Tom,

you guys are my heroes!

I will certainly keep both of you, and your wives in my prayers. I will pray a novena for your marriages.

I strongly suggest you both pray The Fifty-four Day Rosary Novena to Our Lady, which you can read about here: 54 Day Rosary Novena You should both pray this together on the same days, and for each other's marriage. I have witnessed Our Lady's powerful action through this novena.

I'm sorry you both are going through this, as I know by a recent breakup with a girlfriend, who I loved, how painful it can be, and yet your pain is far greater, since you are married. You are certainly a good example to all men, in an age when most men are so dishonorable.

May the Sacred Heart of Jesus bless you both.

-- Gordon (gvink@yahoo.com), December 22, 2002.

In an age when people are so bold in asking for business, I will be bold in asking for good. Who will join me in praying a novena over the next 9 days for these two guys marriages? I suggest we pray the novena of your own choice, but all pray for the same intention, and on the same days, starting on Dec 23rd, and finishing on Dec 31st. Thank you for all those who decide to join me. All is done for the glory of God!

-- Gordon (gvink@yahoo.com), December 22, 2002.

Robert, Tom, for lack of a more graceful way to express it, you guys rock.

"I am a changed person since this has horrible tragedy has happened to me. For one thing I am alone all the time which has given me the chance to reflect upon the meaning of life and on our true purpose here on earth. I have few friends. My only friend and solace has been prayer, the rosary, and the book “Imitation of Christ”"

That's it right there; that's the essence of salvation. Count me in Gordon.

-- Emerald (emerald1@cox.net), December 22, 2002.

Hello, Robert.

I join with everyone else in an expression of admiration for the way that you are carrying your heavy cross. After reading Tom's similar message yesterday, I must say that this "double witness" takes my breath away and makes me ashamed of my grousing about minuscule problems.

Gordon, I will make an effort to join in the novena you are promoting. A very good friend recently sent me a beautiful fold-out card containing the efficacious novena prayers to "Our Lady of Good Remedy."

Robert, you asked: "I was wondering... if I do not get an annulment, can I, a divorced person, be allowed to join some sort of Order and lead a religious life of poverty, chastity, and obedience?"

The answer is "No." You got married in a Catholic wedding ceremony. To the Church, a divorce is just a sort of permanent ceremony. It does not end your marriage, in God's eyes. (If you really are married, nothing short of death can end that.) A religious order or congregation could not accept a man who may still be married, in God's eyes.

So, if you are never able to be reconciled with your wife, and if a divorce does happen, you may attain the greatest peace of mind by asking the Church to determine if you really were or not married in the first place. If the tribunal declares that you were not married, you would be free to (1) really get married some day -- or (2) to enter consecrated/religious life -- or (3) to remain single and in the world. However, you would not be required to seek a Declaration of Nullity unless you were to decide to follow path #2.

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), December 22, 2002.

I thank you all, so very much, for your prayers. Of course I will join the Novena. This was a very good idea. I need to keep the Blessed Virgin close to my heart; especially in light of my wifes recent attacks on her. I was ironning the 'Our Lady of Guadalupe' image onto a t-shirt when my wife asked me "how many shirts do you need with her on them"? I told her that she didn't have to hate Mary, just because I love her. She said that she didn't hate her, but her words and actions show otherwise. Later the same day, I was telling my wife that I pray for our marriage every day. She answered "well, you're praying to the wrong people. Praying to those saints isn't doing you any good." As you can imagine, I was deeply hurt by this; but, of course, that is why she said it.

So, Robert, when we start to cave-in to self pitty, we need to keep in mind how many of our Blessed Mother's children do not even acknowledge her. She is the Mother of all Christians, even those who hate her. Millions of her children slander her name, not realizing that when they do, they also slander her Son.

I hope everyone who visits this string will offer the Novena with us; starting 12/23/02 through 12/31/02. What a way to bring in the new year! I never brought in a new year with Our Lady before. Seems perfectly appropriate concidering that our Holy Father has designated this year 'The Year of the Rosary'.

God bless you all,

-- Tom (tjb2_99@yahoo.com), December 23, 2002.

Hello Everyone,

Thank you, thank you... I feel very fortunate to have such a great group of people come together here and pray Novenas on the same days for us. Wow, how luck Tom and I are! Group prayer is especially powerful... and who knows what amazing things will come out of this -- for all of us!

Thank you again!

Sincerely,

Robert

-- robert (robertp234@hotmail.com), December 23, 2002.

Do everyone a favor, Tom & Robert, bump the thread every so often to remind people people of the novena.

-- Emerald (emerald1@cox.net), December 23, 2002.

topping for the novena

-- (_@_._), December 24, 2002.

If I do not get an annulment (which is a possibility) I will never remarry and remain celibate for the rest of my life

All right, up until I've held my tongue. I didn't even comment on the "why women can be priests" thread. This, however, is just to much. I mean, did you actually just write that? Your 31! You not even half dead and your ready to throw away the rest of your life because some chick doesn't want you? Find another one! Took me 3 weeks to get my current girl friend, I could get her to marry me within the year. Also, you have no children. Don't you ever want any? I can't tell you how to run your life but just think this whole thing over before you decided on changing your life. Want an annulment? There really easy to get! Just go around the Catholic church! Call up a lawyer and for a few hundred you can be divorced. After you get it pray for forgiveness. You sound like a good person, gOD should forgive you. You could also just convert to another, Christian based religion. They all offer pretty much the same eternal salvation thing and besides, Catholics are notoriously quick to damn. If you really want to go nuts you could even convert to a non-Christain based religion. Somthing where you can have 30 wives or somthing. =P

Good luck in the future.

-- kzk (_@_._), December 26, 2002.

Hi kzk; what you say... I can understand why you say what you say. It is a worldly wisdom which seems to make perfect sense really, and the way you said it hit my humorous side.

However, if you follow that worldly wisdom through, which is actually what most people do, it ends in death and selfishness and love- lessness. To break the cycle of destruction, which I'm pretty sure you can see in families around you and in society as a whole, some brave individuals must break the norm and routine, and stand ground on principle, even if it requires self sacrifice beyond what seems reasonable, sane or normal.

I can certainly appreciate that this may appear absurd, but if you pursue it, there is truth in it which touches the very foundations of creation.

-- Emerald (emerald1@cox.net), December 26, 2002.

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-- (hidden@soci.ety), December 27, 2002.

I am embarrassed at a silly mistake I made in my post of the 22nd. I wrote:
"You got married in a Catholic wedding ceremony. To the Church, a divorce is just a sort of permanent ceremony."
I accidentally repeated the word "ceremony" at the end of the second sentence, which was supposed to end with "permanent separation."
JFG

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), December 27, 2002.

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-- (fhf@kgk.cbv), December 28, 2002.

Hi all!

John, in response to Robert's query you wrote, "If the tribunal declares that you were not married, you would be free to (1) really get married some day -- or (2) to enter consecrated/religious life -- or (3) to remain single and in the world. However, you would not be required to seek a Declaration of Nullity unless you were to decide to follow path #2." Didn't you really mean to say, "...you would not be required to seek a Declaration of Nullity unless you were to decide to follow path #1&2"? Wouldn't Robert require a Declaration of Nullity to get married some day?

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all!

-- Ed Lauzon (grader@accglobal.net), December 28, 2002.

A blessed Christmas to you too, Ed. Nice to see you back at the forum.

And thanks for your correction to my blunder! You are right that nullity must be declared for a future marriage to take place. I hope that Robert sees this exchange of ours. (Maybe it will go out to him via e-mail.) I don't know how I slipped like that, unless it was the fact that I had only Robert's possible future interest in religious life on my mind.

God bless you.
John

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), December 29, 2002.

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-- (yyy@ttt.lll), December 29, 2002.

Thank you, John. I was so grateful for your answer to my question that I did not notice any blunder either.

Happy New Year!

Sincerely,

Robert

-- Robert (robertp234@hotmail.com), December 29, 2002.

toptptptp top

-- (jtjt@kktj.bmn), December 30, 2002.

Happy New Year to you too, Robert.
I continue to remember you and Tom in our novena. JFG

-- (jfgecik@Hotmail.com), December 31, 2002.

Hello,

For those of you who decided to join in on our Novena for Tom and I's marriages from Dec.22-Dec.29 -- Thank You so much!!! And thanks to you Gordon, for initiating this Novena. All of you have been very wonderful in your comments and advice.

Thanks again and God bless.

Sincerely,

Robert P

-- Robert P (robertp234@hotmail.com), January 04, 2003.

You're welcome, Robert. I realize now that I kept praying past the nine days. Maybe the extra days were for my own daily conversion from sin.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), January 04, 2003.

Let us know Robert and Tom, if our prayers were fruitful when things improve. God bless, and please say a prayer for me that God lets me know what I should do in relation to the girl I am currently seeing, and that God blesses our relationship.

You guys might also consider praying to Saint Therese of Lisieux everyday, asking her to send a rose from heaven to your mate. She is a wonderful saint!

-- Gordon (gvink@yahoo.com), January 05, 2003.

my friend, god loves you, deeply like a whirlpool spiralling through your infinite essence. you have a precious gift, your life, your health, your concience and your happyness. we need to have a friend or two in this path, maybe one will come along that really wants to hold your hand untill the end, to kiss you last before god kisses your return to his forever love. you return with your life story and god feels this, was it pain, was it anger, was it joy, was it love? In this day, when perhaps more than ever, words and talk have no relation to truth, vows become temporary, and empty. your vows were to god, to love and honor, and to hopefully give birth to further generations of decent human beings. you havent broken your vows, you deserve to open yourself up, to become a vehicle for someones vows, vows ultimately to God. move with love and faith, be good to the world, which includes yourself, God will understand.

-- chappy rufouser (myskul@earthlink.net), March 22, 2003.